Don’t shoot me – quick question on tarp stakes

I love my ti shepherd hooks from Lawson Kline.

If you want groundhogs though, do yourself a favor and get the MSR's… the knock off's are a total waste.

So I don't know which I want but since I'm already ordering a few things from Lawson, maybe I should just give his stakes a shot?

Thanks btw Chad, your blog has been a huge help to me in the past.

Those are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. To shepherd hooks are light but don't hold great and groundhogs hold well but are heavy.

I own both, and use both when conditions warrant.

That being said my favorite stake is the 6" blue Easton tubular stake. They are reasonably light at .35oz, hold pretty well, and are easy to handle.

Groundhogs are harder on your hands to drive into the ground and I often end up using rocks etc to do so even in softer soil.

Ti shepherd hooks go in any ground slipping around rocks and roots. They must be inserted fully into the ground or they rotate and your line slips off. They don't hold the best but I often compensate with rocks on top of them when bad weather is expected. I have had one pop out during a bad storm when I didn't have a rock on it.

I generally use blue Easton's on my high stress areas like ridge lines or major corners and to shepherd hooks on mid point tie outs.

Don't waste your time with shepherd stakes. I have had the MSR groundhogs as well but they are a bit dull and don't always go into the ground easily. My favorite after experimenting for a while is the Titanium V stakes like these

http://gossamergear.com/shelters/tite-lite-tent-stakes.html

Another tip is to use something like this to help push the stake into the ground without killing your hand.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-3-4-in-x-3-4-in-x-1-2-in-CPVC-CTS-Slip-x-Slip-x-Slip-Tee-C4711/100347786?N=5yc1vZbuug#specifications

"I generally use blue 6" Easton's on my high stress areas like ridge lines or major corners and to shepherd hooks on mid point tie outs."

I'm pretty much with Bradford on this, except instead of shepherd's hooks on the low stress mid-points, I tend to use the 4" Easton stakes. I also tie a small loop on each stake, with high vis and reflective cord, so I don't lose them when taking down the tarp, and makes it a lot easier to pull them out..

There was an article here a couple of years ago testing the holding power of various stakes in different soil – the 6" Eastons were pretty much on the top of the list for holding power, the ti shepherd's hooks pretty low.

Use sturdy sticks of around thumb diameter or slightly more and around 12" in length. Find a small log which you can use as a club to pound them in if necessary–or a rock.

Weight: 0 grams
Cost: $0.00

Agree with Stephen and Brad on the nail type of stake. I use the MSR carbon core stakes and they are the best I've ever tried. Very pricey for a stake, so if more than your willing to spend I would still use a nail style stake. Holding power is more than adequate and light to boot.

Ryan

This is like asking someone to help you pick out a car or eat ice cream.
One will tell you Vanilla and another RockyRoad and they are both right.
You have to pick what works for you.
I love Msr groundhogs because the shepherd hooks pull out to easy.
I like Msr groundhogs because the titanium V's pull out too easy.
but that is just what works for me.
My thinking is the amount of weight you save is
less than the weight of a few cookies. I'd rather sleep thru the gale.

Get Groundhogs. Eat the weight– they work. Knockoffs are soft. Ti Shepherd's Hooks look great on a gear list, but suck in rocky mountain soils and wind. You want something you can bash! Getting up at 3am to tame a flapping tarp because of a light stake is a pain– if you can find the #$%^&* stake using your headlamp.

I'll sell you my Ti's so I can get some more Groundhogs :)

5.5×9 with the mutt? Have you tried this in the backyard with the sprinkler running? Got a bivy too?

Have fun, regardless!

I recommend Ruta Locura Carbon Fiber stakes as functionally similar to the easton stakes at a lighter weight. I’ve been using these for some time and am very happy with them.

I use 4 sturdy stakes like the regular groundhogs on the corner stake outs. Lighter stakes get used for the rest.

I usually carry a mix of different stakes. MSR Groundhog, MSR Carbon Core, Ti shepherd… Used to have some Golite v-stakes. And some Easton nails too but broke them all. If I could have only one type it would be the Groundhogs. They hold well and you can hammer them with a rock.

Afterwards you can fine tune your stake set for different conditions but start with Y-pegs (MSR Groundhogs are propably the best).

Well, at least that's how I would do if started now :)

Antti

Dale, haha, fair enough. 5.5×9 will get me by on this trip, as it's just two nights and I'm planning per weather. If it's bad I'll take the ol REI tent.

Someone on here donated a tarp to me and I wanna try it out before I invest in an 8×10. And the mutt is a little guy that curls up close, so we should be alright. I can always hike out if I get soaked…right?

I have Amazon Prime so I ordered these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087HSPL4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Clearly Groundhog knockoffs. Figure if they are terrible I'll get my money back and buy real Groundhogs but they'll work now at a nice price. Thanks for all the advice, I know there's multiple "right" answers to the stake question but this seems the most cost effective for now. Let's be honest, on the rare occasions I get out to camp I try to pick a nice weekend and don't usually face the worst weather either.

Wow, my experience with shepherd hooks have been quite different from everyone else's experiences it seems… Mine have given me absolutely no problems whatsoever. They have held solid in the soil all along the southern AT, various other areas in the southeast, and even in the Olympic mountains. Never had one to turn on me and lose the guyline either.

Saying all of that, last year I did pick up the MSR carbon cores (Had to use that REI dividend on something…), and now carry 2 of those, and the rest shepherd hooks so I can have choices if needed… I have had failures with the carbon cores, but MSR was quick to replace them.

FYI, first review on Amazon for the stakes you ordered: "Work great – well, the ones that don't break."

Personally, I go with 4-Lawson Ti Shepherd Hooks and 2- MSR Groundhogs. If needed, in loose ground, I'll put a few large rocks on the Ti stakes for additional holding power.

Eric, I saw that but the same reviewer also said "UPDATE: The manufacturer sent me a replacement set free of charge. Just did a week in Alaska that included back country camping and all stakes performed well."

It's not a sure thing, but in general for me going with the rule of averages on Amazon reviews usually goes okay. These stakes look alright and I can always get a refund if they bust on me. I'll put them through the wringer BEFORE I take them camping too, just to be sure.

Then again, you guys on BPL certainly know better than I do. I imagine I'll end up with a mix of the good Groundhogs and Titanium stakes eventually…. oh well. I'm driving myself crazy with these little decisions haha

Well, I carry 8 Shepherds hooks at about 1.6oz. I use double stakes, sort-of fanned out like a claw, for the ridge line. The sides have never been a problem, despite heavy storms in the ADK's. I usually choose a shelterd spot to set up my shaped tarp, anyway. For heavy forest with softer duff floors, these would be my choice. Just make sure to clean off the duff before staking down, sometimes it can be 4-6" deep.

MSR carbon core + blue Easton 6".

I've knocked both types hard with rocks in rocky ground many times. No failure yet.

If only MSR would make longer versions of the carbon core's..

I use four tubes, 2 at each end of my tunnel, and the rest are Ti wires. I don't agree with those who say the wires don't hold very well (in most soils).

> the 6" blue Easton tubular stake
I find that the 8" stakes have about double or more holding power compared with the 6" ones.

Cheers

"That said, can anyone just tell me what to buy for my first try at lighter stakes? I'll be camping on AT-type terrain in southern Virginia, so somewhat rocky, soft soil, in a forest at all times."

I am very happy with Lawson's Ti stakes (I've tried all of his variations. The "Long" are my favorite.)

And I mostly use them in NoVa, MD, and WVA – mostly in the Appalachians. Recently on a ten day excursion to Philmont NM, I used a mix of the lightweight & long Ti's. I brought along a couple 6" Easton's just in case. I never had any issues with the Ti's so I never needed the Easton's.

MSR Groundhogs are fine, but can suck getting in, esp. in rocky soil. As far as MSR knock off's, keep in mind the original Groundhog stakes were made by Moss Tents (acquired by MSR in the mid-90's). So if you stumble across some with the Moss logo on them, they might actually be worth something to collectors out there.

"As far as MSR knock off's"…
and again to emphasize the point, some of the Y stakes offered on the net are made with soft aluminium that will bend and brake very easily.
At some point there were also sold with MSR Groundhog stamped on them; in fact you can find a review of one of those in a forum were a guy is rubbishing MSR for that (not admitting that he bought a copy…).
Looking at the writing it is easy to see that they are copies , still easy to see only if you know how the original looks like.

+1 Groundhogs hold best. Nicely colored so you can find them. Light enough.

YMMV applies here. Everyone is different so I always hesitate to make blanket statements. These look a lot like the Vargo ti stakes that I now have bent two of. MSR stakes have never let me down, no matter how hard the soil. Tent stake selection is very dependent on the type of soil you will be using them in.