Can I beat the MB frost line parka ?

Dan,
The sleeves are long and will easily pull over my hand, as I wanted. With a mid weight fleece, I'm guessing the size medium with 1" shorter sleeves would still fit someone our size.

There is a fabric flap running behind the length of the zipper.

I saw the Mirage online at Campsaver and with a code from prolite it was $247..

Just too close to the Frost Line price for me, and definitely better than the Patagonia Fitz Roy price. I will just sell my Alpine Light and thinner Montbell UL down guide Parka (JP version of Frost Smoke Parka, just a bit lighter).

edit: prolite20 for 20% off for those interested (also other items at Campsaver).

Thanks Kevin, much appreciated.

Ito: The Mirage is a great deal for 20% off ($247). For a jacket with high end fabrics and 900 FP down that's a crazy good price. It's too bad stock seems to be dwindling for a lot of Montbell stuff. The Frost Line was also on sale at 20% off (Backcountry.com) but they sold out in a couple days. With the sale, it was $175.

Dan:
Agree great deals to be had – if you can find the items or sizes.

As an aside, just out of interest I mailed Patagonia about the Fitz Roy Parka a couple of days ago.

I got a reply this morning saying that the jacket has 113gr. for men's, and 109gr. for the women's version.

When I mailed back that I had asked for the weight in the hooded Parka, I got a quote of 181gr. for the men's parka, and 150gr. for the women.

Quite a big difference for the jacket vs the parka.

…

Dan,

I've spoken extensively with patagonia about both the previous and new (2014) Fitz Roy.

I have the prior Fitz Roy Parka and its 183g grams of down for a size large. The jacket weighs about 23 ozs and has a lot features, like pockets (chest, inside security, inside mesh, and fleece lined hand warmers). It is box baffled. The new Fitz Roy has 200 gram of down and is also box baffled and a lot of the same design features as the Encapsil parka but with some slight differences- down and fabric used. This is for a size large.

I use the Fitz roy for when it's colder than 25 degrees… It isn't as warm as the permafrost, MHW sub zero, or the encapsil

Thanks Babak. I assume the 200g of down for the 2014 Fitz Roy is also for size large? It seems that the fill of the Fitz Roy (7oz for size large) is very comparable to the Frost Line (6.7oz for medium), as is the total weight. If only the price was comparable…

Backcountry.com quickly sold out of the Frost Line during their 20% off sale, but they're occasionally adding a tiny bit of inventory (returns?). 2 days ago they added a medium, which I was able to buy for $175. Right now I see there's one small in stock. So it's worth monitoring that site if someone is after a Frost Line.

Another jacket worth mentioning is the GoLite Roan Plateau. It's available in L and XL in Golite.com's going out of business sale. It's the same weight as the Frost Line (19.7oz) but with a bit less fill (5.8oz) and sewn thru construction. The main draw here is that the price at $159 and potentially dropping further as the sale progresses. The wrist gators are neat too.

Dan, Patagonia typically reports specs for size medium.

Dan you lucky dog, I couldn't find a medium at BC.com. Had to pay a little more for one elsewhere. Still should be worth the money. Coming in today, hope it fits correctly.

jimmyb

My Frost Line Parka showed up from Backcountry.com, so I can add a few initial impressions.

Fit
I'm a hair under 6'0 and 165 lbs. I ordered a medium after vacillating between medium or large. I'm really happy with the fit. Montbell stuff is usually pretty short in the torso and semi-short in the sleeves, so if you're a slimmer person you end up needing to size up to an oversized torso to get tolerable torso and sleeve lengths. The Frost Line is a much different cut, as Montbell claims.

The sleeves are nice and long. They naturally rest at 1/2 way down my fingers, which is what I want for a parka. The torso is way long for a Montbell garment but only normal or slightly short of normal in the parka world. The rear length is good, it's the typical mid-butt length you'd expect for a parka. The front rises higher so it's maybe an inch short of ideal but far better than most other Montbell products. My Montbell Alpine Light Parka was much shorter front and rear (and in the sleeves) despite being a size large.

The torso girth a good fit. It's a little big if I've just got a t-shirt under, so it fits nicely over a fleece or lightweight down jacket. If I was in the market for a urban-hipster down jacket I'd probably go size small to get a slimmer torso while still having decent sleeve and torso length.

Weight
My medium weighs in at 575g (20.2oz) which is 0.5oz over spec. Hopefully that's from extra down.

Critiques
The zipper snags easily on the draft flap. The draft flap isn't a down filled tube, but rather a few layers of soft fabric with seemingly a bit of down trapped in there. The fabric is the same light nylon as the rest of the jacket, so it's not stiff. Montbell should add a stiffener and/or position the flap so it attaches back a bit further from the zipper. The way it's positioned, it's begging to be snagged.

Comments
It's a bit warmer than I expected. It's a big step up in warmth over my Montbell Alpine Light Parka. It's should be ideal for most winter use and then I'll layer another warm piece under when it's really cold. For stupid cold weather you'd want something else. Overall I'm quite pleased with it, mostly because it fits well which Montbell has traditionally struggled with.

The hood is large, but cinches down well with good coverage. It seems like it'll stay in place well on windy summits. I personally prefer not to have a helmet compatible hood, but as far as helmet compatible hoods go, this one is good.

I'll likely take the sewing machine and scissors to this jacket sooner rather than later. I've never been a big advocate for zipper draft flaps, particularly poorly executed ones. Even with a good flap I find the function barely warrants the weight. Since this one snags, I'll probably nix it assuming I can find a way to do so elegantly. I'm also leaning towards removing some internal features. I almost never use internal stash pockets, and I will never use the smaller zippers pockets attached to these. If memory serves, the stash pockets aren't integrated with the external hand pockets, so the inner pockets can be removed without losing the outer ones. I might shave an ounce. Not a big difference but I like a simple jacket. I'll also probably color the white Montbell sitched on logo with a sharpie so it's not an eye sore on the dark navy.

Suggestions
Mostly this comes down to just making a good jacket lighter, but functionally Montbell should make the front an inch longer and fix the zipper draft flap.

In terms of weight, Montbell trimmed a lot of fat off the Frost Line (4-6oz?) for the 2014/15 version, but they could go a little further. I'd like to see at least the internal zipper pockets nixed. I'd also like to see the use of lighter fabric internally. 30D outside and 10D inside would be great. Switching to higher FP down would be sweet, but that would raise the price and make it too similar to the Mirage. More practically, Montbell should switch to smaller cordlocks. The waist cordlocks in particular are overly beefy considering they'll likely be adjusted initially and then very infrequently after that.

"The zipper snags easily on the draft flap."

YES. Took a few tries, but I found a technique that allows an easy zip with no snags.

Ryan

Very cool to hear some thoughts on it. Sounds like the fit is quite a big improvement – I am a tiny bit taller and tiny bit lighter than you and have similar fit experience with Montbell. I like that they made the hood helmet compatible and the inner stow pockets. If your climbing it is a great place to store some snacks/rewarm your gloves. But if I'd never use it I'd cut it out as well.

I'm not sure about higher FP down for a parka like this. I always thought that the 900FP down would be more humidity sensitive, turning that 900 effectively into 850/800 kind of down. Not sure that is true or not, and if it matters at temperatures/climates the Frost Line is aimed at.
Any thoughts on that?

Regardless, sounds like a very good jacket, incredible deal for the money.

personally i think 900 fill is irrelevant in the real world conditions compared to 800 fill … and in the rainy season in the PNW perhaps even compared to 700 fill

Ryan Jordan
( ryan – BPL STAFF – M)

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=39920

of course this might not apply to the new DWR down … for which there is a distinct lack of proper tests published like the above (hint hint BPL)

the other thing is that many of us are mesmerized by the down fill power, and to a degree even the amount of down … but ignore the importance of fit

a snugger fit is generally better

one of my climbing partners has a westbomb kokanee with 850 EU fill power down … and a cheap MH sub zero with 650 fill down … the sub zero is warmer simply because it has a snugger fit

of course for belays you might not want a snug fit if its going over yr softshell/hardsell, etc …

another classic example is some folks finding the snug atom lt warmer (providing its not too windy) than the boxy fitting nanopuff despite the atom lt having fleece panels … simply because of the snugger fit

IMO it takes a decent amount of extra fill power and down to make up for a loose fit

;)

Eric – it is interesting that you write that. I guess it also depends on your locale / weather then (Japan is very humid as well).

I just tried on a Montura Summit Duvet. Not sure but I think it is 700 or 750FP. Quite some of it, but not outrageous. It's a puffy of course, but certainly not as bulky as many other ones. Yet it was the warmest feeling jacket I have ever tried on. Definitely warmer than the Permafrost or Fitz Roy which were hanging a couple of meters from there.

There is this elastic interior trim in various areas to prevent heat loss while allowing for freedom of movement. You put it on and the whole thing fits snug to your whole body and arms.

Together with fleece wrist sleeves that come down well down your fingers there is no dead air in there. You are literally instantly warm/hot. It was a very different feeling. Quite amazing.

The whole thing feels more like you are putting on a thermal pro fleece and a thick down jacket at the same time. It is just down of course – hugging your body.

I wore it over shirt and it was snug and super warm. I also easily layered it over a Atom LT.

It doesn't stuff down to the size of a ping pong ball, but it is certainly smaller than bringing your house, fireplace, and blankets.

(Montura is this technical climbing brand from Italy – with lots of light but robust, not necessarily UL, climbing and racing and ski-mo oriented products).

del

I made the first round of mods to my Frost Line tonight.

I snipped out the internal stash pockets and put lighter shock cord and cord locks in the waist hem. Combined that dropped 29g (1.0oz). Most of the savings was the left stash pocket with the zippered pocket on it.

The zipper draft flap is still on there, but it might get snipped soon. I'm trying to be patient with it.

Round 2 of the mods was last night. The Zipper draft flap was either getting fixed or getting snipped. I tried sewing on some 3/4" grosgrain to the flap as a stiffener. It ended up working great. Now it's virtually impossible to snag the zipper. It's amazing. + 6 grams. BTW the draft flap appears to have a little synthetic insulation in it. The fibers coming out from a couple stitch holes didn't look like down.

I also colored in the bright white Montbell logo with a black sharpie to tone it down.

Nice job stiffening the zipper Dan, although I'm not having snagging problems at the moment I will definitely keep this in mind. As soon as I got my frost line in the wife gave it a try and I ended up getting her one too. I was able to find her size on sale still at BacKcountry. It was nice to see that Montbell's women's gear is equal in quality to the men's. Not always the case with others. The fit is great and still retains the loftiness of the men's wear despite a tiny bit less down. Now we wait for colder weather.

jimmyb

Does anyone else find the hood on the Frost Line protective but impeding peripheral view? I wish it had the ball cap drawcord that seems to be the industry standard.

From Montbell's webiste:

"WE REGRET TO INFORM THOSE INTERESTED IN THIS PRODUCT THAT DUE TO UNPRECIDENTED POPULARITY WE ARE SOLD OUT FOR THE SEASON & THE NEXT WINDOW OF NEW STOCK AVAILABILITY STARTS IN SEPTEMBER OF 2015. WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. "

Glad I got one earlier this year.

I bet the Frostline will be a $250 parka for Fall 2015.

Ryan

My newest down garment, an Eddie Bauer vest, has Down Tek DWR. I will never buy another down garment or bag without a good down DWR.

Nuf sed.

I bought a feathered friends volant for cold temps this year and I absolutely love it. All their jackets are made to order, and they gave me a free upgrade to 900 fill (instead of the default 850).

It's a bit more expensive ($409), but you get:

-totally bomb proof construction. I think it's 50D pertex sheild XT. Reinforced shoulders, outsides of arms, and hood. Not seam sealed, but it's basically waterproof unless you are in a downpour for several hours. I would not be surprised if this thing lasted 20 years.

-11oz of down (vs the 6.7 in the frost line). The thing lofts like crazy. Certain areas have more loft than others (they design it to insulate where you lose the most heat), but in general I would say about 2 – 3in of loft in every direction.

-Bomb proof hood. Your head/neck will stay warm under just about any conditions.

Ryan: The Frost Line will be $239 for 2015 (+$20)

Here’s a review of the Frost Line I wrote up on my site. Nothing really new here if you’ve read this thread, but a good synthesis of my opinions:
Into Cascadia – Frost Line Review

"Ryan: The Frost Line will be $239 for 2015 (+$20)"

I saw that. Was off by $10. :(

I wear mine 3-4 days per week when walking the dog, plus on a few trips this winter. Continues to impress.

Ryan

We are very happy with our MB frost lines as well. I think it was a great deal at the sale prices we paid last year. Looks like with some good care they should be around for a while. They are certainly coming in handy in the NE temps this year. Record snow falls, temps and wind chills. Hoping for and early spring.

jimmyb