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8 oz. fuel canister lids


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  • #3653559
    Gary Dunckel
    BPL Member

    @zia-grill-guy

    Locale: Boulder

    Some of you may remember the BPL article I wrote a few years ago where I collated the various methods to warm up a fuel canister in cold winter conditions. Members can access that article by typing the following in the search box:

    Winter Canister Warming Techniques

    One problem I had was finding a suitable lid for the 8 oz. fuel canister to make a perforated cap for a hand warmer, and also to use to contain water for a warming “bath.” The Nabisco cookie cup lid worked perfectly for the 4 oz. canisters.

    Recently my local pal Ron Stokely put me in touch with a guy that could make some using his 3D printing setup. After numerous prototypes, we finally came up with the perfect lids.

    Here is a photo of what we came up with:

    canister

    Note the base under the one on the left. It is a simple plastic lid, a bit larger than the bottom of the fuel canister. I cut a piece of 1/8″ closed cell foam to somewhat insulate things from the cold ground. Then I placed a disk of carbon felt over that which rises a few millimeters above the lip of the plastic lid. This allows air (oxygen) to get to the hand warmer, and it also helps insulate things from the cold below.

    Here is a photo of the disassembled setup. The canister on the left is sitting upon the base disk I just described.

    My guy came up with an ingenious alternate design for the hand warmer version. He placed the air intake holes on the side, just below the bottom rim of the canister. He made a small rim inside, just above the air intake holes, upon which the canister would sit. I cut a disk of carbon felt  to fit under the hand warmer and hold it in place. This helps direct the heat toward the canister, rather than allow it to escape downward. The sweet thing about the side ventilation holes is that all you need is a piece of 1/2″ closed cell foam as a base and insulation from the cold ground.

    Here is a fuzzy photo of his work of art, but you can see what he did.

    By the way, these lids snap on quite securely, which is especially important for use with the water bath technique. In fact, my buddy Ron likes the water bath version best. You see, his winter trips are usually snowshoe outings to a yurt, where they provide firewood for heat, and propane for cooking. He likes the fact that he can securely store small items in the bottom concavity, and the canister won’t scratch the bottom of his cook pot.

     

    Now, my ‘guy’ is Nathan, and he is in cahoots with his buddy Austin. They are both engineers, and they have become hooked on thru hiking. So much so, that they formed a company to make what they feel is an improvement over hiking gear that is currently available. Their company is called Chicken Tramper Ultralight Gear, and they are based in Michigan. I have been working with Nathan throughout this whole project, and I’ve found him to be one heck of a great guy – polite, well spoken, and intelligent (he IS an engineer, after all). By the way, Nathan told me that their company would have no interest in adding these canister lids to their product line. He is just doing this for me, and for BPL (of which he is also a member).

     

    Nathan asked me to give everyone on BPL a coupon code for 15% off at their web site. The following is that code:   BPL15

     

    Please go to their site and check out their gear.

     

    Now here’s the last thing I’d like to mention. If anyone might be interested in having one or more of these lids, Nathan said he would be happy to do a batch for me. They won’t be cheap though, as 3D printing is a bit pricy. I would need to charge $10 for a lid, which would cover shipping and PayPal fees. If you want a second lid, it would cost $4 less, or $6. This is because the USPS postage is the same for 2 lids as it is for just one.

     

    If people are interested, please post in this thread. Please indicate which lid type you might like, which will give me some idea of the number and lid type people might want.

     

    Thanks for indulging me on this. My main interest in this project has been to complete the circuit regarding my original paper. It had bothered me that I couldn’t put the 8 oz. canister thing to rest. But at the very least, I now have the lids I need.

     

    #3653573
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    I’ve been looking for a product with the right size lid ever since

    So, this being BPL, how much does it weigh?  I bet this would be the lightest solution.

    You could just leave it on the bottom of the canister, then, if it’s cold, you could fill it with water

    #3653579
    Gary Dunckel
    BPL Member

    @zia-grill-guy

    Locale: Boulder

    Ah, Jerry, I knew I could count on you. I remember that you also thought that we needed an 8 oz. lid, and there was someone else that agreed with us. The weight – all 3 versions are 15.0  to 15.1 grams. Maybe the coolest aspect of this whole thing is how you will likely wow the newbies at a group camp site’s cooking area…

    But actually, Jerry, I found something that is even lighter – 8.2 gm. But it only works with hand warmers.

     

    #3653703
    Gary Dunckel
    BPL Member

    @zia-grill-guy

    Locale: Boulder

    Roger, I see where you corrected the snafu that wouldn’t do the photos in my first post. There’s still too much space between the paragraphs in the second half of my post, but we can live with that. Much appreciated!

    #3653707
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there
    #3653728
    Gary Dunckel
    BPL Member

    @zia-grill-guy

    Locale: Boulder

    Thanks for that, Ken. I am pretty much cyber-challenged, and I don’t know how to do that.

    #3653896
    Gary Dunckel
    BPL Member

    @zia-grill-guy

    Locale: Boulder

    One thing I forgot to mention – the canister cozy, which is rather important for keeping the heat  in and somewhat compensating for the self-cooling of the canister. I make mine from 4 mm neoprene. A great source for this is Frogg Togg’s gravel guards, which are waterproof neoprene gaiters for fishermen. You should be able to find them at your local fishing gear store. They aren’t very expensive (~$12 for a pair). One pair will make maybe 5-6 cozies.

    #3653998
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    >> the canister cozy, which is rather important for keeping the heat in and somewhat compensating for the self-cooling of the canister.

    I hate to be difficult, but this does not work as many might read it. A cozy might slow down the cooling of a warm canister in very cold weather, but I have never found that to be a problem.
    A cozy cannot compensate for the evaporative cooling of the gas inside. You are better off letting the canister cop some radiation from the flames.
    A tight windshield, which is always a good idea anyhow, will also circulate some warm air back down to the canister. Just monitor the canister for any overheating – the Touch Test.

    Insulating the bottom of the canister from ice or snow underneath – that’s a good idea.

    Cheers

    #3654087
    Gary Dunckel
    BPL Member

    @zia-grill-guy

    Locale: Boulder

    Roger, of course you are right. The IR emissivity canister warming concept was discussed in the original article. That requires some sort of wind screen to bounce the IR waves from the pot’s bottom back down to the canister. My interest here is to study the efficiency of using either a hand warmer or a simple water bath to enhance an 8 oz. canister’s performance in colder conditions as a stand-alone system (without a wind screen).  I am curious as to whether you think that adding a black neoprene canister cozy would help, or rather hinder, the warming affect of the IR radiation to the canister when employing a wind screen.

    As an aside, yesterday I went to an outdoor camping store to see if they still sold the “lowly” Optimus brand of 8 oz. fuel canisters. I say lowly because the composition is 25% propane, 25% iso-butane, and a whopping 50% n-butane. What I want to do is to wait until December when we usually have a cold spell of 0* F (-18* C). The idea is to burn off the propane, and as much of the iso-butane as possible, and then later employ a hand warmer to see if it can warm up the canister enough to get the n-butane to vaporize. This worked OK with the 4 oz. fuel canisters a few years ago, but I want to see if the larger 8 oz. canisters perform in a similar manner.

    As yet another aside comment, the store didn’t sell the Optimus fuel any more, but I noted that Jetboil has changed the color of their canisters from the old gray to a predominately black (with orange lettering).  It seems that the black color might absorb some extra heat from the sun, and perhaps from the IR radiation described above.

    #3654177
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi Gary

    I have never used a hand warmer, but I would expect them to work OK. They get pretty warm. Having it under the canister and inside a cozy might be best.

    I have used a water bath – water at maybe 10 C in a bowl, and that certainly did work. Zero extra weight involved, and no extra fiddle either.

    A black neoprene cozy down the sides is unlikely to intercept much IR from the flames, so I don’t think it would help or hinder very much.

    What I certainly have found effective is making my tallish windscreen fairly tight around the pot – a 10 – 15 mm gap and closed up at the side to about 50 mm gap. The very slight back pressure created by the windscreen meant warm air was circulating around the canister and keeping it warm. I did not let the canister go above about +20 C, but that did keep the upright stove burning well.

    If you want to experiment with straight butane, you could use one of the butane fly-spray canisters meant for table-top stoves as a source of butane. They are very cheap.

    Alternately, take an EMPTY 8 oz canister, poke a hole in the valve, fill it half-way with ice-cold water, and see what the hand warmer can do to warm it up. Zero cost exercise.

    Jetboil black paint? Dunno whether it would help or not. You would need to know the emissivity of the black paint in the IR region: it might or might not be ‘black’. I’m a cynic: I would blame the colour change on Marketing.

    Cheers

    #3654756
    Gary Dunckel
    BPL Member

    @zia-grill-guy

    Locale: Boulder

    So it appears that no one is much interested in getting one of these canister lids. I can see why – who needs to warm a fuel canister during the summer? Anyway, I am about to place an order with Nathan for more lids, some for my own use, and also for Christmas gifts for a few friends. If anyone wants one (or more) now is the time. I doubt that I will be placing any more orders for these lids with Nathan after this.

    By the way, click on the link that Ken offered for the Chicken Tramper web site, check out their gear, and take advantage of their 15% discount code.

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