Topic

LEAVE NO TRACE


Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Home Forums General Forums Philosophy & Technique LEAVE NO TRACE

Viewing 24 posts - 176 through 199 (of 199 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2144661
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    ""At some point, the wiser and more pragmatic course of action is to take responsibility for the unhappiness in yourself and your life, ….""

    Gee whiz. Marcos is one of my favorite BPLers. I must be unhappy too.

    #2144706
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    "No, my issue is with people who don't do it simply because they think it is "gross"…. Who cares about other people."

    Yes the human waste is nasty and litter unsightly but the narcissism and inconsideration for the wilderness and others really pisses me off.

    #2144744
    Marko Botsaris
    BPL Member

    @millonas

    Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA

    "Gee whiz. Marcos is one of my favorite BPLers. I must be unhappy too."

    You are Nick, you are! Remember he has psychic powers!

    #2144756
    BlackHatGuy
    Spectator

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    Justin,

    I'd hope you'd reflect a bit and see how condescending your post is, regardless of intent. Your perception isn't the only one. I dont find Marko always complaining, rather I find that he uses humor and sarcasm to make a point, one I often agree with. And I'm usually smiling, and sometimes shaking my head, when reading one of his posts.

    Don't fall into the trap of thinking you somehow 'know' someone from a few Internet posts.

    #2144772
    Valerie E
    Spectator

    @wildtowner

    Locale: Grand Canyon State

    Why is it, in our current culture, that so many folks feel the need to make personal attacks on someone who disagrees with them (even on some trivial discussion point)?? SO sick of it…sigh.

    Another vote for Marko here — he's clearly one of the most educated/thoughtful posters here, and I always enjoy his reasoning (whether/not I agree with each point).

    #2144821
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "Gee whiz. Marcos is one of my favorite BPLers. I must be unhappy too."

    Nick, i'm not following your logic here. I know some folks who seem pretty centered, positive, and happy whom have friends that are not so, sometimes quite not so. Birds of a feather do sometimes or even as a trend, but not always by any means, flock together.

    If my words to Marko resonated with you personally, then maybe it's something to look at? How does the self described adjective and phrase, and i will quote you, "I am a curmudgeon." and happy go together?

    Short definition of curmudgeon, "a bad-tempered or surly person."

    For the record, i don't view you as a curmudgeon though you describe yourself thusly.

    #2144825
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    Marcos was a head of state in the Philippines. Marko is a guy who lives in the Santa Cruz Mountains. Big difference.

    –B.G.–

    #2144829
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    "For the record, i don't view you as a curmudgeon though you describe yourself thusly."

    What are you new?!?! Nick is king of the curmudgeons which fully explains his position of prominence here at BPL. I can only hope to achieve that level of curmudgeonhood at some point in my life.

    As a lesser curmudgeon, it's my duty to deliver offerings of respect to King Curmudgeon each and every year.

    This year's offering

    #2144839
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Doug, i know you have good intent, but it's ok to have different perceptions about things and people.

    "I'd hope you'd reflect a bit and see how condescending your post is, regardless of intent."

    I can see that it comes off that way, but when does even constructive personal criticism from one to another ever not have that potential tone or affect? Think of the nature of it, and however gentle or harsh you try to be, it still has the implication of, "i know better than you in this area." It not something i try to engage in much, because generally speaking, it usually falls on deaf ears and often has a polarizing affect. I was hoping that it would be taken a certain way, but i also thought the reactions that i did receive would be probable. A gamble.

    Regarding reflection, when it comes to more personal communication towards others, i usually deeply reflect on what i say, BEFORE i say it. Only when i'm overly impassioned about something, do i NOT do this. This happens rarely–it happened briefly here regarding the Palestine-Israel issue. I reflected much on that after.

    "Your perception isn't the only one."

    Course not, but like all humans with some ego, i'm biased to my own perceptions. Anyone who says they aren't, is either a liar or enlightened and the probability of the latter is slim.

    "I dont find Marko always complaining, rather I find that he uses humor and sarcasm to make a point, one I often agree with."

    First, i did not say "always", i used the word "often" and i meant it more in the context of lately. These are very different words with very different meanings. I was stating that i was noticing a general pattern as a trend and that this is indicative of something, that's all.

    Regarding sarcasm… Whether or not sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, personally speaking, i don't mind a little sarcasm when it's related to self or to things or conditions. When it becomes about others, i'm not so fond of it. Those who are chronically sarcastic, well it's been my repeat experience and observation that these folks often use sarcasm as a personal defense. There is usually something deeper there, some definite healing that could take place.

    And, plenty often, believe it or not, i happen to agree some with the content of Marko's posts, but not so much the Spirit (and over focus) of same. I also think people could generally be a lot more considerate of others and nature, and i often wish they were too, however when this becomes a strong focus it becomes limiting both to self and to others. Since i've been there before, i can recognize it. I also know that it's an easy trap to fall into, so i don't look down upon others doing it. I was simply saying, heres the pattern as i perceive it and here's a different and more pleasurable way. Cause and effect, effect and cause.

    We might all be "grown assed people" here, but take a look at the world and humanity. It's run by similarly grown assed people. Seems there is a lot of room for improvement, and a lot of room for growing up even in us grown ups.

    "Don't fall into the trap of thinking you somehow 'know' someone from a few Internet posts."

    There may be a big hole in front of you right now. There are different levels of "knowing" people. I don't think i know everything there is to know about anyone here, not even the ones i've met. I don't need to know all there is to know about a person, to see a clear and repeating expressed pattern and to know the source of same in a certain area.

    Also, i've learned to trust my instincts–i've learned this both the hard and soft ways. I will give you a recent example. Recently, i impersonally, but strongly spoke to a poster whom was being snarky to a couple other posters. Snark is borderline common here at times, and i didn't speak so strongly to that person because of just the snark, but because i was getting these weird, dark, and borderline disturbing feelings particularly in relation to this person and their focus on one in particular.

    I had no awareness or knowledge of any prior relationship or dealings between them, other than both being on BPL. I know very little about the one dealing out the snark, and not much about the person it was being dished out to. I spoke especially strongly though, because of those weird feelings i was getting from the one dishing the snark to the person they were most focusing on.

    I found out later that there was some definite weird and negative history there. Though i questioned speaking so strongly at the time, in retrospect, i'm mostly glad i did considering.

    Maybe your experiences and belief system doesn't allow for such possibilities, but please kindly refrain from putting your boxes on my belief systems, experiences, and reality.

    #2144843
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "Why is it, in our current culture, that so many folks feel the need to make personal attacks on someone who disagrees with them (even on some trivial discussion point)?? SO sick of it…sigh.

    Another vote for Marko here — he's clearly one of the most educated/thoughtful posters here, and I always enjoy his reasoning (whether/not I agree with each point)."

    What you may not be aware of Valerie, is that Marko and i have a bit of a history. At one point in the not so distant past, the O'Bro's, tag teamed on me with completely unprovoked and true personal **attacks***, in a pretty petty and snarky way.

    For the most part, i did not return reciprocal energy. Where were you when these personal attacks were going on, i don't remember you speaking out of similar principles then? (some did, but you weren't among them). Ah, but truth is, when popularity contests are involved, principles, truth, and defense of same for many become pretty convenient and relative according to bias and like attracts and begets like.

    What i said to Marko was not a personal attack (nor did it relate to the past interactions between us), but giving personal advice with the hopes that it spark some self awareness/reflection. All things considered, it was pretty gentle and matter of fact, and spoke only to expressed behavior. I did not label him in a negative fixed manner, nor make fun of him, nor condemn or belittle him.

    Btw, i agree with you, Marko does seem like a bright and learned guy, in a linear logical kind of way. However, i don't put intelligence on a pedestal. Kindness, positivity, etc are the things i put on a pedestal.

    #2144845
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    You have convinced me Ian. All hail King Nick the Curmudgeon.

    I think i probably take the cake for being the King of cClassic" (and honest) preaching.

    #2144846
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi Nick

    > poluticians isn't in my dictionary. What does it mean?
    It's a carefuly crafted pun.
    Few politicians do anything more than just pollute the environment – sometimes just by being there.

    Cheers

    #2144849
    spelt with a t
    BPL Member

    @spelt

    Locale: Rangeley, ME

    Ian, that's got to boost your curmudgeoninity factor by at least twenty points. Well done.

    #2144875
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "Ian, that's got to boost your curmudgeoninity factor by at least twenty points. Well done."

    I think Roger C. should at least get honorable mention. ;0)

    #2144877
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    I like it.

    #2144880
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    "curmudgeoninity factor by at least twenty points"

    What is the scale?

    Plus, I can't find that word in my Funk & Wagnalls.

    –B.G.–

    #2144904
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    "I think i probably take the cake for being the King of cClassic" (and honest) preaching."

    There is no cake. Purgatory huh? Going to be there a while.

    This is like a Chaff thread of yore.

    #2144930
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "This is like a Chaff thread of yore."

    Wait a couple of months. When the flaming begins in earnest, whether or not to pack out your used TP will be a moot point because it'll all go up in smoke. At that point, our friendly, ever ready to please forum monitor will merge it with The Great Carbon Flame War and we will have resurrected to the longest running thread in BPL history. Why, with our contributions it might even beat out B.G. for the most posts title. ;0)

    #2144941
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "There is no cake."

    Gawd Dang it!!! This has ALL been for the cake, and now you tell me there is no friqqen cake?!! Well @#$ it all! On the bright side of things, thanks for telling me the cold hard truth.

    "Purgatory huh? Going to be there a while."

    Oh, i've been doing Retrievals for a very, very, very long time, and in some much darker "places" than BPL.

    #2145711
    Marko Botsaris
    BPL Member

    @millonas

    Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA

    "As a lesser curmudgeon, it's my duty to deliver offerings of respect to King Curmudgeon each and every year.

    This year's offering"

    Ian, that is awesome. I totally am getting one for my front step!

    Justin … healer heal thyself. Though it is occasionally a hoot to see someone so (incredibly falsely) convinced of his perceptiveness and sensitivity being a passive-aggressive and insulting troll, all while, with unbelievable irony, displaying such an incredible lack of self-awareness as to how he and some of his posts are perceived by the viewers on here…it has become tedious.

    Oh, let me try. Sounds like fun…. It is an established medical fact that %93 of people who randomly accuse total strangers online (as many people in addition to me on this site can attest) of being unhappy are manic depressives. When coupled with extreme passive-aggressive behavior and graphomania the reliability of the diagnosis goes up to %98. Are you taking your medicine? I only ask because I care about your happiness, and because I am so much kinder and more sensitive than everyone I know.

    The above sound stupid and nasty (as it should)? That is how you sound above my friend. I only point this out because I care about your happiness. ;-)

    As I told you a long time ago, it would be best if we just ignore each other on here. I have totally lived up to that for like a year, in spite of the meaty openings many of your postings provide. Don't make me have to start flagging you man.

    #2145889
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi there Marko, i guess you were disappointed in my lack of reactive response to your last dig here, but only one little brief piece of advice this time–get use to disappointment.

    #2149552
    Mateo Hao
    BPL Member

    @math

    Locale: SF Bay Area

    Last year while backpacking in the Trinity Alps, I encountered a rather familiar smell by the river whilst looking for a campsite. I couldn't tell where it came from since the area was covered with sticks. It was also very hot, the middle of drought, and flies were just everywhere. I began to walk away.

    But then I found some used packets of wet wipes. And wet wipes.

    And then I realized I had stepped in it. Someone had liquidated their assets right on the edge of the river and threw some sticks on it to cover up.

    In my opinion, LNT is an excellent teaching tool for young folks new to the wilderness. Its principles are concise, simple, and provide an excellent groundwork for beginning more complex and deeper conversations into environmental stewardship. I know of no other resource or organization that is so convenient and thorough.

    #2149976
    Alexander S
    BPL Member

    @cascadicus

    I think it's easy to forget how much the "Do not litter" campaigns starting in the 70's have actually contribiuted to changing people's mindsets on trash in general.

    When I was a kid in the 80's, it was not considered strange to ball up paper and simply drop it on the side walk. Trash was everywhere in the cities as well as the wilderness. People routinely dumped their cans into their campfires, something I simply do not see in the Cascades anymore.

    While I still find trash the few times I go to the drive up car camping spots, I almost never see any when I go deep into the Cascades now.

    As a teenager I would have dropped or left things at a campsite without a second thought with the rationalization that it wasn't very much, which was good enough back then. I now scan my camp sites routinely and reflexively for even the smallest artifact.

    Habits change through education.

    #3513413
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    I miss Marko. He’s left no trace.

Viewing 24 posts - 176 through 199 (of 199 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Get the Newsletter

Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light!

Gear Research & Discovery Tools


Loading...