Bad experience with Jetboil

[David Ure]

Jet Boil…vs…Jet Cook.

Did you boil over?

[Greg Mihalik]

image from Mark S., above –

So, How did this happen? You didn't stir, the liquid at the bottom boiled off, and the bottom of the cup overheated?

Are those fins aluminum?

Just asking, not dissen'

[James holden]

"ahhh … but how much do you save over the AL SOL version …"

Don't care, I got a Pro Deal.

Next.

how much WEIGHT do you save over the AL SOL version

should be comparing apples to apples on what is sold now, not against the 1st gen much older jetboil mr ure

;)

[David Ure]

Eric said: "The old jetboil pcs is utterly and totally reliable IME

The new fancy titanium ones??? Who knows … The extra 1-2 oz lighter is nice i guess, but i like a bit more durability"

And then said "how much WEIGHT do you save over the AL SOL version

should be comparing apples to apples on what is sold now, not against the 1st gen much older jetboil mr ure"

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abuse deleted.

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[James holden]

You little Troll, you.

first of all its a relevant question as you brough up the "8 oz" savings …

second of all its a relevant question as we havent hear alot about the AL SOL version failing the same way, nor does jetboil warn that the AL version is only for water

lastly you seem to resort to "flaming' and "trolling" when you cant answer a simple question

i suggest we take this "trolling" to PM and not continue with it further on this thread

;)

[Christopher *]

We get it.

The feelings the two of you have developed for one another are new and confusing and frightening.

The heathy and responsible action is to stop derailing public threads and keep your affair a private matter.

[Sam Farrington]

"I don't care about boil time, I just care about efficiency – oz of fuel to boil a pint of water."

You are right, Jerry. And that's what it would be nice to have an article about.
Plus comparative weights.

Thanks.

P.S. I want to see Family Guy and Bearbreeder square off on Wrestle Mania.

[K C]

I called this morning and spoke to the same person I did the other two times, she gave me the runaround and got nowhere. I told her that it was not fair that they kept my titanium cup and I expected a replacement or my cup back, she took down my number and told me that another person would call me to explain their policies………

I sent back the Sumo Ti cup in late August and still have nothing….. I'll keep you posted.

[Jerry Adams]

Sometimes you can just wear them out if you keep calling them.

Maybe you'll get someone else one time and get a different response.

Don't be angry, just state the facts and tell them you want a replacement.

Tell her you're not satisfied with her response and ask to talk to her supervisor.

Tell her you're discussing this on this website, a lot of satisfied people, a lot of unsatisfied, a lot thinking about what to buy.

etc….

[James Couch]

You don't want to talk to the same person, they obviously are not in a position to solve your problem. Here is how I would go about this.

first, don't wait for the call back, you have already waited long enough. Call again. No matter who you get, clearly state what you want/expect of them. For example, I would like to either get a replacement cup or my old cup back. Ask them if they are the person able to give you a yes on this, be polite but firm. Tell them if they are unable to give you a yes answer you would like to speak to the person who can give you a yes or their supervisor. Keep this process up until you get a yes or hit the top.

If you get the runaround, let the person you are talking to know that your plan is to then start with the CEO of Johnson Outdoors (who now own JetBoil.) BTW, the late founder of Johnson Outdoors, Samuel C. Johnson's (Sam)overriding principle was “Do the right thing” I believe the current CEO is still Helen Johnson-Leipold. The business is still family run.

I have had great success using this system both as a consumer and as a retailer.

[Stephen Barber]

That is excellent advice, Jim!

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Kaleb

> I told her that it was not fair that they kept my titanium cup and I expected a
> replacement or my cup back,

You do know that what has happened here is actually theft?

The cup IS your property, and Jetboil has taken it from you and kept it. I believe you can file a complaint with the appropriate government department about this which could lead to a prosecution. Someone else can tell you which gov't dept is the right one. (Good luck finding staff there for the next week or two, but the principle stands.)

I suggest you get the name of the gov't dept and then contact Jetboil. Tell them you will be filing a legal claim if the cup or a replacement is not returned within (say) 4 days. You could also contact Johnson (the parent company) and notify them.

Cheers

[Bob Gross]

Also, you want to go re-read the fine print in the original Return Authorization. If the company has that well-written, you may not be able to claim very much. If the company is really reputable, then they may take care of your claim, at least to the point of returning your damaged part.

–B.G.–

[Jeffrey Wong]

KC,

Roger has the right idea on your JB.

Don't forget small claims court, where you can get a judgment in your favor just by the defendant not showing up.

That said, if you can't take a corporation to small claims court, maybe the state can be your heavy, as Roger suggests.

It seems that this is more about the principle than the money now, because in the big scheme of things, that is, your life, $200 really isn't much. It's not even a month's worth cigarettes to a pack-a-day smoker. Make them get on their knees!

Cheers.

from a user of:
1. Cat alcohol stove
2. Snow Peak giga power
3. Svea 123

[Larry De La Briandais]

Just because they put something in writing in the RA and state that by returning it you agree to abide by it doesn't make it enforceable. You can't sign away your rights. I cannot tell you what is or is not enforceable, but I would not believe they can keep it regardless of what is in the RA. I would agree with Roger that it is theft.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi All

I followed this up with Jetboil and got a reply. There may be some problems with lines of communication within the company, but a solution would seem to be at hand.

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Dear Sirs

We have had some discussion on our web site about the reliability of
the Jetboil titanium heat exchanger pots, and in particular about the
aluminium fins on them. Some failures have been seen and photographed,
and reported on the web.

Does Jetboil have any official comment about this problem?

We have also had a claim that the Jetboil warranty does not apply in
the EU zone, that there is there is no warranty on any products sold
in the EU. Is this really true?

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[Jetboil replied the next day]
Hello Roger!

To help answer your question, our warranty information is found this website link: http://www.jetboil.com/warranty and we support this worldwide including all countries in the EU [my bolding]. Should our product not function properly under normal use, the customer can return it to the place of purchase or contact our distributing partners directly for further action. Our global partners can determine if the problem is a manufacturing defect or damage occurred from accident/misuse and allow next steps taken for repair or replacement options.

In regards to the forum discussion that is taking place, without our detailed review of the damaged item in question it is hard to provide feedback. From our experience, things do not just melt and there is usually more to the background story and what might have taken place in the field. If the customer wants to contact me directly, you are more than welcome to pass my details below for their use so we can answer their questions and review the product in question.

Please give me a call anytime.

name and contact details removed per Jetboil request
International Sales Manager
Jetboil Inc.
http://www.jetboil.com

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This does not address the question of whether the fins should melt, but at least it offers the original poster some help.

Cheers

[Valerie E]

Roger, how kind of you to have followed up with JetBoil! Consider your "good deed of the day" done! ;~)

[Mark]

Greg23,

I was warming up a tin of Heinz baked beans, the burner was on it's lowest setting to the point where i had to restart it 3 times.
I was continually stirring with a long spoon.

As i added some cut up sausages into the beans and wanted them cooked well i also added a fair amount of water to the beans.

To give a rough idea of the consistency, i needed a spoon to eat them rather than a fork.

I had read about the previous fin failures after i'd purchased this one, so knew to be very careful, i just figured that a tin of baked beans with water added would be fine, especially as i was boiling them rather than cooking them.

Problem as i see it is

1/ Ti does not conduct heat as well as aluminium, add to this an extremely thin wall and hotspots are a foregone conclusion

2/ The fins are aluminium and are wayyyyy to thin, i've heard reports that have had the fins melt even when boiling water.

All these are ok, problems occur, designs need to be "adjusted"
My biggest problem was the way JB dealt with it and are continuing to "deal with it" i.e. blame the end user.

They were happy to have me return the cup so they could check it until……
"What we would be able to do for you is issue you a return authorization number so that you can send the system in for evaluation. Our warranty department will determine whether it will fall under warranty or if repairs would need to be paid for. We will contact you prior to completing any kind of repairs/replacement as to discuss this with you. "

…i told them i was in Europe.

"I didn’t realize you were not in the USA. You would need to contact the place from which you purchased it; considering the damage to the cup and the details provided this wouldn’t be a warrantied item. The item you will need in order to replace your cup is ccp080-ti, it is the Titanium companion cup. I will attach the quickstart guide and instruction sheet for you that describes proper use and care as this is a premium cooking system and requires special care and attention."

So i need to contact a ebay trader in Germany that doesn't speak English to try and find a way of returning it to him, this when JB have main offices.

Seems to me that pretty much says that there is no warranty on their products in Europe, your only option is to return it to the seller.

Shockingly bad service for such an expensive piece of equipment.

[Dena Kelley]

I'm still tuning in to see how (or if) this gets resolved by Jetboil. The Jetboil SolTi is on my short list. I used to consider it too bulky, but the efficiency of that stove for boiling water (which is pretty much all I do on the trail, my meals are freeze dried) seems to be unbeatable. But if they are a crappy company to deal with, then I won't support them with my dollars, and will just stick with my Pocket Rocket.

[Steve G]

Strange that their warranty does not mention that sending in a product for warranty evaluation is somehow considered transferring ownership and allows them to keep it.

[jscott]

Dena, I'm sure that you know about this already, but the efficiency of my pocket rocket has almost doubled since I started using a titanium windscreen. Boils faster, uses way less fuel. Not bulky like a jet-boil!

[Greg Mihalik]

Mark,
Thanks for the info. It helps to have the details.

" The fins are aluminium and are wayyyyy to thin, i've heard reports that have had the fins melt even when boiling water."

Well, guess it's time to add some water and 10,000 BTUs.
If this bad boy is going to fail, it's going to happen here at home.

[David Ure]

"Not bulky like a jet-boil!"

With my Ti, everything including the canister fits inside the pot. It is no more bulky than the PR with an MSR Kettle.

[Mark]

"Mark,
Thanks for the info. It helps to have the details.

" The fins are aluminium and are wayyyyy to thin, i've heard reports that have had the fins melt even when boiling water."

Well, guess it's time to add some water and 10,000 BTUs.
If this bad boy is going to fail, it's going to happen here at home."

If the fins are well attached to the cup then they should transfer the heat, problem is the welds on the fins is not good at all.
So you have 2 possible failure scenario's

1/ The cup gets banged about like normal with a backpacking stove the fins become detached.
This is unlikely but still over time the welds will get weaker so i'm of the opinion that these cups are not going to last 3 years worth of backpacking use.

2/ On high heat or the heat being increased by say a side wind the welds WILL melt if the contents of the cup is hot.
With aluminium this is not so much as a worry as the heat spreads around the cup more efficiently.
With Ti though and thin walled Ti especially the heat does not transfer through the cup well, you can have a scorching hot bottom of the cup but the side be ambient cold.
This focused heat, together with aluminium fins a alloy with very low melting temps as is, it's not difficult to have enough heat at the top of the fins that it weakens the weld (might even be glue on my newer version), once this weld/glue breaks the fins have lost a majority of their heat sink ability, they'll then just melt.

My theory is this is exactly what happened on my cup,
I suspect the fins were not attached well at the start and by heating my beans up it melted the rest of the weld, the heat sink then dropped away from the cup and melted in a ball of mess.

I have a few other "heat exchanger" type pots, ETA power, Crux etc and i have absolutely no worry about melting the heat exchangers on these, i've also boiled beans and even made scrambled eggs in them without any problems.

The SolTi cup is a fundamentally flawed design, there have been many many of the exact same failures from many users.
Yet instead of taking responsibility and doing something about it JB are blaming the users instead.

We are not talking about a fragile watch or piece of machinery here, we are talking about a cup designed for backpacking, it SHOULD by design be bombproof.

I understand that some fanboys roll their eyes and say "it's jet BOIL" so any other use is outside it's design remit, i'm of the opinion though that a tin of watered down sloppy baked beans needs to be boiled to cook.
For a backpacking stove to continuously fail by cooking something that has slightly more consistency than water is unacceptable.
It's like a backpack that is rated at 30kg but fails at 31kg, or a tent that is rated for dry use that fails when you wipe it down with a damp rag.

I'd suggest to JB that they carry out a "beans test" on future products, if a stove/cup can't boil beans without failing then it's not much use as a backpacking stove IMO

[Larry De La Briandais]

Have you called the contact that Roger posted?

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