Can I beat the MB frost line parka ?

Probably not. You can get one through Backcountry for about $170 right now which is a good deal. Free 2 day shipping too. I bought one about three weeks ago and love it. I normally wear an XL, but a Large Frost Line fits me perfectly. So pay close attention to the sizing chart. Large weighs 21oz.

Ryan

I don't have any experience with the Frost Line, but I just have been looking at a more winter oriented jacket and the Frost Line does look very good value for everything you get. Great warmth for price. You can beat it in weight with Montbell's Mirage, but at a third more money. For your case including around town use, it might not be worth it though?

I wonder if anybody has compared the Mirage and Frost Line for warmth. The Mirage has 150gr. of 900FP while the Frost Line has 190gr. of 800FP. But what about fit, cut, coverage of hood, etc. Curious how the two feel compared to each other.

Thanks Ryan and Ito. I would probably dig a little deeper for the Mirage if the primary usage was for BPing but after a total revamp of my kit I need to be a little more conservative with this purchase. A 20% off sale like Ryan mentioned will put me where I need to be. To bad Backcountry is out of smaller sizes. Got my alpine light at Campsaver for $138 on sale. Just have to wait for restocking and another sale. I like campsavers guaranty fit policy. They let me order two sizes (free shipping) and then emailed me a return UPS label for the one that didn't fit. Very cool.

jimmyb

I have the Frost Line Parka, I haven't used it in the cold yet as its not cold enough here in Arizona for another month (even in the mountains at 10-12k ft). The construction is high quality as always with Montbell. I am 5'9" tall and 170lbs and the medium fits perfectly. I think it will be a perfect jacket for in the teens to below. If its any warmer I will be sweating profusely in it. The 6.7 ounces of down makes it quite toasty.

I doubt that you can beat it. Terrific parka, worked well down to -30 F last winter here in Montana. I tested and reviewed it for BackpackGearTest.org. Be aware that MB tends to size a bit small, and that you will likely be wearing the parka over several other layers.

The Frost Line is a really appealing light winter jacket. The price ($219) is a bargain for a box baffled 800 FP jacket like this. There are similar jackets that cost more (ie. Patagonia Fitz Roy) and there's the Mirage that weighs less, but the Frost Line is a really nice balance.

Compared to the Mirage, the Frost Line is quite a bit heavier (19.7oz vs 12.8oz in Med) but it costs $90 less ($219 vs $309).

Those extra 7oz appear to be caused by 3 things:
1) Quality of down (800 vs 900)
2) Shell fabrics (30D/20D vs 7D)
3) Cut

Switching the Frost Line to 900FP down would only save 0.75oz, so that's not the big source of weight difference (6.7oz of 800FP = 5.95oz of 900FP).

The use of 30D (outer) and 20D (inner) fabrics rather than 7D likely adds about 2oz to the jacket, so that's a decent part of the weight difference. Whether this is worth it is individual preference, but if you plan on true winter use then I prefer the 30D fabric. My current down jacket (70D?) has quite a few holes in it after 6 years.

Perhaps the largest source of weight difference is the cut. The Mirage is sold as a "midlayer" while the Frost Line is "slightly over-sized with a longer torso….cut for layering". So the Frost Line is an inch longer in the torso and sounds like a bigger cut overall. My guess is that you'd have to go up a size on the Mirage to get a similar jacket.

In summary, comparing a large Mirage to a medium Frost Line, the weight different is probably 5oz. Of that about 1oz is caused by the lower FP down, while most of the other 4oz are attributable to the more durable fabrics.

In terms of warmth, they look the same. We can convert the down to equal quality: 6.7oz of 800 FP = 5.95oz 900 FP, which is 12% more than the 5.3oz of 900FP in the Mirage. So the Frost Line has 12% more down by fill volume, but it's also a bigger/longer cut jacket so the down is spread over more area. So it's probably a tie.

Great summary, Dan.

I would add that Dane over at Cold Thistle has measured his size L Mirage at 420g. He measured his size L Permafrost is 694g. So the Frost Line would seem to fall in between these two at just over 600g for a size L. This seems a little odd to me, considering that the Permafrost has 65g more down and a Windstopper membrane to boot. Great as the Front Line may be I think for less than 100g weight penalty I would still choose a Permafrost.

+1 nice summary Dan. I do like the idea of the heavier shell of the Frost line even with the weight penalty. Im very good about UL gear but a little more abrasion resistance sounds practical. Thanks for a well thought out informative review.

jimmyb

I would just warn people that the sewn box baffled parts are only about 0.25" high where they are sewn, not much more than a standard sewn through jacket.

I looked at the Permafrost, it's definitely a beast. Ultimately, it was just more jacket than I needed, especially since the price tag was $100 more than the Frost Line.

Would be nice if Montbell made a parka with 7d inner/outer with the same 9oz of down, only 900fp. Would be a million dollars, but I would have to buy it.

Ryan

Ryan, when I was in Taiwan I saw a box-baffled MB parka with "1000" on the sleeve and what felt like a 15d or 20d shell. It was the only one in the shop and I've never seen it even mentioned anywhere.

My ideal parka would be a Frost Line with a 15d shell, 7d liner and 900 FP down.

Ah! Wrote this whole reply but got lost somehow.

Anyway, thanks Dan for the good comparison.

"In terms of warmth, they look the same. We can convert the down to equal quality: 6.7oz of 800 FP = 5.95oz 900 FP, which is 12% more than the 5.3oz of 900FP in the Mirage. So the Frost Line has 12% more down by fill volume, but it's also a bigger/longer cut jacket so the down is spread over more area. So it's probably a tie."

Thanks to your comparison the Mirage and Frost Line do seem very close, in spec warmth. Practically a more windproof shell and fit might shift the balance again. More coverage of waist, and for example longer vs shorter sleeves. But, the more dense down per surface might negate it. This is why I was curious how the two felt next to each other. Just need to try them both on I guess, but can't from here.

Regardless, the Frost Line still seems to offer a lot for the money, and it is not that the weight is that bad for what it seems to do.

(edit just to clarify –
I've tried jackets on here locally that just felt real warm because they had such great fit – good collar, good sleeves that added to their warm feeling. Reversely I had a jacket that was already very roomy in the torso, but with short sleeves and it felt less warm than you'd expect from it. )

JC-

I like the way you think!

Ryan

Is the Mirage hood helmet compatible? If not that drives the whole choice to a nice simple frosty finish (for me at least).

"My ideal parka would be a Frost Line with a 15d shell, 7d liner and 900 FP down."
That's pretty darn close to the Mirage. Just 8 denier away on the shell fabric spec.

Too bad Backcountry.com is out of medium or I'd be ordering with the 20% off coupon.

I have a Frost Line in size L, awesome jacket. I wore it a good part of last Winter, which here in MN was brutal and with 4" of snow already on the ground in Minneapolis is looking to be another great year for snowshoeing and snow sports.

To the original question, for the price, the quality MB offers, and it's relative light weight, no, I don't think this jacket can be beat for it's intended purpose.

It's worth noting that the 2014/2015 version of this jacket is substantially different than previous versions. Montbell chopped about 6oz of features off.

Dan, what conditions are you in where the Frost line is a "light jacket"? I wore a Montbell Ex light down anorak last weekend with a pair of Montbell marino wool base layers, marmot scree pants, icebreaker t and a Montbell fleece and I was super hot in that at 15 degrees, I ended up peeling the base layers off and was ok. I can't imagine wearing my frost line unless its near zero, otherwise I would be sweating profusely.

I have a Mirage and Permafrost which are
great pieces of kit, I like them so much
my wife bought me an Ex light Anorak for our
recent wedding anniversary.

Stephen if I may ask –

Till where would you wear the Mirage, temperature wise, and when switch to the Permafrost?

Does the Mirage have a helmet compatible hood?

Hi Iko,

I wear the Mirage to about 20f by itself and then switch to the
Permafrost, I often team the Mirage up
with an Arcteryx Nuclei or Atom Sv.

I have never tried the Mirage with a Helmet
but can do so later tonight (I am just getting off a flight)

Jakuchu San,
I have a lot of Montbell jackets with hoods and almost all of them are helmet compatible. In what prefecture in Nippon are you living? Is there a Montbell store near you? I lived just south of Tokyo from 2004-2009 and always went to the Montbell store in Yokohama.

Thanks, and yes Heath, I realise now too. I have an Alpine Light Hoody that also fits a helmet fine. Not overly generous, but certainly ok.

I live in Kansai region within half hour walking distance of some good mountains, which is how I can train twice a week. There are Montbell stores left and right, but they don't have the Mirage in Japan so I can't check.

There are some differences between Montbell JP and Montbell US. In what is offered, and sometimes also differences in the actual item, even if it does have the same name.
They have the regular Alpine (apart from the Alpine Light) here still, and the JP Permafrost is different (lighter, less warm) from the US Permafrost. On the light end they have a UL Plasma jacket with 1000FP fill that weighs a total of 130gr in JP Medium (I guess US Small). etc.

–