is a knife a non-essential item?

For all the what-ifs that theoretically could arise that require a 1 ounce knife (and the far fewer, but infinitely more dramatic situations that would require Crocodile Dundee's knife), there are at least many what-ifs fixed by a needle and thread. Which weigh a gram.

And yet, I never see a thread arguing standard sewing needles versus glovers needles (my favorite) or if the added weight of also carrying a carpet needle or darning needle requires you to resign from BPL.

If you knew you were going to be sent 20,000 years back in time, most would agonize endlessly over .338 versus .458 rifles and the UL guys would go for 30/06 while the SUL crowd would argue you can kill a mammoth with a .22 if you are experienced enough while some moron would advocate for Dirty Harry's .44. I'd bring a thousand sewing needles (about a pound) and trade for what I needed when I got there.

I was in the sierras last October and the only water on a forty mile stretch was a stream that was covered in ice. Probably could have used a rock if there was one nearby, but my knife ended up saving a lot of time to cut through the ice and get my water. Never used it again on the trip, but man it was useful for that situation.

I need a knife to cut the thread when sewing.

My teeth aren't what they used to be.

No. We traded tooth and claw for tools. That doesn't mean you have to haul some Crocodile Dundee Rambo short sword. A good quality 3.5" folder or a Mora will fill the bill nicely.

I carry a pocket knife every day. Why wouldn't I carry one while hiking?

What would I use a knife for?

Food prep
Repairs
Fire making
Improvising shelter
Self defense

"But recently the 68-year-old has added something to the hiking sticks, water bottle, rain jacket and sketching supplies she always takes along — a loaded Glock.

Graham is arming herself because she fears the large, white Akbash dogs that guard sheep herds around Silverton and other high-mountain towns, particularly along the popular Colorado and Continental Divide trails. "

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26398825/guard-dogs-continue-frighten-hikers-high-mountain-trails

"And yet, I never see a thread arguing standard sewing needles …"

because then it would be a needle and thread thread.

"I carry a pocket knife every day. Why wouldn't I carry one while hiking?"

Same here. It would make no sense for me to leave it home when backpacking.

No problem if some of you don't want to bring one. I'll keep bringing mine and if you need it I will loan it to ya.

As for mountain lions, at least I have a small chance if I get attacked. I also carry a screeching mace around here. They tell you to fight back and I would rather do it with my knife than small scissors.

A can of bear spray would be better. Works on bears too :)

+1 Paul!

I now carry a pair of Swisscard scissors and leave the heavy SAK classic at home. :)

Still carry a knife climbing, but if I am hiking I just bring scissors. The only thing I have ever used a knife for hiking was to slice cheese. Pre-slice the cheese and I have no need for a knife.

I'm under no illusion that I need a "real" knife, but I think the honest truth for me and many others is that tools are pretty cool and fun and I'm out there to enjoy myself. There are some trips where I have extra packrafting gear or big water loads on a long trip and every little thing is worth scrutinizing, but 85% of the time I'd rather cut my cheese off the slab while I'm out there. Or my avocado. If you're hiking the JMT, plan ahead, and don't care about all this aesthetic bullshit, then no, you probably don't need a real knife (though the same could be said about other "nessesary" gear like shelters and sleeping bags).

What does ice do to a knife edge?

Whittling.

Of course that moves it from "necessity" to "personal luxury" unless you're whittling tent pegs or some such.

A man needs a knife…

Depends. I probably could get by fine with just a Vnox Classic most of the time, but always carry a Spyderco Delica. Was wishing for the saw on the Vnox Hiker, that I usually consider dead weight, when I lost a trekking pole doing some class 5 "scrambling" climbing around a waterfall that flows into a hole. Had to cut a limb to use as a trekking pole/support for my Tarptent Notch.
Where appropriate in cold weather, I sometimes bring a folding saw for cutting firewood, and a fixed blade comes in handy for splitting it if all the small stuff has been picked over already. Bought a Mora Companion HD this spring that I'll carry instead of a heavier knife on the rare occasions I bring the saw. Since my weekly trips in winter are only 1-3 nights, pack weight's already minimal, and the extra 14.4oz that combo weighs isn't noticeable. The ability to have a decent sized fire prepped in going in just minutes is, though, because if it was too time consuming I wouldn't bother. Fire can be fun to play with when sunset comes early…

…annnd the knife comes off my gear list. If I want self-defense, I'll bring bear spray, and the food I pack can be eaten with a spoon. As for cordage, I plan to have it pre-cut and tied onto my tarp already. For fire I bring an alcohol stove, and a knife large enough to make real firewood would be too heavy anyway. As for being a man, I'll sweat it out.

Justin pondered, "What does ice do to a knife edge?"

It makes it cold :)

I would worry more about bending the point and would lean to a thicker, blunter profile if that was a primary use. With reasonable care, I wouldn't be too worried about it. Sounds like a good job for a Mora.

Not going to get in if a knife is needed or not. I do know *I* use a knife/scissors pretty frequently on trips…even if it something as simple as opening up a package of food.

I carry a SAK classic on me at all times and actually the use scissors pretty frequently.

On this little key ring, I also have a p51 can opener and a small orange photon light.
http://www.pmags.com/light-versatile-and-cheap-the-p38-and-p51-can-openers

About 1 oz. Don't really think about it. Provides much utility both on trail and in daily life. (I opened up a package from Amazon with the p51 last night!)

Not sure what it says about me..but it DOES work for me. ;)

Thanks for that tidbit, Paul! I just replaced the striker for my firesteel with a p51 I had lying around. It strikes just as well, and the weight difference is negligible for the extra utility.

I've normally kept the blade on the can opener taped down until I need it. I feel like if I don't, it'll rip a hole in something. But I noticed you just let the blade flop loose. Am I just being paranoid?

"What does ice do to a knife edge?"

Probably not much, but all the grit and sand in the ice will do a number on the edge…

billy

I recently spent an evening around a campfire with a group of coworkers and the knife discussion came up. One of the guys had a big 1/4" thick, 7" blade survival style knife and we had loads of fun giving him crap about it. His response was one of pure shock that we all didn't have our own 7" blade bowie knives. He said, "I thought everyone brought a knife camping". We then spent the next couple hours at the campfire watching him baton firewood into smaller firewood, make fire-bows, etc. In short, his knife provided a lot of entertainment for about 15 people for an evening. :) On a serious note, he'd also done a lot of survival studying and practice, and if you were in a real wilderness emergency, would be the kind of guy to have along. He liked to think outside the box.

I think in our day of cuben fiber tarps and freeze-dried, vacuum packed meals, it is harder for us to imagine the uses of a knife for survival. Less than 100 years ago, when jogging to your car for a bail-out of the mountains wasn't an option, a knife was an essential part of survival. I think that is the key to whether a knife is "essential" or not. Can it be replaced with other items in the event you do need it?, and how likely is it that you'll need it.

Personally, I like a small knife as it is one of the most "multipurpose" items in my kit. I thought that's one of the things we try to go for in BPL, is having items that serve more than one purpose. It came in super handy for me when I needed to use a flint striker because my Bic lighter was frozen, when I needed to cut cord, or make kindling, etc. And yes, I use it to clean my fingernails and dig out splinters, pop blisters, cut bandaging materials. None of those are theoretical uses, those are all things I've done with a knife on camping trips.

The answer is different for all of us, since we have different styles and needs. An item for protection alone, like a firearm, can be tough for me to justify; It is solely based on a highly unlikely scenario, weighs quite a bit, and is a single purpose item. A knife, on the other hand, has a multitude of uses, is lighter weight, and is a super easy answer for me.

Some folks snicker at the "over prepared" hikers who plan for worst case scenario. For me it is a balancing act of emergency preparedness, comfort, and light weight. I think that going to either extreme can be a bad idea. If you're one of the lucky folks who have never needed better raingear, a sturdier tent or pack, a knife, or a first aid kit in the back country, then I'm genuinely happy for you. Many of us are in the same boat. Many, but not all. After spending the past 16 years on SAR, I have met my share of folks who suffered from having too minimalist a strategy. ;)

Do you need any kind of first aid kit for your trip?

If so, how much of one?

Same goes with the knife.

Of course if you are not alone, perhaps bring one to share so there's no redundancy.

like the compass.

Just because I didn't use it doesn't mean I didn't need to have it along.

I like my Mora.

At least on my p51, the blade is not floppy and seems to stay still. Some people suggest using a paper clip to hold it in place otherwise.

For those who don't think a knife is an essential item, how would you deal with the following scenarios without a knife?

1. You're in a forested area. High temperatures are in the upper 30's (F/slightly above freezing). It's been raining nearly constantly for 4 days, and continues to rain. While attempting a stream crossing, you slip and have to jettison your pack in order to prevent drowning in the dangerously swift water. You're now soaked and shivering with only the clothes you were wearing and the gear you were carrying on person. How do you warm up?

2. You awaken suddenly to find that the only entrance to your tent is engulfed in flames because your companion was careless with the stove in the vestibule while making breakfast.

[Edited to clarify: "gear you were carrying *on person*" and 30's *F*]

1. By avoiding the situation.
2. By avoiding the situation.