The “I don’t get it” thread

Bob is correct on the highest recorded temperature, at least from the last time I checked. People do tend to exaggerate temperatures.

Craig, good call by your wife. Remember our 105F hike? 105 vs 120 is another universe.

I have lived and hiked in the lower desert for over 30 years, and like to say I am acclimated — meaning the heat affects me less than others — but we cannot truly acclimate to this kind of heat, but we can adapt or strategies for survival. Our bodies are going to work very hard to keep our core at 98.6 F; which means we are going to sweat a lot as the temperature goes up.

And as our sweating increases (evaporation in an effort to keep the core temperature at specs), we are going to lose precious body minerals, as Gary shared earlier. Lose too much in the way of body salts/minerals you will get sick and often irrational — I know, it has happened to me a couple times. Many people take salt tablets, (which upset my stomach). I like to eat Pringles, which have gotten me through some difficult situations, but salt alone is not going to replenish everything you need; not to mention your thirst increases when you eat salty foods.

I usually avoid hiking in really hot weather, but do hike in triple digits. When it gets to 108 or above, then I am hiking at night and resting under a tarp during the heat of the day… but even under a tarp I am not truly comfortable and it is difficult too sleep. Also don't assume low deserts have low humidity. Some years it is not unusual for tropical storms to come up from Mexico and 117F with a 90% chance of afternoon thunderstorms happens. You do not know what "crotch rot" is unless you have spent a week in 117F and 90% humidity. Another thing, when daytime temps hit highs of 120+ you can normally plan on the temperature at midnight to be 100+.

Here is a table from The Complete Walker, by Colin Fletcher that shows how much water is needed to survive; and survive in this table means how many days until you die.

What I find surprising is that Santa Barbara held the record temperature (133 degrees) for 75 years before Death Valley claimed the title.

Santa Barbara's Great Simoon of 1859:
http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/events/department-news/771/goleta-s-great-simoon-of-1859/

Bob is correct on the highest recorded temperature, at least from the last time I checked. People do tend to exaggerate temperatures.

Well, it’s a bit unfair to quote statistics that for the most part only come from places where people have the money to put into these surveys. Many parts of the world are probably just as hot as Death Valley, but no one has ever recorded the temperatures. It is impossible for those who do these recordings to be everywhere, especially in very remote, very poor countries that no one has an interest in going to. And how many temperatures, even in Death Valley, have turned up, but gone unrecorded because no one was there to record them?

Take a look at Dallol, Ethiopia, which has the record for the average highest temperature on Earth. Who knows what the highest temperature in this region, which is extremely remote and virtually unknown to most westerners until recently, might at one time have been?

Humidity makes a huge difference in how well one can stand the heat. At least with dry heat you can find shade and get relief that way. Even with lower temperatures, humid heat is unrelenting. You can’t get away from it unless you have an enclosed, air conditioned place. The air doesn’t cool at night. And because of the humidity your perspiration doesn’t cool you. So drinking doesn’t much help either. A fan only barely. Top that with a far greater number of insects that love the humidity, and you’ve got really miserable conditions. Getting in a sleeping bag can be awful, even a thin one. Even just a mesh canopy, which stills the air, can exacerbate the misery of the heat. Your clothes are constantly wet from perspiration, but synthetics don’t breathe well, so that makes them feel hotter, and they stick to you. Cotton, silk, linen, hemp, pineapple, and bamboo cloth are the only materials that work in these conditions. Wool just feels very hot and holds all your moisture. The danger here is not hypothermia, but hyperthermia, over-heating. You can get very sick and die from heat exhaustion or heat stroke. If the temperature gets high enough, there is a point where just walking takes too much energy. That’s why most Southeast Asians get up at dawn, when it is slightly cooler, take a break during mid-day, and are again active in the evening. They think a lot of sun-burned, red-skinned, rolling-with-sweat western tourists have lost their minds.

"Well, it's a bit unfair to quote statistics that for the most part only come from places where people have the money to put into these surveys. Many parts of the world are probably just as hot as Death Valley, but no one has ever recorded the temperatures."

True.

But for most of us anything over 120F is going to mean death if we go hiking for a few days. So… 134, 137, 139 really doesn't mean a lot.

Hope this isn't a drift, sand or otherwise, but I don't get Merino wool socks in summer.
Not only in the desert, but anywhere. Merino socks, even in a blend, make my feet sweat, which results in blisters. Moisture management, my…!

A lot of peoples' mileage varies on this one.

For me, the problem is that you can't find non-merino blends anywhere anymore, except online. I sense a marketing trend.

To paraphrase Andy Warhol, "In the future, every sheep will be merino for 15 minutes (right at sheering time)."

Jeffrey, are you wearing very thin merino wool socks? That's the key. Many people turn to wool sock liners instead of regular socks, as their main sock in the summer. Even a little thicker, and the wool socks become saunas in the summer.

Another alternative is to not wear socks at all. Have you tried hiking sandals? In very hot temperatures there's nothing as comfortable. Just be careful not to let your feet get sunburned. Since a lot of people wear shoes all year long, their feet may not be acclimated to exposure to the sun. I use Chacos Z2's (with the toe loop… makes them much more stable on descents and sidehilling). Wish I could find something lighter, but not as light as, and with better grip than huaraches.

But for most of us anything over 120F is going to mean death if we go hiking for a few days. So… 134, 137, 139 really doesn't mean a lot.

Last summer when I was in the Pyrenees I had to deal with 40ºC to 42ºC dry heat. I'd never hiked in dry heat conditions before at those temperatures. It gets hot here in Japan, but usually never higher than 40ºC, with 95~100% humidity. So I thought I was used to the heat. Little did I know just how fast dry heat takes the moisture out of your body. In Japan I'm usually okay with, at most, 2 liters of water during the day while hiking, but I quickly found that I needed at least 4 liters in the Pyrenees, just for drinking as I walked. I've never needed to use my aluminized umbrella here in Japan, but used it everyday in the Pyrenees. Gave me a very healthy respect for desert-like conditions, and encouraged me to learn a lot more about desert walking before I attempted anything more ambitious!

Miguel: yep,you're right, I haven't tried very thin merino socks in the summer. But I like a bit of padding. I don't "get" why I would give that up for the "benefit" of wearing skinny wool. And then, thanks for the suggestion, but hiking sandals won't work for me.

I think that this just comes down to anatomy and physiology. Everyone has to work out their own system.

I was going to buy a couple pairs of the Thorlo merino wool ankle running socks. It has a minimal amount of padding but from reading your concerns this sounds like a no-go? This will be my first season in 100% trail runners (I've used hybrids or boots in the past) and I've always worn a traditional wool sock. My feet would sweat a ton in them and they would take forever to dry so I was hoping the merino wool Thorlos were going to do the trick but now I'm starting to second guess that logic and looking at the cool max version.

http://www.rei.com/product/798136/thorlo-experia-merino-woolsilk-running-socks-mens

Miguel: yep,you're right, I haven't tried very thin merino socks in the summer. But I like a bit of padding. I don't "get" why I would give that up for the "benefit" of wearing skinny wool.

Everyone is different, of course, and I won't try to contradict what you feel works and doesn't work for you. I'm just confused as to why, if you use running shoes to hike in like I do, that you would need extra padding? Nearly every running shoe, except barefoot shoes, that I've ever used has more than enough padding, even without socks. Perhaps you are using boots… that that might be the difference. I haven't used boots in over 13 years.

Ian, I'm guessing if you've been wearing boots they're probably been waterproof which won't do you any favors if your socks get wet. I think you'll be surprised at how much more comfortable your feet will be in trail runners, especially in hot weather. Instead of steaming in their own sweat all day, your feet will be able to get some fresh air. The only time I don't wear trail runners is when I'm doing trail maintenance or when there's snow. Oh, and I wear merino socks year-round too :)

Adam

The logic makes sense. With the gear upgrades I'm making for this season, I hopefully will keep my total pack weight at or under 20lbs. I'll try a liner type sock with whatever trail runners I end up with and see how it goes.

I also converted to lightweight socks pretty much year round. I used to hike in mid weight wool socks because that's what most of the socks were at REI so it had to be right. After playing around with liners and dress socks I finally locked onto Coolmax Wrightsocks. These are very lightweight double layer socks which are about the weight of two pairs of liner socks. These have allowed my feet to breathe and stay cool.

So, now for my "don't get it". I don't get why most BPing folks stay isolated in the BPing little world instead of looking outside of BPing into adjacent areas such as endurance biking and trail running to solve problems such as nutrition and footwear. The socks referenced above came out of the running world and much of the maltodextrin based nutrition products were developed for the endurance running and biking world. These adjecent areas have orders of magnitude more money and attention devoted to them and the demands are every bit as harsh if not more extreme than the typical backpacker encounters. I just don't get it!!! :)

Hiking Malto, I'm not sure how long you've been around BPL, but for the first 8 years or so, this whole community was extremely wide-ranging and excited about new ideas. Everyday someone from other discipline would post something or other about what people were doing in running, in bicycling, in fishing, scuba diving, kayaking, why even traditional mountain hunters in Japan! It's died down a lot since then, and not a lot of new ideas are flowing anymore. Most of the members here are involved in far more than BPL; a lot of the long-term members I know, including myself, are bicycle travelers, hammock campers, mountaineers, and fishermen. Look in the archives. I think you will be quite surprised.

LOL Yea GG how long you been around this place ;) 1000 posts is apparently chump change now haha

Miguel: I wear boots. So yes, that's the difference maker I guess.

I agree with you guys the desert is an awful and ugly place.

Edit wont let me up load my picture sarcasm^^

Hey, I spent 15 minutes at the Grand Canyon and was ready to go.
It's the same color everywhere with a river waaayyy down there.

'Edit wont let me up load my picture sarcasm'

I've been looking for a keyboard with built-in sarcasm and irony keys for years.

When it's warmer out, or i'm using my WP"B" shoes, i use a very thin sock made out of 88% Linen and 12% Polyester supposedly. I say supposedly, because i bought them very cheap off of ebay, from someone who apparently bought them straight from China, because there was only Chinese on the packaging. I did look up the characters, and it seemed to say Linen and Polyester. In any case, i like to wear these even when i wear sandals also.

Very nice, very cool, and surprisingly tough/durable so far–especially considering how thin they are.

"Craig, if one location has too many people for your liking, why not go to another location?

Also, we would have to operate under the assumption that if they took the permits away that there would be a flood of people into national parks. I am willing to entertain the idea as plausible, but I also think it would be possible that after a certain amount of time if this flood of people happened, that it the novelty would be gone and things would go back to "normal" or maybe even less people afterwards because people moved on to other locations."

Lets take a look at the Yosemite half dome trail. The trail is about 100 years old and when it opened there were a few trees on top of half dome. The last tree was cut down for firewood a long time ago. permits were not required. Originally very few people hiked up to half dome. The trail was only open in the summer months the trail is too dangerous in the winter. The last 500 feet of the hike is marked by two cable hand rails which most people need.

in 2010 on average 800 people per day went up the trial. On a busy holiday weekend in July or September the number could go to over 1000 per day. Most of the people are not from California. A larger percentage of people a large percentage of Asians and Europeans as well as others from north america come to see the park. Most will only visit once in there life and large percentage want to hike the trails in the valley area (half dome being the most famous).

The large number of hikers caused safety issues at half dome. Signs warn to get off of half dome in the event of bad weather. However do to the traffic jams on the cables many could not get off. Others would go around the people on the cables to get up or down. One slip could cause you to fall to your death. In one bad month (I think it was in 2010) there were 4 deaths in one month. Shortly thereafter the park service instituted a permit system. there is a $5000 fine for hiking it without a permit.

You would think that the crowds would discouraging people from hiking Mt Whitney, the john Muir trail and half dome. But historically that has not happened in any of the national parks. Visitation rates in many of the nationally parks has been steadily rising for decades.

http://www.backpacker.com/october_08_americas_10_most_dangerous_hikes_mist_trail_half_dome_ca/destinations/12629

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/mb_post_form.html?po=reply&note_id=638131&forum_thread_id=74499

I don't get Half Dome permits as currently implemented. There are smart people at the NPS so why can't they look at the underlying causes of those deaths (people on the cables during late afternoon thunderstorms – not due to lightening, I only know of one lightening death on HD, but from slipping on wet rock). Instead they look at correlations – deaths on 800+ visitation days (which slows down everyone's travel and results in more people on the cables in late afternoon).

My idea/wish/desire/comment to the NPS: There's one right way to climb HD in the summer, IMNSHO: leave early. 5 am is great. 6 am is okay. 7 am not so good. Those deaths? I'm pretty sure they were all/most all of people who left at 9 and 10 and 11 am. Which meant they hiked in the heat of the day, in full sun, went slower because of it, and were on the cables in the late afternoon. Late afternoon is when the Sierra has its thunderstorms and is essentially the only time that rock is wet from May to September.

My proposed system: Anyone can print out a "permit" from a website. It explains the rules and gives safety guidelines. There's a time/date-stamp machine at Happy Isles. You must be within the first 200 people if you get your permit time-stamped AFTER 7 am. If you get time-stamped before 7 am, there's no limit. If you have a backpacking permit (which already have their own quotas) for a different trailhead, you are also allowed. Maybe there's a time-stamp machine in LYV for those backpacking to ensure they too get an early start.

This would mean far fewer people there in the dangerous afternoon then the current permit system (400 with no time constraint, so many start late) AND it would allow more people to see/enjoy/challenge themselves on this iconic hike.

It would cost almost nothing to administrate, nothing to hikers, and be easy to enforce – proper time-stamp: you're good, no time-stamp: expensive fine.

It would be to my personal detriment, because in addition to beating the sun and the heat, I also like beating the crowds. My last time up, I saw NO ONE the whole way and only 6 people joined me on top before I left at sunrise (I hit the trail at 2 am).

David, agreed.

The last time that I went up Half Dome, we started from the campground at 6 a.m. and hit the top before 9:30 a.m., so our hikers were almost the only ones around. But then after early lunch, we were heading down when the hoards of tourists were headed up the cables. It was a mess.

However, you can't expect tourists to start hiking much before 8 or 9 a.m. Remember, it is their vacation.

–B.G.–