John Muir Trail speed records – a question of style

I was going to attempt something unsupported, but I didn't like how it felt, so it's back to boxer briefs for me.

> I was going to attempt something unsupported, but I didn't like how it felt, so it's back to boxer briefs for me.

Douglas.

Depending on how quickly you put them on and then took them off, you MIGHT, unbeknownst to you, have a brand new FKT-TDTW (Fastest Known Time to De-Tightie-Whitie).

If so, I think you need to get a Kickstarter going, hire a European film-crew, track your progress on the internet, hold a press briefing (no pun intended), publish a glossy brochure, and request sponsorships from industry-leading loose-fitting brief manufacturers.

Of course, you better enjoy your seven minutes of FKT-TDTW fame, since no doubt somebody will be gunning for your record (in a fully documented manner, with several pacers and cutting-edge electrolytes) once they hear about some new record out there. (Otherwise, why even do something?)

"I was going to attempt something unsupported, but I didn't like how it felt, so it's back to boxer briefs for me."

Well, that certainly changes my perspective on the record for "unsupported".

And the prospect of an "unsupported yo-yo" is now making me feel quite uncomfortable.

Coming back to check on this thread after a busy stretch of work in the mountains on and around the JMT. Trying to walk the talk so I can really learn about this. Even set an unsupported FKT on a local mountain near Bishop (that I am not publicly claiming). Aaron is right (from above), I just don't get it. Which is why I started the thread and asked these questions to this group. And you all have not disappointed. Great insights, perspectives and a ton of entertainment. Thanks everyone!

Ultimately, I agree with the "to each their own," freedom of the hills, or HYOH (not sure what that stands for actually) approach to the mountains in general and to a point. It gets taken a bit too far for me when people start self-promoting speed records without established parameters for open competition. The concept of the endeavor of supported FKT's on the JMT is immature and lacks credence as an athletic competition. Second, an perhaps more critically, I don't think bringing personalized race courses complete with aid stations, porters, and pacers is compatible with wilderness character and ethos. Supported record record holders and contenders organize support tactics and infrastructure in an attempt to civilize the wilderrness for their JMT itinerary. There is a reason why organized races are not allowed in wilderness. We all affect one another in the mountains and we should travel through and enjoy these places in ways that respect that, with as minimal impact as is practical. In normal American civilized life, we do not generally consider our footprint of impact on one another, which is one of the reasons why we tend to value wilderness in this country and set so much land aside as such. Though I admittedly don't fully get it when it comes to ultrarunning and the culture that surrounds it, I don't think strong passion for long distance running races supercedes these wilderness values.

"Different strokes for different folks" is all fine and good in society until you leave the confines of law, morality, or ethics. I am not suggesting that the supported style is unethical per se, just that it is and has been overglorified lately because of the faster times recorded. I contend that the supported style of FKT's on the JMT is inferior to the unsupported from both a competitive athletic and wilderness ethical standpoint. I'm calling it out here and I welcome any rational arguments to the contrary other than the elusive "to each their own" deflection or the "this is a trivial philosophical debate" shrug (aren't all philosophical debates trivial?). I hope that more mountain athletes continue to agree with this perspective and that it becomes by consensus the standard and much more popular attempted FKT style for the JMT.

Howie: HYOH = Hike Your Own Hike. "Different strokes. . . " in BPL-speak.

FLAD = four-letter acronym definition.

"I contend that the supported style of FKT's on the JMT is inferior to the unsupported from both a competitive athletic and wilderness ethical standpoint"

Wanting to be the fastest is the insanity of ego. They BOTH put personal ego ahead of the wilderness experience and create distractions for other users of the wilderness… which makes them antithetical to wilderness. Very self-centered and inconsiderate of others.

Billy

"Wanting to be the fastest is the insanity of ego. They BOTH put personal ego ahead of the wilderness experience and create distractions for other users of the wilderness… which makes them antithetical to wilderness. Very self-centered and inconsiderate of others."

** laughing nervously as I dive for cover from collateral damage in a nearby flame-resistant trench. **

" Wanting to be the fastest is the insanity of ego. They BOTH put personal ego ahead of the wilderness experience and create distractions for other users of the wilderness… which makes them antithetical to wilderness. Very self-centered and inconsiderate of others.

Billy "

2 points :

1. regarding speed being antithetical to wilderness experience, just try it and you may change your mind. this has pretty much been disproven by simply trying it.

2. regarding very self centered and inconsiderate of others – inconsiderate ?? unless the speedster is knocking over slow hikers as he speeds by how is this inconsiderate ?
self centered ? all of life is self centered. backpacking is self centered. the struggle of life from birth is an attempt to become king of the universe. life is merely a slow realization that this can not be achieved unless we greatly modify our definition of universe. speed hikers and slow backpackers are both merely trying to define their universe.

It would be much easier going SUL and pushing a sub 7 day time on the JMT than it would with a huge pack making 10 miles a day for 22 days.

A little more of a push is just a long adventure run.
Why does anyones ego have to involved to have fun?

Those who can, do.
Those who can't, backpack…..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA …. er, I mean, uhhhh, yeah.

Deleted.

n/m