2015 Bob Marshall Wilderness Open

[Hiking Malto]

Justin,
This will vary greatly depending on the conditions and route. I was part of the 2013 crew and I believe my route was about 85 miles, mostly on trail. I finished at about 3pm on day three. How does that compare with "normal hiking?" Day 1 was a late start at about 7:00-730. But I went until dark both days and started in the dark the other two days so long days. this time of year on the PCT or AT this would easily translate into 40+ mile days so I took about a 25% decrease due to conditions. (My route below the Chinese Wall had a fair amount of snow.)

Dan,
I agree completely with not getting locked into the details of a route. I did this only to abandon it for three different routes. what changed was the level of the Flathead River with the water dropping from record levels to a more manageable level during the trip. This allowed the cooler route and the Flathead crossing much further downstream.

Last year I did the preliminary route planning, enough to know that it was a long route. As the snow levels increased I knew my window of opportunity was too short to commit to the trip.

[spelt with a t]

"So my suggestion is to put together 3+ routes that are mostly non-overlapping, as well as 1-2 bail options for each."

This is exactly what I did for my first attempt last year, and I'm glad I did.

[David Chenault]

Dan and Malto have good advice on routes. Being flexible and sussing out the conditions and making a final choice before the start, or even mid-way, is most realistic and tends to cultivate the best attitude. I have a good idea of the way I'll probably go, but the final 1/3 has two fairly different options and I might not make the choice until I'm in the field (based on snow cover and creek crossings). Things like whether a trail is south or north facing and if it runs through thick forest or a burn can make a huge difference. Crossings can also change drastically. To use one very relevant example, in 2013 the ford of Strawberry Creek near the Middle Fork confluence was dead easy; I barely had enough water to launch my boat. Last near it was 4-6 times bigger and to my eye looked un-crossable on foot (without swimming).

As usual, I'm not going to share too much specific beta here, but if you show up at the start I'll tell you everything I can.

Goretex socks are pretty useless after the first knee-deep creek ford, and there will be lots of those. Size your shoes so the neo socks have room. The Speedcross tread is an excellent one for this sort of thing.

[Luke Schmidt]

Derek I noticed no shelter on your list, what are you bringing? I'll probably bring a 8oz tarp and 7oz bivy. That combo is light and comfortable in the rain. Or I may opt to borrow my brother's GoreTex bivy as a stand alone shelter.

[Derek Larson]

Dan,

I like my one route and I'm sticking to it! Yes, I'll have a backup plan, and a backup plan to the backup plan, and a self evac plan (cardboard sign that reads "gas money"?). I see that your multiple route image for the 2015 BMWO was taken down or deleted. I think I'll hold off on publicizing my primary course since it seems like that's a no-no (as much as I want to). Thank you for all the other tips.

Luke,

Shelter: Last May, I bought a lightweight 1 or 2 man tent from REI in Anchorage (the model name escapes me). I'm considering taking along the paper-thin rainfly and poles only since the bugs don't seem to be an issue.

Other weight-saving thoughts:

– Bear spray. Will not buy if going with 1-2 others, but might not bring if going solo. I hope they don't like my singing. I know lots of songs, and after awhile I like to insert "bear" in the lyrics. It's amazing how many songs I can sing about bears. Bear songs are free…and lighter than bear spray.

– Rain pants. "To bring or not to bring, that is the question (what I'll be asking myself over-and-over at the trailhead start)" Yes, it's a leap of faith.

– GPS. I've already mentioned I don't plan to bring one, mainly because I don't want to buy another high-dollar item and I've been fine navigating in the past with just a map and compass. Just for the heck of it though, I'll do a bit of research on how I can use a smartphone on GPS mode as a backup. OK. Found an article: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=87967

[spelt with a t]

Got my gear angsting out of the way last year. I need work on snow travel and navigation, and better fitness in general.

[Art …]

maybe you Bob guys can clue me in here.

what keeps me from getting seriously interested in the Bob is my perception that it is pretty pack rafting centric. sure there are all land route options, but it seems the only way to get a fast time (not that this is the only objective) is to do major pack rafting (something I have never done).

so is this true or am I not digging deeply enough here ?

from my perspective, the best event would be one where a really strong all land guy and a really good pack rafting guy would finish in about the same time. this would make route choices even more interesting.

[Derek Larson]

What I did was plot a few different routes, then looked at how much possible packrafting could be done on a section of river based on past trip reports and comments made by those who have participated in the BMWO.

Also, what time could I expect to be at a put-in point if I were to use a packraft. Would I have to wait for several hours before it was light enough to safely negotiate the waterway, or would it be dark soon? (disclaimer: I don't intend to packraft either, due to my inexperience, which is none, and I would think that one would have to be an expert at the end of May given the snowmelt conditions).

My guess is that the fast guys (who will packraft) will waste a lot of time because of those situations, but they will also have a lot more fun and 20+ miles less of walking, with 80+ miles of straw on a camel's back.

This is a great debate, and I can't wait to hear what the experts have to say.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

"the best event would be one where a really strong all land guy and a really good pack rafting guy would finish in about the same time"

Art,

I'd say it varies a lot by year, but I think the goal is have it balanced as you describe. For 2015 it looks really comparable.

In 2012 a packraft enabled route was probably a little faster, but not much. In 2013 water was easily faster unless someone ran a land route. I didn't study the 2014 route, but I don't think it was possible to float more than ~20% of the course, so saving a couple hours on the water may have been offset by carrying 10 extra pounds of rafting stuff for >100 miles of walking. Like 2012, it was probably similar.

Most of the easier paddling water in the Bob flows North (SF Flathead, SF Sun River) or South (NF Sun River), so these waterways can help a lot on a North-South course, but when the course is West-East, as 2015 is, then you can't dramatically shorten the walking via rafting.

So my take for 2015 is that packraft opens up new routes by traversing laterally and it simplifies water crossings, but it's not a substantial time saver and it adds weight.

"I see that your multiple route image for the 2015 BMWO was taken down or deleted. I think I'll hold off on publicizing my primary course since it seems like that's a no-no (as much as I want to)."
I put up that intentionally small picture to illustrate the huge array of routes that are possible, but I took it down because I thought even that might degrade someones route planning learning experience. Obviously there's no police on this, but I think it's a good idea not to publicize routes until close the event so first timers get the full learning experience.

[Luke Schmidt]

I just looked at my Cairn maps. As far as I can see the logical place to enter the SF Flathead is just east of Big Salmon Lake. The logical place to take out is Mid Creek Gorge or possibly a bit before (to catch a trail). That means about 17 miles of paddling. You could of course paddle that quit fast and it would be a nice break for your legs. But I question whether 17 miles of packrafting would be enough to justify carry 10 pounds of raft gear for the rest of the course.

I don't think its the most direct route but I've considered trying to hike up the White River Valley. Its wide and often open so I image there would be less snow there.

[spelt with a t]

Art, I think the start and end of Dave's objectives is to get people out there challenging themselves. Like Dan said, there's at least some attempt to provide for a variety of route possibilities, but I'm pretty sure the motive is to up the opportunity and complexity and not foster competition. In other words, a "fast time" is relative only to yourself. If your objective is to beat someone else, it might be best to agree with someone beforehand to compete with you.

[Art …]

thanks everyone for a bit of clarification.

and spelt – yes I'm aware its not really meant to be a competition.
I simply focused on that as a vehicle for determining the balance of options.

[Morgan Rucks]

Justin and Luke, wanna team up?
This "not a race' has been burning in the back of my mind for a long time.
I've hiked with both of you and I think we could make a pretty good team.
Maybe I'll bring the frybake :)

[Justin Baker]

Hell yeah!

But you know I don't any paddling experience.

[Luke Schmidt]

Morgan if your knee will hold up I think we'd make a great team! And meeting Justin would be great. Oh and Morgan I pinkie promise not to lose the map this time!

Just so you guys know where I'm at right now, I think I could get off Friday through Wednesday. There is a thing with parents I probably shouldn't miss on Thursday. So right now the idea is I'd have to finish in four days or less. So race or no race I'll have to move fast. I'd be happy to team up with anyone who has a similar itinerary. My brother is interested in coming but he won't be able to commit one way or the other till he sees how his spring schedule will be after Christmas.

[John Klinepeter]

BMWO Veterans,
The end of May can be tick time in the mountains of NW Montana. What have you experienced during the BMWO? I noticed that Dan said that bugs are not a problem so I hope my question is not terribly redundant. My time in that area has been confined to the July-August-September period.
I picked up the Cairn maps today and will start the dreaming process. If I join you it will be as a distant trail sweep, finishing in about the one week period that David mentioned in the introduction.
Any other low-mileage slowpokes out there? I would prefer to tackle this with a partner. I am a local, have a car.

edit (already!): corrected year

[spelt with a t]

Compared to ticks in IA and PA at that time of year, there might as well not be any. I only saw one last year, and it only had a chance to get on me because I had stopped on a gravel bar to dry out in the sun.

[David Chenault]

It's interesting you mention ticks. This year I hunted bears in the N Fork Blackfoot in early May and picked a bunch of ticks off me. Had an even worse experience at the same time of year in the Missouri Breaks last year (most ticks I've ever seen, creepy even). Never noticed a tick during the Bob Open. Not sure if it's the time of year or the environment.

[David Chenault]

In 2013 Malto finished ~3 hours after me and ~2 hours after Greg. His route was shortest of the three by a good 20 miles, had a ton of snow, and he didn't have a boat. Good evidence that a fast walker with a light pack can bring it to the packrafts on just about any course in the Bob.

Of course, Dan was 12+ hours ahead of all of us, and if I had been in good shape and had lower water my route would have gone in little over 36 hours.

[Mike M]

hmmm…..no race conflicts, haven't been in the Bob since I worked there in the 80's, still haven't met Dave even though we often come close to crossing paths……

Mike

[David Chenault]

It'd be good to finally meet you Mike, and I'd be very interested in some stories from your ranger days.

[Derek Larson]

Yesterday, I discussed the 2015 BMWO with an acquaintance of mine. Although not interested in going, he told me about a book titled "The Mission, The Men, and Me: Lessons from a Former Delta Force Commander," by Pete Blaber, and explained how the unit conducted an "environmental training" exercise in The Bob in preparation of a possible deployment to a region of the world with similar terrain considerations.

After returning home, I downloaded a copy of the book and read the chapter about the unit's experience crossing the Bob Marshall Wilderness. A few of the places on their journey even passed through one of the areas of a potential route of mine, so I took particular interest in the details provided by the author. While the level of experience of most users of this site, as it pertains to lightweight backpacking in a Montana wilderness (or anywhere else for that matter), are probably at a higher level than a commander of an elite Army unit, I found it interesting that many of the same preparations I have made were similar to that of the unit's commander, and even learned a few interesting tidbits.

[Jeff Gerke]

I assume that anyone packrafting in the Bob late May would use a dry suit. Would this be a correct assumption? I bought a packraft a year ago and had some really fun trips with it this past year including one in the Bob. However I have not packrafted in cold weather and do not have a dry suit. Seems like May could be kind of iffy without one.

[David Chenault]

Packrafting in the Bob in May without a dry suit is definitly not a good idea. That said, I've never used more than raingear. I've never flipped, and I boat very cautiously during the Open. I have gotten very cold almost every time I've floated an extended stretch. Maybe I'll push that raingear/drysuit project onto the front burner this winter.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Greg and I didn't use drysuits in 2013, while Cyrus and his partner did. I was definitely pretty cold by the end of the first section, but it was dusk and we'd been wet and on the water for 5 hours roughly. If I had used a drysuit, I might have avoided flipping because I wouldn't have been as cold and seized up.

I would use a drysuit if I had one – ideally a light one like Alpacka's suits which can double as rain gear. Without one, the windows of use are narrower. I'd be hesitant to head onto the water if it was raining/sleeting, but if the sun is shining its not too bad in May. Also consider the water type. Splashy water may be a no go, while calmer waters are okay.

If I raft in 2015, it won't be with a drysuit for financial reasons.

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