2013 Spring Patagonia Houdini Pants / Jacket

I've been thinking about adding a windshirt to my wardrobe and came across this thread researching the Houdini. Was just at REI tonight and wondered into the men's clothing area browsing. Came across a Houdini on clearance. Would one on clearance at REI at this point be the newer, less-breathable option, or is this possibly one of the last of the older, more breathable? I asked the sales lady and she checked the computer, claiming it had been around since late 2012, put on sale ~1 month ago. I've never owned a wind jacket so have no frame of reference to compare how breathable the jacket really was. I tried breathing thru it a little bit but was getting some pretty funny looks from the sales lady so didn't continue… it certainly seemed more breathable than my Marmot Precip wpb rain jacket. Any way to know??

Based on the way REI clears old inventory quickly it's almost certainly the newer Houdini.

Telltale signs of a newer model Houdini: very small pocket that's hard to stuff, and small zipper flap over the pocket. Also, the elastic will only run on the back of the jacket, and the elastic cuffs are only on the bottom half of each sleeve.

I still like my 2013 Houdini despite everyone complaining about it. I don't think it's a lemon. I just think it no longer fills exactly the same role that people originally wanted it for.

The surefire way is to look for the style number on the tag, similar to "19001F6". The final letter/number indicates the season, in this example Fall '06.

(example image at http://pcpsia.com/images/pcpsia/typical_label.pdf)

When I bought my first Houdini in december 2012, I got a transition jacket. A few days later I was caught in a light rain. One side of the jacket was dry (good new DWR), the other side was completely wet (no DWR at all).
I brought the jacket back to the Patagucci store in Zurich. They tested it in the sink and agreed, that it's strange and offered me an exchange.
Now I'm stuck with a 2013 houdini, that's not breathable nor waterproof … arrgh.

@Stephen- the only one of those signs I noticed was the cuffs only had elastic half way around, not fully. I'll check out the others you mentioned though. Sounds very likely its a newer version…
@jeremy- any idea what the cutoff is (or at least transition period)? Certainly of its "13" its a newer version and "11" is older, right? Should "f12" be old, new or either? Do they just do "f" for fall and "s" for spring?

Is a little funny how "up in arms" we are getting about this, but when a jacket filled a specific niche and did it far better than any other option, I can see where the frustration lies. Like others, I'm of the mind that a wind shirt needs to push the envelop towards too breathable because otherwise its just a poor rain jacket and has no point.

Ryan> Would one on clearance at REI at this point be the newer, less-breathable option, or is this possibly one of the last of the older, more breathable?

Why not test the one variable you're really interested in, directly? Just use the "Nisley Two Coffee Filter Test," as described above, and you're done. Can you fill your lungs in 9 seconds, give or take, by breathing through the fabric? Or does it take over a minute and a half? Remember to seal tightly around your mouth, and no nose breathing!

Yea, I missed that post earlier about the "coffee filter standard", per se. Will definitely do that and see how it performs. Thx

Well, no luck… between the breath test, features and style # ending in 13, its definitely a newer less breathable option. Checked pretty much every other light jacket they had and the only one that felt substantially breathable was a North Face Torpedo, that weighed in at a whopping 10oz. There was a very basic, light Solomon that was more breathable than the new Houdini, less than the NF, but wasn't ready to pull the trigger until checked out some of the others mentioned on this thread like the Rab Cirrus or Arctyrex options. I'm very interested in myog stuff and the tyvek coverall to windbreaker conversion for $10 and a little sewing is something to look into as well.

Anyone come across, or even own, the REI Fleet Packable jacket? Just found for the first time at rei and it seems like a great option. Has BY FAR the most breathable fabric of any jacket I've come across (based on the ever reliable breath test), so much so in fact, that it almost feels too breathable. But claims to be windproof to 40 mph, has a dwr for lite water resistance and weighs 6 oz. The fit was kinda poochy in the gut but a bit narrow in the shoulders so my normal Med was a shade snug to wear much under it. Only issue i can find is it doesn't have a hood. Otherwise, feeling like it could be a great option. And BTW, its only $60.

Anyone have experience with it??

I have it. While it is very good it also seems rather unexceptional. It deserves a hood. Very comfortable for active use. Wish the hem had an elastic cinch. Feels more durable than Houdini. The fit on the other hand, is not as good. I needed to size up or have reduced mobility. Pit and wrist mesh "vents" offer just enough without being drafty.

I got my 2011 model from a small distributor in Manitoba (Canada); a lucky phone call got me their one jacket. However I notice that EBay has a regular trickle of 2nd hand Houdinis.

I moved away from the "Wild Things" jackets after writing down on paper what I want from a wind/rain jacket. What I wrote down was,

For the warm wet season, a light and fairly long water and wind resistant jacket over a Columbia nylon shirt and trousers, together with a broad brim nylon Tilley hat (every Canadian knows those) is all I want. I don't mind getting wet in warm weather, and I do mind cooking in my clothes. The Houdini, with some DWR, will be just fine.

For the cool season, a solid waterproof jacket that goes down to close to the knees, with a hood, gortex gaiters that come up to almost to the knees. Underneath, capilene or merino underwear, and polyester based trousers and shirt. (Polyester heats me more than Nylon, from my experience.) A forum member pointed me towards the Paramo, to which I am grateful. I ended up contacting Cioch for a customised model that is, above all, long, all way round. The forums mostly seem to agree that Paramo works meaningfully well in cool wet weather. Which describes most of the year in the Canadian Maritimes. When it's pouring buckets of cold water, I don't expect any jacket to perform. I take shelter.

I wonder why jackets are so short these days, just going to the belt. It must be a fashion thing, cause they sure used to be longer. I can see why climbers need short jackets (also the main market of Wild Things, so I get the point), but for hikers, longer is sensible as long as it doesn't impede mobility, which doesn't happen if the jacket stops short of the knees. Short jackets seem to require rain pants. With a long jacket and gaiters, it's just a few centimetres above and below the knee that remain exposed, and so be it.

Bottom line, for rain protection:
Summer – Houdini, gaiters, wide brimmed nylon hat (Tilley), nylon trousers and shirt
Spring, Automn – Paramo, gaiters, with capilene or merino base and polyester trousers and shirt.

Does anyone know how the Incendo Hoody rates on breathability? Apparently it uses a "lumina" fabric. Thanks!

So what's the verdict on the newest Houdini? Is it a good jacket despite lower breathability?

So from this discussion I learn that my Houdini is the newer model — less breathable, more water resistant. Which makes me think about the possibility of leaving the rain jacket behind on trips where I don't expect lots of rain. Thoughts on that? In particular I'm going to do 9 days in Yosemite this July, could the Houdini serve as both my not-very-breathable windbreaker and also my rain jacket for the sporadic mid-summer Sierra storms I might encounter?

Thats exactly what works well for me. If there is a chance of rain its a good idea to bring a disposable 1.5oz plastic poncho, store in a ziploc bag.

The new Houdini is less breathable, but as good or a bit better than mostvofcthe other current offerings.

It is not a rain jacket, with unsealed seams and will wet thorough. DWR treated windshirts are good for a light sprinkle, but that is it I strongly recommend NOT relying on a windshirt for rain gear.

I carry a poncho when I want the lightest rain gear (7oz). That gives coverage to below my knees and covers my pack too. It can be used for a rest or cook shelter strung from trees or brush and a regular shelter if used with a bivy. A poncho is far less expensive than the UL rain shells, has good ventilation, no tricky laundering, no zippers to fail, etc.

I feel like a wind shirt is enough even when it rains. It just depends if I want to keep hiking through prolonged rain or pitch my tarp and wait it out. I haven't really bought into the expensive rain jacket thing. I tried, I just bought and returned the new mh plasmic. I feel like the only time I would carry an expensive rain jacket is in cold wet alpine conditions.

You're going to wait out three weeks of constant drizzle, wet brush and overcast skies? I don't think so.

I'll give you 8 hours of precip and switchbacks in the Cascades or Olympics and see how you like your windshirt as rain gear. It's a brick on any gear list, but rain gear is a core essential.

A mid layer under a windshirt can keep you warm (while wet) in most conditions, but at that point you might as well just carry a rain jacket. So I don't consider a rain jacket a core essential, keeping warm is the essential thing, but a rain jacket is the most efficient way to keep warm in the rain.
How do you think they kept warm before rain gear? wool.

" rain gear is a core essential." –

It depends if it's cold and wet or you are in death valley the summer.

A 4oz houdini and 1.5oz plastic poncho is what I carry. The poncho is weatherproof and can be brought as rain gear. It's not fancy but it sheds water. Any condensation or rain that gets in will have to contend with the DWR on the houdini.

My new orange Houdini was about $80 and the ponchos are $0.88. What I get is a great combo for a sul 5.4 ounces.

How and when will you dry those wet layers? The ones that are now cold and wet once you stopped moving? Have you ever been hiking in 40f wet weather for several days? Your layering scheme is a classic setup for hypothermia.

I've been snowed on in June, followed with near freezing rain for hours and at relatively low altitudes. I hiked with light base, windshirt and cape with my insulation warm and dry in my pack for when I stopped. Once you sacrifice your insulation to "warm wet" use, you are literally at a layering dead end.

YMMV,

If you don't bring enough we can always use our tent and take a break.

>> So what's the verdict on the newest Houdini? Is it a good jacket despite lower breathability?

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I have a 2013 Houdini Jacket and pants. Terrific fabric, very well made. My only complaint (and it's minor) is that they could have made the pocket the jacket stuffs into just a little bit bigger. I don't have any problem stuffing it, but I do have to work at it. It would be a little easier/quicker if the pocket were just a bit bigger.

The breathability is what it is. Less breathable than my Marmot Trail Wind hoody or other options (including the Houdini Nine Trails which is a houdini with breathable panels on the back). But, on a cold windy day when you want to block the wind, the reduced breathability is plus.

The pants are awesome. They weigh nothing and are the perfect addition to a pair of power stretch fleece or heavy baselayer pants to cut the wind.

So all your travel and layering plans ( read personal safety ) are based on avoiding packing 7 ounces of rain gear? That doesn't make sense to me.

11 ounces of rain jacket and rain pants is always the first thing that goes in my backpack. All rolled up neatly and packed away. I'm happy carry them all day and never have to pull them out and put them on. When I need them — due to pouring rain or driving snow or unexpected wind/cold — all those days of carrying them are worth it. If I had to choose between the rain gear and a windshirt (fortunately, the stuff is now so small and light that we don't have to choose), I would take the rain gear.