Question for Franco the Rainbow Warrior

[Franco Darioli]

Ben, if I could have the same relationship with Petra Hilleberg that I have with Henry, I would gladly swap. ( nothing to do with tent design, BTW)
That is my main problem with the BD Lighthouse as a winter tent, no vestibule, and if Glen thinks the Rainbow is fiddly, try to fit the BD vestibule to the Lighthouse…
I did send to BD a design of a 6oz or so vestibule for the Lighthouse (in silnylon) they came back with the standard "we'll pass it on to the design team" bit and never heard from them. I noted that the Skylight has one…
The Unna was originally designed with a larger interior ( possibly big enough even for you) in place of a vestibule, and that is fair enough for the long Scandinavian winter.The problem is that enough people want to buy it as a year around tent and do not want to take boots and wet gear inside it.
I would expect an unsupported vestibule, maybe another 8 to 10oz ?
Of course they could come out with a lighter fabric (for the inner) and keep the same total weight including the vestibule…..
If you don't really want a freestanding, the already have the Nallo for around that weight.
Franco

John, if you are still here…., what is your size ? I think that you mentioned that already but I am too lazy to look it up

( to understand the subject it helps to be Italian )

[paul johnson]

Franco,

Please describe your experiences with the Vela (was that the Extreme or Mesh version you've seen/used?). If you're up to it, please talk about ventilation, condensation, setup, fiddle-factor to get a proper pitch, space, sliding vestibule entry, rain entry with vestibule partway up, and any other interesting or funny thoughts that pop into your mind as you write.

I'm particularly wondering if the full no-see-um mesh on the current Vela Mesh will prove better than the Akto's nylon inner tent with little bug mesh in humid, or more condensation prone conditions.

Many thanks in advance for your reply.

[Franco Darioli]

PJ
In this case my experience is only about size and set up, in other words it is limited to me playing with the Extreme inside a shop, a do a bit of that..
At the same time as I fiddle with the tents I visualize myself in the bush with them working out obvious benefits/problems.
From European accounts sounds like the Vela is the three season equivalent of the Akto, in other words pretty much the same with mild weather but less snow worthy.( stronger fabric and pole)
My interest in this design (incidentally there are several tents like this) has to do with the weight for space ratio on a possibly four season worthy shelter.( big vestibule as well) As with the Akto you can also double pole the Vela
Franco
If you know of any wealthy person that can sponsor me, I am willing to go out and test any tent you like in any weather, full time.
I have just quit my job after 22 years so I will need something to do.

[paul johnson]

Franco, many thanks for the swift reply.

>>"quit my job"

Hope everything turns out well for you – maybe start your own business – selling gear, or photography, or selling nature photos, or teaching UL skills?

I'm envious of you. In my case, counting today, only 2160 more CALENDAR days until retirement (actual number – no joke), but who's counting?

[Matthew Swierkowski]

Glenn you Tarptent hater be gone…I'm just kidding. I'm sure everyone has their own item that others would disagree with. Mine is probably my McHale pack. It's a little over 4 lbs, but I ain't leaving home without it cause it's just to darn comfortable.

As for Tarptents I have been using a Squall for a couple of years and just got a Double Rainbow at the end of last year. I have had the Squall out in all kinds of weather and it has perfromed nicely. I would like to note that I hike in the SE, and I have always felt that the Tarptents are excellent for forested (sheltered) areas. If hiking in an open area exposed to heavy wind I might would consider an alternative.

To all you Akto owners, I also have an Akto. I agree with the headroom issue, and have a little more trouble with the headroom than others (I'm 6'-5"). The problem is that I just haven't found a better tent than the Akto for my uses. The headroom issue aside it is an excellent tent. It can handle nasty weather, and it has a wonderful large and well protected vesitbule (I like keeping all my stuff either in my tent or in the vestibule if I have that option). I normally just sleep in my tents, so headroom is not a real big concern with me.

[John Haley]

I think that John and I had slightly different expectations of/for the Akto when we received them within a week of each other. I wanted a bombproof 4 season place to sleep in and never expected to live in the tent or need any real spaciousness; as such it's fulfilled what I wanted. OK, I agree that it's very tight to change clothes in, but that's about the extent that I've used it for outside of sleeping.

Don't tell anyone, but I'm actually considering a Contrail for my thru hike of the LT. Hey, a two pound difference is two pounds less to carry. That would get my base weight down under 14 pounds since I could then switch to my lighter pack, too.

[Jim Colten]

"nonsense"
That's a tad harsh isn't it?

I hesitated over that word for a moment, wasn't trying to be harsh..

The meaning I had in mind was that it probably made no sense to say "best" when talking about a choice where objectives/needs/preferences are so diverse.

[John Baird]

Ah well…I didn’t mean to be as negative as it appeared. But I have to say the nor’easter really beat the heck out of me that night so I guess I took it out on the Akto.
Yes, there was a good deal of condensation. When I sat up and my head brushed the inside of the tent, my hair was soaked. That’s not good in 20f temps. To be fair, if I had done as the Hilleberg people suggest, which is to open the end vents and the one upper vent above the door to get some cross ventilation going. But it was really serious weather and, well, you know.

John, I can’t say we’re on the same page. That is to say I use the tent to sleep as well but there are times you must spend a few more hours than expected in the shelter. I have never began a hike in the middle of a blizzard and would most probably look to wait it out before hitting the trail again although I must say that walking in the elements can, at times, make a real nice day.
I pitched the tent on a hill and never stopped sliding down to one end. Wow, so uncomfortable. Any ideas how to Velcro everything down for a slip less night?

Dave, no It’s the inner tent that rained.

Jim, your such a diplomat.

PJ, what a great idea for the no see um mesh. Implementation may be difficult but I think my wife has a few ideas about sewing it in. definitely get back to you on that. I also asked her to help sew a few windows so I could see what’s going on around the digs. Not asking for too much, am I?

Franco, I’m coming up on 59 years of age, 190 lbs. and 5’10” My belly and pack waist strap don’t get along at all.

Ben, yes I agree, space is good. This is after all supposed to be a fun sport and I’d also like to have a personal Sherpa…..is that asking too much?
So…you know a lot about the dead, do you?

To sum it up, I’ll be using he outer skin and no inner tent for a while. I think it will be the closest thing to a tarp tent and will knock off some weight as well. It will be an excellent shelter adding a few inches for head room and plenty of space for cooking in inclement weather.

Keep on keep’n on

John

[Franco Darioli]

Thanks John,

Now we know that there is nothing wrong with the length of the Akto, the problem is you, you are just too tall.

As a suggestion to anyone that wants to be into light backpacking, around 5' 4" is the height limit. Glen Van Peski is exempt because he is a born masochist anyway so he does not need any comforts.

The quick response unit was in action at Tarptent Inc. Keep an eye on the Rainbows.

Franco

[paul johnson]

John,

I wonder if the condensation you experienced (i've read of such before w/the Akto) is the reason Exped switched the inner tent on the Vela from something somewhat similar (or so i was told by a retailer) to the Akto to the all-no-see-um mesh, necessitating a name change from Vela Extreme to Vela Mesh.

Clearly the all mesh is not as warm in winter.

I'd really like to know how the Akto would have performed had you kept the vents open. Oh well, maybe next blizzard?

i'm ~30 or so miles north of you in So. CT, we got hammered also (i'm only ~10mile inland from New Haven harbor). We received nearly 10" of very wet, heavy stuff, but the intermittent periods of sleet was worse as it compacted the snow leaving the nearly 10". Nearly 4h and 50m of shoveling due to the hard, icy nature of the snow, when 90min to 2hr would normally suffice.

We're gettin' a lot more easterners and no. easterners on these Forums (over 2.5yrs ago, i was maybe one of two or so who posted – i'm think others were probably "skulking"). Skurka is even from a town near Fall River where my wife grew up. I think one of my "outlaws" (a bro-in-law) lives near him (Skurka's maybe[???] even cut me off while driving – they're crazy drivers out that way!). We should get an annual BPL Jamboree of sorts going out this way, or organize some group treks.

[John Baird]

PJ

I like the idea of some group trecks. I'm realy getting tired of talking to myself out there.
By the way, do I have enough BLP Rank points to get a few more esbit tabs yet?

John

[David Ure]

nm

[Glenn Roberts]

After reading the rest of the thread (and being shamed by Matthew! – just kidding), I've been nagged by a persistent thought: the Rainbow is objectively great; everyone else likes it a lot; I really want to like it – so what's holding me back?

Reflecting on my weekend experience, it occurred to me that I was comparing the process of setting up the Rainbow in the woods to the process of setting up the Hubba in my memory (where days are always clear, campsites are always flat and root-free, and guylines never tangle.) So, I tried one my famous basement experiments last night.

I set up my Hubba and my Rainbow, side by side, at the same time. Funny, the Rainbow wasn't really much more fiddly than the Hubba. Hmmm…is my memory that bad?

So, I may have to rethink my position and continue to try the Rainbow – maybe I'll make Franco, Matthew, and the rest of you proud of me yet!

Perhaps tents work like girl/boyfriends: when you break up with one you really like, the "rebound" guy/gal can never measure up to the memory of the one you left behind. I'm thinking the Rainbow is my "rebound" tent, and perhaps I can work through this. After all, I tried it once with a girl; my "rebound girl" and I will celebrate our 36th anniversary this year. On the other hand, this is a TENT we're talking about…

[John Baird]

So has this broken down to tent vs tarp?
David, take it easy man. I did it, I'm guilty leaving the vents closed and then said that tarp word.
Glenn, such passion, I thought mt feelings for my '66 mustang were a little over the top but this gear thing is a whole other level.
I love it!

[David Ure]

nm

[Franco Darioli]

Glenn

We already knew that it was you and not the Rainbow but were far too polite to tell you. (note to oneself :learn to be less diplomatic)

Seriously, I don't think for a minute that the Rainbow is the only shelter people should consider, there will be other Tarptents coming out.

Memories. One of the bits of wisdom that I try to instil during my training sessions, is to never underestimate how memories are based on what we like to remember not reality.

Think of how sharp your growing up pictures were compared with your latest, now put them side by side and see if they still look the same as they did in your memory.

When I was 20 years old, the pictures in the National Geographic magazine where absolutely amazing, great colours, incredibly sharp. If I sold an SLR now that took pictures like that I would be taken to the small claim tribunal. If you don't believe me , find a 20 30 year old National Geographic and have a good look at those shots.

Of course printing quality has something to do with this, nevertheless it still shows how our memory works.

Franco

[Glenn Roberts]

Franco, in the end (and after a night spent in each, back-to-back), I just couldn't abandon my Hubba. For better or worse (or orange fly), I've concluded it's the perfect tent for me. The TarpTent was everything it was billed to be – except it felt like sleeping in a motel instead of my house. The next night, in the Hubba, was like coming home. I can't explain it any better than to say that I'm just not an ultralighter at heart, and I bleed MSR-red when cut.

On the bright side, I gave someone who already knew he wanted one a pretty good bargain on a very lightly used Tarptent Rainbow. Win-win?

I really do want to thank you for putting up with me. My first experience with a TarpTent (Virga 2) was quite underwhelming. My experience with the Rainbow convinced me that this is a truly innovative, high-caliber product that I'd unhesitatingly recommend anyone else consider – as long as they don't force me to choose one. Thanks again.

[EndoftheTrail]

Hi Glenn:

I own both a tarptent (Rainbow) and double wall tent (BA Seedhouse 2 SL). I think I know how you feel.

Last year, I hiked up Mt. Whitney — parts of which were strenous (for me anyway). Without any hesitation, I took the Rainbow with me, as I was most interested in minimizing my pack weight. It worked beautifully — and except for one mishap due to the very dry air, the Rainbow was a joy to use.

Next month, I have a rather leisurely hike planned for Canyonlands, Utah. But this time, the tent I'll be reaching for will be my beloved Seedhouse! Where weight is not the absolute highest priority, I won't hesitate to carry an extra pound — to better enjoy — using your analogy above — the comforts of home, rather than a stay at a motel.

T's the reason why I own both…

[David Ure]

nm

[Denis Hazlewood]

Ben,
Was the "dry air" mishap when there was a static electricity discharg that ignighted the alcohol you were pouring into your cat stove, that exploded in a fireball that consumed your total food supply, forcing you to subsist on handouts for the whole of your John Muir Trail trip, being a true ultra light experience?

Free association is the bane of my existence.

[Glenn Roberts]

David: "Was" a Salathe owner – the Hubba replaced it for just a few ounces more in weight (combined Salathe + 8×10 Siltarp = 3 pounds; Hubba =3.5 pounds) and a lot more in convenience.

[EndoftheTrail]

David, I KNOW you own many more than just two tents! :)

Denis – my mishap has actually happened to others as well — and Henry has made changes in all new Rainbows since late last year.

As most of us know, silnylon will expand when wet, which is why there's always a need to retighten the guylines after initial set up, and especially after a rain.

But did you know that silnylon will shrink when it's really dry — such as atop Mt. Whitney? When setting up my Rainbow, the tent had shrunk so much that the longitudinal pole was at least 3 inches too long and couldn't be inserted into the end grommets! It took me and my buddy about 45 minutes to finally stretch the thing enough to set up the tent. Of course, the tent was also impossible to take down, so I had to cut the strap to free it. Luckily, it was our last day anyway — because otherwise, cutting the strap makes the tent impossible to set up again.

Henry repaired the strap, but also lengthened it and added a plastic buckle so now, the length is adjustable.

[John Baird]

Head room in the AKTO Solved

The best tent in the world has always had a flaw. ( you know…the one thing I’m always whining about ) HEAD ROOM

It’s in there, you just have to know how to get it.

1) Take a look at the straps that connect the inner to the outer tent. Some are as much as 4 inches in length.
A) Cut them down to 1 inch. (adds almost 2”)
2) Take a look at the distance between the ends of the aluminum hoop creating the dome support and shape of the tent.
B) Pull them in to vertical (adds 1 “)
3) Take a look at how much tent is hitting the ground all round.
C) Put extension blocks of 2” high minimum (adds 2 “)

See the pictures: I have added 5 “ to the inside height with the inner tent installed with no apparent problems.

An easy 39” within the inner tent and 41” within the fly only.

Johnny can finally stop whining

Attempted up loading images. way out of scale. working on it

[John Haley]

Hey, John. Where there's a will there's a way! Glad to see you finally have a happy height. If I decide to go for more headroom, I'll consider it. Until then, you can spot me as the slightly hunched over hiker.

[D G]

"1) Take a look at the straps that connect the inner to the outer tent. Some are as much as 4 inches in length.
A) Cut them down to 1 inch. (adds almost 2”)"

Hi John,
When you do the above modification, how does the inner tent hang? ie, the inner tent is suspended, and with the stock setup the floor is at ground level. So if you raise it, is the floor still level with the ground, or is the bathtub floor lifted somewhat?

Thanks!

[Author]

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