Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea

[Michael Gillenwater]

Any reports on progress with the ring testing. Inquiring (and lazy) minds wanna know.
mg

[Ian]

I'm working out a design to integrate Jon's idea with a smaller windscreen in hopes of producing a more efficient combustion chamber. I'm traveling at the moment but hope to build it next week.

[Jay Wilkerson]

Thayne, MINOR THREAT!
Back in the Day in LA

[Daniel Fish]

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[Ian]

Daniel,

I added wings to the Esbit tray of my ti wing to simulate a gram cracker and found no notable change in performance. My assumption was that it's too close to the pot. Since mine was a MYOG, I was wondering if you've tried it w the real thing and if so, what were your observations?

[Daniel Fish]

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[Daniel Fish]

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[Ian]

I should have stated up front that I'm looking for increased fuel efficiency. Ideally I'd like to boil 16oz of 40* water with one .25oz coghlan tablet in under 13 minutes. Mu current cook set is under 6oz so I don't want to add several ozs to my kit to achieve this. I'm getting close but no cigar as of yet.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

I agree, I think that the goal is to improve the fuel efficiency. I have read about people getting 4 cups to boil using a single Esbit tablet. I have never been able to do that myself. If you can boil 2 cups with ½ or 4 cups with a full Esbit tablet, show us how you do it. The idea of the focusing ring was to improve the performance of the Esbit Folding Ti stove, but the bigger picture would be to understand the burning fundamentals and make a more efficient stove. My 2 cents – Jon

[Daniel Fish]

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[Daniel Fish]

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[Ian]

Thinking about two concentric tubes ventilated similarly to a gasifier stove which will double as a combustion chamber and wind shield. I'm going to try this with and without the ti wing..,, when I'm done with my family vacation in San Fran that is,

I'd like to incorporate the snow peak ti bowl into this system. Seems like a better design than my SP 700 to capture the heat.

[Ken Larson]

"Normal people … believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet."

Keep up the good work!

[Daniel Fish]

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[Bob Gross]

I've been using the Snow Peak titanium bowl for a while now with an Esbit burner. It seems to work fine.

The Snow Peak bowl has been listed several places with a weight of 1.6 ounces. That is a bit inaccurate, and 1.8 ounces is very close. For a lid, I use three layers of aluminum foil pressed together, and then a slight rim is folded. That lid is not as durable as my carbon fiber lid, but the foil can be folded and stuffed for transport.

–B.G.–

[Ken Thompson]

I concur. My bowl is 1.8 oz. also.

[Daniel Fish]

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[Steven Paris]

I just reweighed my Ti bowl. It just flicked over to 1.9 ounces.

I hate you guys.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

It seems to me like you may be putting the cart before the horse. There can be a fuel efficiency difference between small and skinny mugs verses short and squat mugs. Since your objective is to design an Esbit stove for the best fuel efficiency, testing on something wide like the K-Mart grease pot would be prudent. Once the design is tested and validated, then switch to a mug or the Snow Peak bowl and see if the results transfer. My guess is that a good windscreen will also be required. My 2 cents – Jon.

[Daniel Fish]

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[Daniel Fish]

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[Dale Wambaugh]

I recall reading that one of the issues with building Esbit holders is allowing for a little liquified fuel around the tab and that this was one of the strengths of the Gram Cracker style. Any thoughts?

Also, I've always thought the wing stoves were too low. Does anyone have any experience or data on an optimal height for a Esbit stove? The designs vary quite a bit.

I assume most of the older designs were tilted to packing efficiency. The original folding stove design incorporated fuel storage and cheap wartime mass production and warming canned rations rather than boiling. The Ti wing stoves are lightened versions of an older steel design that I believe had a military origin. In other words, not optimal designs for fuel use and/or boiling times.

[Ian]

Can't speak for the history of the ti wing design but overall Esbit's cooking systems do not make best use of their fuel. I have one of their integrated kits and it's very disappointing from a weight and fuel efficiency perspective.

They advertise .5oz of fuel to boil 16oz of water. My experience has been that .5oz is overkill but I'm having a hard time getting the job done with .25oz. Maybe .375oz is the magic number? Still shooting for .25 oz of fuel though this may be ambitious for an UL kit.

[Ian]

Are we an Esbit cult?

[Bob Gross]

"Does anyone have any experience or data on an optimal height for a Esbit stove?"

I use a titanium wing stove. I've tried some variations. What seems important is that the Esbit cube be insulated away from the cold earth, and that intake air gets to it from slightly below. Those conditions are met in the wing stove, since the Esbit cube is held a fraction of an inch above the earth. I've also built Esbit burners where the cube is held much higher, like 2 inches, and that doesn't seem to accomplish anything. I feel that the major dimension to be concerned with is from the burning cube to the pot bottom, but even that can vary depending on whether you are trying to get fuel efficiency, cooking speed, or whatever.

Many years ago I had a steel wing stove. It was OK, up to a point. The steel center pin rusted out, then the whole thing fell apart. However, titanium doesn't rust.

–B.G.–

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