Help: Tarp Above Treeline

Tie your guy line around rocks or around the middle of the stake and bury it or stack rocks on top.

You stayed at a "camp"?

If this is a designated campsite, then that often causes problems — compacted soil by many, many visitors. I try not to camp in designated sites, but in some areas there are no other permitted places.

Aside from the suggestions of using natural materials, plain standard Ti stakes are often poor choices for hard ground. Something like MSR Ground Hogs often work where the plain Ti do not.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ditch_your_stakes.html#.UfsjNRanqDY

Can you -F guys see that?

Some good suggestions here–much appreciated. And, Ken, no, we can't see those articles.

Since I don’t think you will be able to read the article on ditching your stakes since you have to be a member, here are some threads,thread 1 and
thread 2 I hope they help.
I must have been looking up the threads while you were answering you couldn’t read the article,only M or MLife can read articles.

I think Ken was sarcastically pointing out the fact that the $25 membership fee is not a huge issue when you consider the knowledge and experience you get access to. as in Don't you wish you could read this?

Maybe not everyone wants to spring for the $100 MLife but gee my tarp blew away above treeline. I wish there was a place I could go to read articles about different sorts of stake holding power. Or which ones work best in rocky/compacted ground. ;)

Might I suggest a $25 dollar investment?

If the weather was good, why bother with the tarp? I never do and the night sky up there is usually worth falling asleep to. If bugs are an issue, where a head net to bed over a hat. Though this is why I use a bivy sack with my tarp since I normally don't use the tarp except for rain.

That said, I use narrow titanium stakes that I rarely can't push them in. If they hit rock as I push them, I simply move them an inch or two over and they usually go in. If I'm camping on rock slabs or sand, then I find heavy rocks or logs and wrap my guy line around them and let their weight hold the line. Once or twice, I've wrapped myself up in my tarp like a burrito with my backpack next to me to provide a little height under it; definitely had to pick a place the water drains away from.

Wrapped yourself up in your tarp like a burrito, eh? Let's just hope there aren't any Mexican bears around.

I love Sahale Camp, beautiful spot. No way Jose to stakes, but a bazillion rocks around for anchors. I bet you had some nice stargazing up there.

I stayed up at Sahale a year ago and managed to get my Rainshadow 2 pitched by tying the guy lines around rocks along the camp wall. It was a pain though and I accidentally broke one of the plastic fasteners crushing it with a rock.
However, It did manage to hold up to some really high winds that night. I was impressed with how well it stayed up considering my slapdash job of pitching it.

I think he was bothering with the tarp because of biting insects. Now if he had a tarp AND bivy … I agree, though sometimes sunlight and privacy are concerns, especially with pre-5 a.m. sunrise times.

"I think Ken was sarcastically pointing out the fact that the $25 membership fee is not a huge issue when you consider the knowledge and experience you get access to. as in Don't you wish you could read this?"

Not this time. I just wasn't sure if that was a member only article or not.

I would not go down the MLife road again. Not with the -F available.

Anyway it is a good article that covers pretty much any staking scenario. Pile more rocks on.

What I like to do, and have been doing for years, is the following. Worked great even in Utah camping directly on slickrock – in lots of places there the "soft" stuff is off limits because of the exotic cryptobiotic soils.

I always make sure my tarp lines are extra long. There are multiple version of this depending on the types of loop you have on the ends of your lines. For the the sake of an argument lets assume you have fixed loops tied for your stakes. You can easily imagine generalizations to other types of ends.

So, you already have the loops in the ends of your lines, but your stake are now useless. If you have rocks within a 100 yards of you campsite then go and find some reasonably heavy ones that have a diameter of 1-1.5 feet. Flat but heavy are ideal. Make a "lasso" loop by pulling the guy line through the existing loop and wrap around the rock. Cinch tight, and start rolling the rock (or flipping it to adjust the length and further wrap the line to the rock. This last is not strictly necessary but allows you to adjust the length of the line to your preference. Either way you move the rock to make the line tight, and to put it in the right spot. Place rock were a stake should have gone. Rinse and repeat. Pile more rocks on top of that rock if a gale is coming. Works equally well with logs so long as the have something sticking out that keeps them from rolling. Use common sense in this.

This is much easier than the pile'o rocks with a stake buried in it method, but depends on finding rocks of the appropriate size. Also much easier to fine tune. Also does't require any fancy rigging at the end of a long day, but does not rule it out in a pinch.

It you are out of rocks, and don't have a jackhamer, you may be SOL. Very unlikely for all those situation to be met. Ive never had it happen.

Edit: of course regular "camping spots" are the worst possible case. Not just because the ground is often compacted, but extra logs and rocks may either have been picked clean, of may be off limits. Yet another reason to avoid them when you can.

I use a trick similar to above, however I tie the line around a smaller rock. Then I place the larger rock on top of the line in right in front of the small rock. This way pulling on the line will not roll a big rock into my tent/tarp. Instead the pull comes to the bottom of the large rock and it must be dragged across the ground.

Above treeline there are often large rock outcroppings where I find campsites. There you can use a very old climbing technique. Early climbers on the cliffs of Dover would place a sling around a chockstone they found wedged in a crack. Then they started carrying small stones of different sizes and some slings in a pocket. Now we have wired "chocks". Using small rocks and slings, I have even rigged a hammock :) This technique makes for a very nice ridgeline.

Wow, a lot of really good ideas here, and they are greatly appreciated. My son and I are going to have a mid-November backbacking trip in Big Bend, and I'm sure several of these suggestions will come in handy.

To those who asked, I would have ditched everything altogether and slept under the stars, but the biting flies (deer flies?) were out in force. While I didn't need the tarp, the bug net was necessary.

Ozzy, I did, after about an hour of trial and error, manage to get enough stakes in to hold up the bug net. It wasn't easy. And if the winds had been heavy, there's no way it would have stayed up. But I got lucky. And the stargazing was first rate. At one point I woke up to pee and looked at the moonlit glacier, only to see a mountain goat running across it in the distance. What a sight!

Another thread, specific to a Hexamid.

And yet another specific to stacking rocks.

> "This is much easier than the pile'o rocks with a stake buried in it method, but depends on finding rocks of the appropriate size. "

Although I haven't used it, I think this method should work better than the 'stake under pile o' rock method'. If rocks were just weight and were good and flat, all would be fine.

My little experience with 'pile o' rock' has been that they can tilt/rotate/shift and the stake wriggles free. Maybe it was just windy. I think tying the line to a rock is good… If the wind blows hard enough to pull on the line and roll a rock into me, I got other problems..?

" I think tying the line to a rock is good… "

yep. Mentioned a number of times just in this tread.

Re: " I think tying the line to a rock is good… "

Or tie your line around the center of a stake(or stick) and wedge it behind two large rocks. You can add more rocks as needed.

I did this on an exposed ridge in a severe storm with lots of rocks.

This system does work with those thin titanium shepherd hooks, but I prefer the longer 8" or more version.

> "yep. Mentioned a number of times just in this tread."

What is the point of your comment, Greg ?

what's so amazing is the lengths people will go to fit a square peg into a round hole.

rocky terraine above treeline with wind and storms possible …

free standing fully enclosed shelter (this could include a super bivy)

Regarding a freestanding tent above ridgeline.

Even freestanding tents have to be attached above treeline.

I have seen too many freestanding kites fly away when not solidly attached, including gear. Once over a steep ledge and many ending up in various bodies of water.

Don't ever consider any shelter freestanding if there is any chance of wind.

funny
I once chased my free standing tent a quarter mile across the open landscape up at altitude because I got sloppy and didn't hold it tightly while removing the stakes (yes of course we had stakes, and they sunk into the snow quite nicely). but still much less a kite than a non free standing "open" tarp.

Yes, tieing off to rocks AND stacking rocks,
using twigs under rocks (or or tent pegs) are all work-arounds when you can't get a stake in the ground.

But, IMHO, a Ti shepherds hook stakes is useless excuse for a tent stake. They are difficult in thin mountain soils (read rocky) and they don't have good holding power and with the rounded top they are difficult to drive in.

Ti shepherds hook stakes are candidates for the Stupid Light column. Tent stakes are an important part of a shelter system and should work well. In this scanario, it could have been wet and stormy and a very uncomfortable (if not unsafe) night with a poorly pitched shelter.

MSR Groundhogs are a far better option, and alas, they are heavier, but hardly heavy.