Ray Jardine examines Cuben Fiber

Thank you for the info Jennifer, good to know I won't gain any weight to speak of with my new Hexamid, which should be down at the Post Office after a slight mix up.
Duane

"Nevermind"

I just love Emily Litella!

Hhahahahahahahaha Susan!!!!!

We need MORE violins on television!!!!!

What's all this FUSS I keep hearing… about endangered feces?

–B.G.–

After being highly disappointed with Ray's last book I promptly donated it to my library. I didn't learn anything useful in it beyond training for a long distance trip.

Therefore what Ray has to say about Cuben fabric could not interest me less.

Now Andrew Skurka's opinion is another matter entirely.There is a man worth listening to.

In this and other threads there is a lot of lively talk about the value (or lack thereof) of Jardine's opinions. What I would like to know from BPL folks is this…

1. Has anyone used one of his pack kits or know of anyone who has?

2. When hiking any of the big three…AT, PCT, CDT…have you ever encountered anyone using one of Jardine's packs?

The reason I ask is if you have sewing skills, they are really inexpensive and pretty darn light. I am not sure I would want one for a thru hike but they might be worth having for a UL trip.

What do y'all think?

Gerry

I went to the page in question and one of the first things I saw was a magazine article that started with "A god to climbers and ultralight backpackers alike…" I didn't need to see anymore.

Honestly, the guy has done some impressive stuff, and there is always room to learn in life. But to think that if I found some good advice on his site and followed it then I am doing things the "Ray-Way" , well screw that.

I've never used his packs as my shoulders don't like that much pressure. But I have built several tarps using his kits and I really like them a lot. The umbrella is a great idea too, very useful here in the east.

MB: he compares 1.35 silnylon to 0.51 cuben, a factor of 2.5 x lighter material. Why doesnt he compare it to 0.74 or 1.0 or 1.4 cuben? Because he would look foolish, thats why. Those materials, although lighter or equal to silnylon still, are much much stronger than the 0.51.

Most important post within this thread.

I've made and used one. I have rudimentary sewing skills, it took a loooong time to make and frameless isn't for me, though I didn't know it then. One could make the thing with some hardware store aluminum stays and an aftermarket hipbelt and maybe shoulder staps and have a functional if frankensteinish pack.

Ray is a paranoid nut job, his wife Jenny is a nice lady who balances out his abrasiveness.

I made his insulated hat. Fairly easy to do, but it rustles to much against my ears to sleep in (too noisy). He suggested ear plugs. I think nylon fabric has too much 'microphonics' to be against your ears.

Steve

This test instantly made me think of his chapter on water, in which makes makes numerous unsubstantiated claims about how water will heal almost every ailment. I particularly liked claim that

"In particular, if you know anyone who suffers back pain, neck pain, headache, migraine, anginal pain, high blood pressure, hypertension, high blood cholesterol, asthma, allergies, some types of diabetes, dyspeptic pain, colitis pain, false appendicitis pain, rheumatoid arthritis pain, stress, and depression,"

are all linked to dehydration. It seems the Ray-Way does not include the scientific method.

I drink a lot of water and still have a pinched nerve in my back. Maybe I am not swallowing it the Ray-Way.

He might be onto something there. I find drinking helps when depressed.

NM, he's talking about water.

George, you have to swallow the meme first, doncha know?

I had never heard that story behind the origin of Friends. I was thoroughly agnostic in my opinion of Jardine – not knowing a whole lot about him anyway – but that certainly changes my view!

Someone asked if anyone had done a major thru-hike with Jardine's pack or tarp. I thought I saw some on the 2014 PCT blogs, so I checked:

Rayway backpack on PCT (slightly modded design): https://stevenjshattuck.wordpress.com/2014/02/23/gear-making-the-ray-way-backpack/

Rayway tarp on PCT (they used it all the way to Canada): http://www.oneofmanycircles.com/2014/04/20/still-sewing/

Thanks, Valerie. That is exactly what I was looking for.
Gerry

Ray's contribution to UL backpacking has long passed. PERIOD.

Jardine is an iconoclast who dared to think outside the box and codify UL technique. He wasn't the first, but he did concoct a system of techniques and got the word out. His core concepts still hold.

But you don't turn off the iconoclast switch! He has ranted on about odd food preferences and other subjects that sound crackpot to me. Kind of a classic engineering type to me :)

Being on this great forum we all know what a crock that video is. But I have to admit that back in the day (early 90s) when I first got into lightening my backpack Ray's books held some good advice and knowledge for me. Really, his 2 books, the PCT hikers handbook & Beyond Backpacking, and backpacking.net were my only resources on trying to figure out the lighter weight way to enjoying the outdoors more.

How about the "Ray-Way wash bag". Gets things twice as clean because the confined space causes more "vigorous agitation".

Add that to the list…

Steve

I hiked a couple days with a guy who made his own down sleeping bag and a Ray Jardine pack. He was happy with both items and proud of his self-reliance. I have made one of the Ray Jardine bomber hats. I love that thing even though I look ridiculous in it.

My friend Happy Hour made a Ray Way pack and used it for the entire PCT in 2013. His sewing skills before he made it were non-existent, and as a result he was quite surprised it held up. He had an old Exos waiting in the wings if his pack failed, but it never did. Also with his lack of skill he spent 32 hours making the pack, learning to sew as he went. So I assume if you have reasonable sewing skills it will probably hold up.

The beauty of Ray's kits are the instructions are really good. In high school I got a D in sewing. I couldn't figure out the pattern instructions. I was surprised when I made that hat. It didn't go together anything like I might have imagined, and when I pulled the thing together, turning it right-side out, and the whole thing suddenly became a hat, I was really surprised. My seams are a little wonky but the thing is solid.

I read all of this Jardine bashing, And slept on it… And here is my $0.02.
He indeed may be a schmuck… But doesn't he deserve some credit here? Isn't he at least indirectly responsible for most of us being on this forum in the first place? His book was first published in 1992. Did it not revolutionize Backpacking Philosophy and technique, and help a ton of people go lighter?
Bob Gross will cite a magazine article that was a few years ahead of the book, thank you Bob, but I don't think it revolutionized anything, did it?

Jardine disassembled the entire entity, analyzed each individual piece with his engineer-critical, often very cynical, at times paranoid, out of the box mindset… and reassembled it one piece at a time, beginning with the most important piece of all: our Why. Why do we backpack? If we do so to enjoy ourselves, does it not follow that lightening the load on our back would improve our enjoyment? The result of the book is a whole new approach, perspective, philosophy. I enjoy his unique perspective on many topics…his cantankerous take on "nutritionally bankrupt" foods for example, and reading about katabatic air flow, especially as pertains to campsite selection.

I just wanted to attempt to add "balance" to the bashing. I learned years ago that when you "point the finger at someone, look at your hand – there are 3 fingers pointing back at YOU".