FWIW, I would not use California Hill State Forest until January 1. March 1 if you look like a hare, rabbit, or small game bird.
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winter in NY
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That's another one of the great things about Harriman – 46,600 acres with hunting only in relatively small areas west of Rt 17!
>I don't quite have the gear (yet) for real winter camping, but would love to get there (or figure out a way to extend my current gear)
There is a lot of crossover from autumn-worthy (say 25 deg and above) and winter, so you might not be that far away. Deep winter – sustained sub-zero – is another level…
What gear do you think you might need to fill out a winter kit?
Another option, which I mentioned before: http://caltopo.com/map?id=7420
Keene Valley to Bushnell Falls is 4.7 mi
Bushnell to Marcy summit is 3.6 mi (7.2 rt)
No need for ice axes or even microspikes as either snowshoes or skis are required by ADK so as to preserve trails.
What's attractive about this option is that it is far less technical but we'll get a hefty dose of winter and will bag NY's high point. The trail down to Bushnell sees a fair amount of use and is almost always in good shape, so it is highly unlikely we'll be breaking trail, which means the 4.7 mi in/out is relatively easy. There's also the shelter at Bushnell, but I have no idea if reservations are necessary for that because I have never used a shelter in my life after hearing about Hantavirus when I was much younger. However, we could hang out/cook there if it is otherwise unoccupied.
For Marcy, we have the option of Phelps or Hopkins and can take whichever trail seems in best shape. Hopkins marked on the caltopo map.
This sounds like a fun option. I also dislike shelters.
Only trouble with a Dacks trip is that it fairly doubles the drive. But I agree that looks like a nice trip. Might take me over the edge to buy some Altai Hoks too.
I took a short run to West Mountain and Timp from Anthony Wayne today. Up the TT and back on the AT to Beachy Bottom.
Hey all, I like where this thread is going. I'll possibly be in, if it makes sense for me when a plan is more set. (In other words, carry on).
@Christian If you ski in you must have hot coffee ready for us when we arrive at Bushnell Falls, lol! (PS sounds like a fun run… I will have to check my map for that route, but it looks as if you ended up in Oz!)
Re Daks, it is farther for us, yes, but worth it for a quality experience, IMHO.
@Rick Hope you can make it. More NY folks than I thought.
@Everybody… any and all suggestions welcome! Personally, I am not at all wedded to any of the ideas I've offered thus far.
Unless my picture posted upside down and you're referring to the antipodes, I'm guessing you mean the skyline. I took that picture from West Mountain shelter specifically because people say "on a clear day, you can see the NY skyline," yet I see few pictures that actually show it. I only had my phone, but there it is. You can also see Newark and White Plains as it turns out. And the unmistakable skyline of Haverstraw!
Hey all – late to this thread but I'm a tentative yes – just say when and where!
RUNNERS – holler at me – I'm looking to find out what the best areas around are (I've already begun my exploration of Ward Pound Ridge)
Living in Pound Ridge and working in Bedford right now, and have done a few trips up to the Catskills, a couple to the Daks, but many down in Harriman / AT area. For winter I did the last East Coast BPL Winter meet in Vermont and have a Lonesome Lake Hut trip planned for February to do some serious winter day hiking in the well below 0* realm…also near 300 miles of Northern Washington Cascades hiking in snowshoes and microspikes has really kicked my early winter knowledge up a fair bit!
No need for a death march – just a nice scenic area and swapping tips and stories around a nice fire with a hot totty!
Looking forward to seeing what trips unfold.
I try to get out at least one to two nights every couple weeks, and I'm always up for an adventure so shoot me a PM.
A photo looking back at Bear Mountain from Anthony's Nose (took a two night trip there a couple weeks ago).
Hi, Seth,
Great to see more and more Westchester/NY folks!
We've got quite a contingent of us locals so perhaps we should start an e-mail list to keep track of last-minute opportunities to get out and do stuff, whether Harriman, east Hudson or Catskills.
I did a quick overnighter in Harriman yesterday/today with my dog in order to take advantage of the unusual shot of nice weather. It's been rather damp the last few trips so it was a relief not to have to contend with that issue.
However, there were more ticks than I have ever seen anywhere in my life. Got 2 bites and I was picking them off my pant legs the whole hike out! I was expecting to see none after the cool weather of late so I had no repellent.
Hi Bob,
Sorry im late, I just found this thread.
Do you have room for 2 more? We might be able to join the fun. Would love to do some Daks.
We live near the Gunks.
Thanks,
Dean
Hi, Dean:
Looks as if we're still in the planning stages with nothing confirmed yet regards to venue or participation, so stay tuned. Definitely seems to be a consensus is building for the Daks (Marcy) in late January, while of course keeping an eye on conditions.
As far as I'm concerned the more the merrier, but as things progress and commitments are made we might have to see if there is a group size limit for the Daks.
I am also doing a couple of 1 or 2-nighters in the Catskills Dec 13-14 or 27-28 range, and early January, maybe Jan 10-11, which I will mention here when those plans are confirmed. I often do solo stuff with the dog but anyone with experience/kit for winter self-sufficiency who wants to join me is more than welcome.
Out of curiosity, how cold does it get on Slide mountain during the winter?
Depends totally on weather systems. It can get as cold as the Daks, but not usually. Coldest I've personally experienced is -27F (official temp in Phoenicia) at Giant Ledge, although up on the ledge it was probably a few degrees colder. Sometime in the late '90's.
You could get lucky and have sublimely nice winter conditions on Slide – clear and cold but not windy – but best be prepared for some truly brutal conditions and a plan to descend. There are several nice campsites up there with decent spruce wind breaks. It's similar to doing a winter ascent of Mt. Washington – the wind is the overwhelming determining factor.
I like the cold… provided I have the right gear for it!
I went up to the Catskills to watch a meteor shower in October. Underestimated the temps and it got pretty cold.
I got a feathered friends Volant jacket and I'm wondering how that'll hold to Slide Mountain in the winter. -27 is a bit too much for the jacket, but maybe with proper layering it could handle temps of -10.
Would like to eventually climb Mt Washington in the winter, but I don't think I have enough experience. I hear that mt is nothing to mess around with during winter.
Jon, yes that's cold, but again that's the lowest I have experienced and probably about the coldest one would ever see in the Catskills. -15F is more the norm for coldest, and 0F to single digits is probably the seasonal norm for lows on the *peaks*. Hard to say exactly because weather monitoring stations are typically near towns/communities, although perhaps there is a monitoring station at Hunter Mountain because it's a ski resort.
Search BPL for Northeast winter gear lists and also check out Andrew Skurka's Northeast winter gear list in "The Ultimate Hiker's Guide". Then join us for some day trips and start off with easy overnighters where the emphasis is on camping first and difficulty/distance as a distant second. I know some good spots for this in the Catskills, such as Echo Lake from the parking area at Prediger Road – easy 5-mile hike (or snowshoe) to a good camping area… and there are several others with increasing difficulty, such as Giant Ledge from Woodland Valley – a little more challenging in winter.
The coldest midday temps I've experienced in the Adirondacks is 5 to 0F with windchill down to -25-30F in the Lake Placid area, and it was like this for days, so it had to be colder at night (slept indoors). Experienced similar conditions around Mt. Mansfield, VT. These ranges aren't far from the Catskills and I think it's very sound advice to head to the Catskills able to handle similar conditions, especially in exposed areas, though you could of course enjoy milder conditions.
There seemed to be few Northeasterners and New Yorkers on BPL when I lived there a few years back – or perhaps the very active W Coast members made it seem like that – glad to see you all here!
I'm okay with long distance. I'm in good shape, and could probably climb 20 miles in a day with a fully loaded pack if need be.
What I have very little experience in is:
-Avalanche safety
-Knowing when a dangerous blizzard is approaching, and when to turn back
-Seeing dangerous crevasses
-Dealing with dangerous wild animals
-Technical ice climbing
-Setting up a dry camp in wet conditions
-Keeping dry in 10hrs of sustained precipitation
…things like that.
You certainly sound motivated, Jon! Well, for Catskills and Daks you have very little to worry about with avalanches and crevasses, virtually zero with dangerous animals. (The ones that bore holes into your pack and steal your food are another story, however.) An alpine ice axe and crampons (less so than Microspikes) are often useful, snowshoes definitely and trek poles with snow baskets. Managing moisture is a huge topic all by itself.
Just keep in mind that snow conditions, weather and limited daylight hours that very often dictate how much distance you can cover during the winter. And sometimes, it is shockingly little distance. Sometimes ZERO. So don't worry about distance at first.
One year on a trip up to Guyot (White Mts, NH) three of us went in for 3 nights, entering with the knowledge there was a snow storm approaching. No problem, done this quite a few times before. It got really windy up in the Bonds and Zealand, and especially Guyot which is renowned for its freakishly high winds. There were places that were scoured free of snow, long sections with super-soft powder up to our chests, and places that drifts were literally more than 10 feet deep. We got involved in assisting the rescue of a father and 2 sons from Vermont who were not prepared, leaving some of our gear, food and fuel with the father and 1 son and snowshoeing out with the other son to radio NH Fish & Game (who did rescues at the time) to collect the other 2. Anyway, what I remember most vividly is that it took 4 fit guys 6 hr 45 min to cover the 3.3 miles from Guyot to Zealand Hut.
There are plenty of war stories such as this, but suffice to say that when just starting out you don't want to travel too far into the White World until you learn how to live in it. As I'm sure other winter hikers/climbers will confirm, it is one thing to return to a warm hut at the end of the day and entirely another to return to a cold camp or to set up camp in the snow.
All that said, just starting out it would be a good idea to assess what gear you have and figure out what you need to acquire or borrow. If you want to join me for some introductory trips to the Catskills (or Harriman if we get a bunch of snow soon), I have some stuff you can use such as tent and sleeping pad and maybe a sleeping bag, depending on conditions. Stoves and cooking gear I have plenty.
PM for more.
EDIT: PS to mention that there are also courses/trips offered by AMC and many others, as well as those you find listed at REI, EMS etc. And on the BPL home page there is currently an advertisement for Winter 2015 Expeditions. There are plenty of options for more structured experiences if that's your preference.
Bob's comments are great (as usual).
If you want to see my gear list for Northeast winters, it's here:
I've made very few attempts to lighten my winter load, so I would consider this a "reasonably lightweight" but in no way UL list. It has room for improvements to be sure: (also, it's exhaustive, so not everything comes on every trip)
– The snowshoes are terrible… but I hate to snowshoe
– The headlamp could be improved
– Some might suggest I need a better winter stove
– Marmot Scree pants would be a nice addition
– Footwear system only really good to around 0d (Vprthrm socks and/or overboots could be added)
But it would keep me comfortable for a sustained week of daytime highs around 0d F, though I'd beef up the longjohns to Cap4 under about 10d.
Thought it might be useful as a comparison against what you have. Other than the parka, puffy pants, glove systems, and -20d bag, it's really not all that different from what most people use in colder three-season backpacking, I think.
(and FWIW, I think a FF Volant will be fine for 99.4% of NE conditions. And the only dangerous animals are on the Northway.)
EDIT: Bob, Joe, I would welcome critiques of the above list as well.
Christian, from our discussions and PM's and knowing a little about your background I would not question your kit at all. Looks fine to me. OK well maybe the Svea 123R, lol! Actually, I've never seen one of those in action and would like to see that puppy fired up. Last winter was my first serious assault on on winter UL and I was thrilled to get my pack weight down to 28 lbs for 0F trips. It was like floating on air compared to the 50-55lbs I used to carry, and before that maybe 70lbs when I was a fit young lad.
I've got new stuff to test myself for winter – the Duomid, Kovea Spider stove, Synmat with 1/8 CC foam, and EE Enigma – so the learning/testing never stops. I still use a blend of old/new, tempered with experience.
But my dog thinks I'm crazy. I bought him a RuffWear jacket to use with his sleep system. He has not yet experienced sub-zero.
December is a really busy month for me, so I can't really do it now. Perhaps in January or February. When I get some time I'll send you a PM and let you know what gear I have. I'm sure I'll need to buy some stuff. I think I'm ok in the clothing/jacket department, but I'll need to get a good stove/tent/sleeping bag etc (ie camping equipment).
Anybody think that rain and low 30s on Saturday night might mean snow on top of West Mountain? Forecast for Westchester is a low of 32d and 100% chance of rain. Figure 3-4d cooler at 1000 feet elevation, and we might get an inch!
I might chance it for the opportunity of going to bed in the rain and waking up with a dusting of the white stuff.
You're a braver man than I…
Harriman looks positively yukky: http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Bear-Mountain/forecasts/366
Higher up in the Catskills no so bad: http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Slide-Mountain-Ulster-County-New-York/forecasts/1280
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