Nov 13, 2012 at 8:29 pm #1296041
@maiaLocale: Rocky Mountains
Companion forum thread to:Nov 13, 2012 at 8:53 pm #1928192
Gotta show my dad this article next Saturday.
He'll be rolling on the floor.
Fishnet underwear for cold wet weather was made in South Western England in the early forties for British Commandos during World war 2.
Thats why my dad will laugh.
He rememebers the people of his village in Pendeen, Penzance in Cornwall, being paid to weave the mesh clothing and none of them at that time could understand what it's use could be.
What is old is new again indeed.
Great work and well done article.Nov 13, 2012 at 9:33 pm #1928200
@justin_bakerLocale: Santa Rosa, CA
I don't get it… how is this any different from wearing no base layer at all?Nov 13, 2012 at 11:14 pm #1928218
Lars Laird IversenParticipant
Wow! Finally something we Norwegians do well!
I have a Brynje Antarctic, which is a double layer with synthetic mesh closest to the skin, attached to a layer of non-mesh merino. I absolutely love it. In very cold conditions, it lets me still feel light and comfortable. The best thing about it though, is that it is so versatile. As Ryan pointed out when talking about packrafting, it is comfortable when you really work hard, and then – when you stop – it is STILL keeping you warm and dry.
It does chafe, though. Nipples, beware!Nov 14, 2012 at 1:06 am #1928220
@derekoakLocale: North of England
A long time ago I had one. It was only cotton and not fine mesh. It had its advantages but as has been mentioned it was uncomfortable under straps, over nipples and at seams where it was thick. I remember under the armpit. To me the Aclima idea of solid panels at these points would be the best of all worlds. perhaps finer merino mesh would allow some of these areas to be kept mesh. Or maybe I was a softie.Nov 14, 2012 at 2:45 am #1928224
carlos fernandez rivasParticipant
@pitagorinLocale: Galicia -Spain
I´been using fishet base layers for the last 20 years…
Here in Europe are easy to find and lot of cycling apparel brands have fishnet shirts sometimes much cheaper than outdoor brands. To test the concept this cyling shirst could be the best option
About the disadvantages as a standalone garment well … I suspect that is clear that this garments are designed as a undergarment.Nov 14, 2012 at 5:57 am #1928237
@jamesdmarcoLocale: Finger Lakes
Thanks, Guys!Nov 14, 2012 at 6:36 am #1928245
I still use my old polypropylene fishnet shirt I got from L.L. Bean at least 20 years ago. Great for cooler hikes.Nov 14, 2012 at 7:00 am #1928252
Nice article Ryan and Mike – I like the "out of box" thinking
I agree, the wicking concept is more marketing than anything useful
Once you sweat, it's going to take heat to evaporate it, doesn't matter if it gets wicked away from your skin
Maybe it's better to have the sweat stay next to your skin until it evaporates, because that might tend to reduce sweating?Nov 14, 2012 at 8:16 am #1928272
@ryanLocale: Northern Rockies
The concept of keeping sweat next to skin is an important one to understand, and capitalize on when it happens.
This of course is the beauty of VB clothing and why it is so effective.
When you wear wicking clothes, you lose this sensory perception of discomfort and end up overloading your clothing system with moisture. Then you stop, rest, and "flash off" all that moisture and need a fat parka to combat it.
I suppose I would hypothesize that they more you pay attention to the sensation of sweating, and can sense it when it happens, and make layering / ventilation adjustments accordingly, the drier you'll stay and thus, the lighter your clothing system might become.
But this requires thinking, work, fiddling, and perhaps, additional complexity in the process of layering/adjusting.Nov 14, 2012 at 8:16 am #1928273
@owareLocale: Steptoe Butte
I have a set from my Dad that is thick and all wool. The bottoms work really well to
prevent overheating when worn under nylon pants and keep the cold wind from frosting the front of my legs. Work good this way for mosquito too.
The top is good for ski skating, but not so good under a heavy pack.Nov 14, 2012 at 8:36 am #1928280
Carlos wrote: "About the disadvantages as a standalone garment well … I suspect that is clear that this garments are designed as a undergarment."
Yes, certainly. But lightweight backpackers are always looking to minimize weight, often by system integration and multiple use of items. Since fishnet doesn't work well as a sole layer, we have to carry another layer that can serve that role in warmer conditions.
Jerry wrote: "Maybe it's better to have the sweat stay next to your skin until it evaporates, because that might tend to reduce sweating?"
I agree. Except at high exertion levels, if you are sweating, you are too warm. If you are too warm, you want the sweat to cool you. Having it evaporate off of your skin is a good way to do this. If you wick the sweat away from the skin, a) the wicking layer then insulates your skin from the sweat as it evaporates, and b) the wicking layer wets out more easily.
I also want to note that the fibers of a fishnet shirt, be they cotton, poly, or wool, still provide some wicking that improves next-to-skin comfort. But, they simply wick less than a more densely knit/woven shirt due to their much lower skin contact surface area.
MikeNov 14, 2012 at 9:33 am #1928291
Yes. LL Bean sold this in the 80s. The bottoms were painful when you were sitting
They looked like you walked on the wild side.
They seemed to work well for mE. I used them for downhill
Forgot all about them.Nov 14, 2012 at 9:55 am #1928299
Maybe the wicking should go the other direction – towards your skinNov 14, 2012 at 9:59 am #1928301
Jerry wrote: "Maybe the wicking should go the other direction – towards your skin"
Ha! I like to reverse directionally-wicking baselayers (like Powerdry) for that reason to control how warm they are — Wear the fuzzy side in for maximum warmth; wear the fuzzy side out when it's too warm.Nov 14, 2012 at 12:03 pm #1928333
@ikeLocale: Central Michigan
Thanks for the informative article. I think I finally have my wife convinced about the benefits of fishnets for moisture management. Now if only you could provide an article documenting the use of corsets for lumbar support…Nov 14, 2012 at 12:11 pm #1928335
trail running in cool to cold conditions can be a challenge when it comes to staying even moderately dry; I'd be willing to give fishnet a try- where in the US can aclimba or brynje be sourced stateside?Nov 14, 2012 at 1:05 pm #1928346
Is Brynje available in the US?Nov 14, 2012 at 1:28 pm #1928349
If you google "fishnet shirt" you can find fishnet shirts, but they're more costume oriented, or X ratedNov 14, 2012 at 1:39 pm #1928351
Thank you for the great article and research. Were the items used in the testing procured in the U.S.? From online dealers?Nov 14, 2012 at 1:59 pm #1928354
@davecLocale: Crown of the ContinentNov 14, 2012 at 3:47 pm #1928375
Michael wrote: "Is Brynje available in the US?"
I've purchased Brynje from Reliable Racing (www.reliableracing.com) in the past. I'm not sure what items they currently carry.Nov 14, 2012 at 6:05 pm #1928394
@fluffinreach-comLocale: no. california
peter tried introducing fishnet to the bpl group in the late 90's, and it just has to be better now that they added wool. as a poly only fabric, it was ok, but not as versatile for the weight as a light wt merino zip-t.
the initial idea at that time was as spaced armor in defense of insects, while keeping cool enough to cover ground. at the same time, we thought it might help add padding and some warmth on coolish days.
it's still a valid concept, and it need not be right on the skin to insulate, as it provides a handy way to increase depth between any two layers.
you need to be careful not to appear in public in this stuff .. it can trash your rep.
v.Nov 14, 2012 at 6:22 pm #1928398
"you need to be careful not to appear in public in this stuff .. it can trash your rep."
As my wife calls them wife beater t-shirts. These look too similar.Nov 14, 2012 at 6:52 pm #1928408
@mcd57Locale: Middle TN
I read that it was used in the 1940's. They also had it available in the 1970's. Surprised it took so long to come to the attention of this site. Thanks for the article.
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