Question for Franco the Rainbow Warrior

Henry is the Rainbow Warrior, I'm the Rainbow worrier.

You are quite right about the fiddle factor, but this will give Henry the opportunity to have another improvement with the next version.

I find that the easiest way is to start from the top , just pull the fabric across with you hand on the outside positioned just under the Velcro strip , keep doing that so that on the last strip you will have your hand grubbing the corner of the beak with your knuckles pointing to the ground.

I have to put the Rainbow up tomorrow so I might take a picture of the procedure. I am at work at the moment and trying to visualise how I do it. In reality it could be different.

Franco

I close up my vestibule from the inside just as Franco described — aligning the velcro pieces from the top down. This is definitely a two-hands approach — isn't it thoughtful of Henry to leave gaps between each of the three velcros? :)

One other thing to add: make sure that the front (or vestibule) guy line is set "just so" — meaning not too loose and not too tight. Too loose will result in vestibule flapping of course, but over-tightening the guy line will pull on the vestibule flaps too much — making it difficult to close up from the inside.

Henry and Ron seem to "inspire" each other — who knows, maybe Henry will switch to zipper closure next time around as well???

My own experience is that it's easier to not stake out the vestibule first. Match the flaps be reaching from underneath as is described in the previous posts. Then stake it out by reaching out from under the vestibule. Hope that helps. I'd agree that this is definitely an area where the Rainbow II could be improved.
Gerry Magnes

I have a DR, and can sympathize with the closing of the vestibule from the inside. I basically do what Franco described if I understand his description correctly. One thing I do a little differently is I'll sometimes connect the lowest velcro strip just to take pressure off so I can then start from the top down finishing off with the reconnection of the lower strip. This worked pretty well in my Squall (closure is at a different location) in the rain when I wanted to get it shut quick.

Glenn,

I saw your tent review, and it looks like you have all of the tents of which I'm trying to choose — Rainbow, Hubba, and SL1 (I'm also considering Marmot's EOS 1). What are your thoughts on how these compare? I would prefer to go as lightweight as possible, but I spend the majority of my time above 10,000ft in the Sierra Nevada, so I have to get something that can withstand that harsh environment. Thanks!

Here's a very quick comparison. Keep in mind that I have no field experience with either the SL1 or the Rainbow, just a handful of setups in the back yard so far. I do have considerable experience with the Hubba – but none of it at elevation: all of my hiking is in the Midwest, and 500' is "high" around here. So what follows may not be applicable to your 10K elevations.

The Hubba is a wonderful tent that almost pitches itself. It's versatile, allowing a fly-only, mesh-only, or "traditional" fly and mesh pitch. This gives me a lunchtime shelter, a non-stuffy shelter in buggy August weather (80 degrees/90 percent humidity), and a pretty much bombproof shelter the rest of the time. The long-side entry makes it an incredibly convenient tent to use; the high point of the tent is right where you climb in. It's stable. However, at 3.5 pounds, it's also heavy; also, the floor space is limited because the tent is very narrow – the length is fine, though. (Narrow cuts both ways: it cuts down living space, but it also lets me pitch it in some really tight spots where the SL1 and Rainbow wouldn't fit.)

The SL1 seems pretty roomy at first blush – the trapezoidal shape gives you good shoulder room, and space to store gear, plus the pitching versatility of the Hubba. However, I find the end entry a bit awkward (but remember, I'm comparing it to the Hubba), and I find I can't get into it without brushing my head and shoulders against the mesh. The high point of the tent is a foot or so beyond the door, so the door is low-clearance. But, it's lighter than the Hubba by half a pound. It's not really freestanding, but can do in a pinch (you lose a lot of living space unless you stake out the foot. It does get a "what were they thinking" design award: the door area uses clips to attach the body to the fly (just like my beloved Hubba.) However, you have to thread the rest of the pole through fabric loops – not nearly as fiddly as a pole sleeve, but aggravating in its own right when you thread it through 3, then discover you missed the first one and have to start over. (This is not something you want to expose the tender ears of small children to.) Overall, this tent reminds me a lot of the Zoid 1 I used to use (except the Zoid had a side entry.) Although the fiddle factor is a little higher than the Hubba, this may turn into a viable replacement tent for my Hubba, letting me save a little weight without radically modifying my overall approach to gear. I have to admit that I got a little bit of the warm fuzzies when I stretched out in it.

The TarpTent Rainbow is a truly innovative design, and I see tremendous potential in it for saving weight (especially since I'll rethink the rest of my gear; the total approach will add another 2 pounds to the pound and a half the tent saves, reducing my total load by about 25% – nothing to sneeze at.) However, I didn't get an instant case of the warm fuzzies with this tent. It has a higher fiddle factor than the other two. There's the poles sleeve to contend with (the Hubba's clip system spoiled me.) You end up doing more staking and tightening/restaking with this one to get a taut pitch. You have to seam-seal it (a one-time fiddle, but annoying – again the seam-taped Hubba and the SL1 have me spoiled.) As noted above, there's a high fiddle factor with the vestibule. The threshold at the door is needlessly high (about twice the height of the other two.) The freestanding pitch is, at best, flimsy (again, the Hubba excels; this isn't a big deal, since I bought the Rainbow fully intending to stake it – I tend to use at most one hiking pole.) The ability to clip and unclip the floor seems overrated – I didn't see any difference in the ventilation either way (admittedly, I may not have learned to get the optimal pitch yet – another fiddle in itself.)

The Rainbow really isn't a single-pole tent; calling it a "strut" doesn't change the fact that it's a pole across the top of the tent. This strut causes me a minor issue in that it forces me to change the way I pack. The strut is best left in the tent (it will come out, but removing it and replacing it is a recurring fiddle in itself.) This forces you to roll the tent around the strut, and the strut is long enough that you are forced to put the tent vertically into the tent. (My Hubba, in two stuff sacks to separate a potentially wet fly from a relatively dry body – oh, wait, can't do that with the Rainbow, either – let me pack the tent itself horizontally, and the poles vertically in a corner.) I've figured out how to repack accordingly, but getting the side-to-side balance just right is now a little more fiddly.

I've read that others find the floor slippery when you use it with a self-inflating pad (there are various solutions to this hassle), but I had no trouble at all with my closed-cell Z-Rest staying put – and I purposely pitched the tent on an incline to test that.

Having said that, there is an incredibly luxurious amount of room – both floor space and headroom – in this tent. Also, in the brief nap I took in the backyard, I didn't get any feeling of stuffiness or any condensation while in it – and I did close the vestibule. The weight savings cannot be ignored. While it wasn't love at first sight, I'm sufficiently impressed by the advantages of this tent to see if I can live with the larger fiddle factor. I'm anxious to take it out on the trail and see.

Why is fiddle factor so important to me? I enjoy my trips most when the maintenance activities fade into the background and become semi-conscious actions. The Hubba tent, and other slightly heavier gear I've been using, did exactly that. My own personal criteria, not based on the objective merits of the SL1 and Rainbow, will make my determining factor how far into the foreground their fiddle factors bring them.

To Franco and the rest of you: thanks for the info about the vestibule. I guess it's encouraging that I was doing it "right" – though it raises some concerns about hiking in the rain, then pitching the tent on soggy ground, then ending up on my hands, elbows, and knees in the muddy ground under the vestibule trying to close it. (Right up there with some doubts about that high vent/tie-out area.) However, I'm not going to obsess about it; I want to get some experience with it.

Glenn:

Oftentimes, the actual doing is much quicker and simpler than reading the instructions step by step. The vestibule is not that hard to operate, and no, you WON'T have to be on your elbows and knees. Best thing is to set up the tent a few times and just play around/practice with it. You'll get the hang of it in no time at all. Have fun.

Glen
I found your comments about storing the Hubba and the Rainbow very interesting.
Pity that we are not in the same area because I would like the opportunity to see who could dismantle the tents quicker, me by taking down the Rainbow, pulling the strut out and stuffing into the backpack, or you with the Hubba, removing the two layers , stuffing/folding them and dismantling the poles. The same would apply for setting it up including putting the strut back.
Just for fun I removed the strut from the Rainbow and repacked it.
Starting with the tent inside the carry bag done up, I set it up twice, the first time in 2:49 and the second in 2:42. ( six stakes in place and a taut set up) It took me 2:02 to take it down , remove the strut and having it all inside the stuff sac. Try that with the Hubba.
BTW, I am 52 so I expect some younger ones to do better than that.

Lunch time shelter.
Again , considering the fast set up and the huge all mesh side, you may find that the Rainbow will do a similar job as the Hubba, except that you could have someone else inside it.
The floor can be unclipped to give more room, for example if you want to sleep with someone else inside, it has really nothing to do with ventilation.
As far as the staking goes, I urge you to set the Rainbow up a few more times and you will soon work out where to put the pegs “instinctively” , basically you should start with the guylines about two thirds out ( so that you can re-tighten them when it gets colder or starts raining) and the pegs should be at a 45 degree angle following the seam line, not way out at a 90 degree angle as you often see.
Talking about speed, the Formula One Grand Prix cars are doing some laps right now, about 1 km from my place. I can almost feel the vibrations.
Franco
Apologies to all about my explanation on how to close the vestibule. What I was describing applies to the Contrail, ( my shelter for the last few outings) not the Rainbow.
With the Rainbow the right side of the vestibule (looking from the inside) should be in place, staked down. Then is just matter of matching the left side to it, starting from the top. I have just done that from the inside of the tent, kneeling on the floor, you can easily reach the bottom without leaving the floor. If you cannot match the Velcro strip without a lot of pulling and fiddling, it is because the beak is not staked out correctly.
I’ll post a picture later today.

Roos over the Rainbow (my last trip)

Thanks Franco – looks like I was doing it right.

I took the Rainbow on a quick overnight this weekend and discovered two things: 1) It truly is a great tent, and 2) I'm not going to replace my Hubba with it.

Sounds contradictory and illogical, I know. But the whole time I was out (I was also testing a lot of other ultralight replacements for gear I like), I kept finding myself reacting, "I really wish I had my (old piece of gear.)" The strongest such visceral reaction was to the Rainbow.

Objectively, the Rainbow is a great tent. Well-designed, roomy, light, and stable (if staked; I found the freestanding option a bit flimsy – but I stake my Hubba, too.) It performed just like everyone said it would, and I closed the vestibule, just to see. No condensation, good ventilation, closed-cell pad stayed put, closing the vestibule didn't send me onto my elbows and wrists. I still don't like the pole sleeve, and find it annoying to remove and replace the strut (you may very well win the race, but it's not about speed, it's about fiddle factor – too which I am admittedly overly-sensitive.) It stayed taut (with one initial restaking), though I did notice that the pegs I inserted pointing toward the tent got gradually pulled into a vertical position when I achieved a taut pitch (they were at a 45 degree angle to the corners – I always stake tents out that way.) That's in a clay soil that was moist.

But I never got a glimmer of the warm fuzzies. For whatever reason, I just like the Hubba better and am willing to pay the pound and a half it costs to use it. It's a purely subjective decision; similar to my preference for Granite Gear packs, and aversion to Gregory packs. The tent itself is objectively good, and I'd heartily recommend it to anyone – except me. I really wanted to like it, but just couldn't do it.

Thanks again for all the encouragement and help as I traveled this path; I'm really sorry to let all of you Tarptent users down – I'll understand if I'm now banned from the site!

>>I'm really sorry to let all of you Tarptent users down – I'll understand if I'm now banned from the site!

Not to worry, Glenn. The BPL forums are a pretty big tent. You just won't be allowed to enter one of the inner circles of Lightitude.:-) Unh-oh, is that a double wall tent sitting behind me in my avatar?

Hi Glenn:

I absolutely love the space/weight ratio of the Rainbow. It's the tent I reach for when tackling long / difficult hikes — like my summer hike up Mt. Whitney — where the Rainbow excelled in low humidity and moderate temps.

But on shorter/easier hikes where I can afford to indulge myself, then I bring along my beloved Big Agnes Seedhouse 2 SL and the Rainbow stays home. Perhaps the drum-tight, double wall Seedhouse provided me an added feel of coziness and security — who knows — but emotions certainly count too! Obviously, such feelings are personal, and I am sure the factors that make the Seedhouse such an attractive tent to me might be repelling to those who'd rather sleep directly under the stars…

This is why so many of us own multiple tents — and also why the question often asked by newbies — "Which tent is the best?" — is essentially impossible to answer.

nm

David:

I think you need to come down to southern Cal and demo your Akto. Lots of good hikes here, you know! :)

For solo treks, I take my tarptent Contrail.

For treks with the wife, we take our tarptent Double Rainbow.

Note we only do 3 season treks. For winter, I'll still use my 20 year old, highly reliable North Face Tadpole.

David and Ben
Your back and forth has made for a good read this week end; thanks for that.
I thought I’d chime in with a quick blurb about the Akto, since it’s been part of the dialogue.
We had a Nor’easter pass through Long Island on Friday so I decided to hike out to a piece of hill side overlooking the LI sound just before it hit.
I set up on top of a few inches of accumulated snow freeze and hunkered down.
After all was said and done, the storm hit with some 4-5 inches of freezing rain at 40 to 60 mph winds and temps. around 20 deg. The morning left me encapsulated in ice.
The Akto performed better than I expected, stayed put; high and dry although huge condesation inside against the rip stop nylon.
With that, I can’t say I have the love for it that you express Ben. Although it surely is bomb proof it’s also just a step higher than a bivy as size goes. It seems my pack was more comfortable in the vestibule than I in the main section. Life laying down on one elbow just doesn’t make it for me.

Glenn

Sorry it did not work out for you but I do know what you mean about that "fuzzy feeling", for example I feel like you do about the Hubba when I use the ULA packs, but when I need to carry extra weight (water) I use the Aarns.

I think that the colour ( or is that a radiation ?) of the MSR has somewhat distorted your way of thinking, but you have just proven my point about trying something out rather then just looking at the specs. I recommend that to my customers when they are looking at a new camera, "don't just focus on megapixels, take a few shots with it !"

That sleeve, once you get used to it is very quick to use. (the first time I set the Rainbow up, I could not find the opening)

The trick is to point the pole down so that it slides inside the sleeve smoothly.

Summer is approaching over there, maybe you should try it again later on.

I am surprised that no one as suggested a hammock to you, maybe you need to go to White Blaze for that.

Franco

Franco
I couldn't agree with you more. The best tent is not here, yet. If the Akto hada foot higher and wider might come close for me but then again I've only owned a few tents and have not had much to compare with, my opinions are with limited experience.

The best tent is not here, yet

Three ponts of view on that thought:

1. The best tent is always here … the best of current choices.
2. The best tent is never here … a better one is out there waiting to be conceived.
3. The best tent will never be here … best for whose purposes?
4. The idea of the best tent is nonsense … best by whose criteria?

OOPS, that's four, sorry.

For my hike, the best tent is any tent that's adequate to get me out on the hike!

"nonsense"
That's a tad harsh isn't it?

That having been said, I wouldn't have attempted a nor'easter without the need to try out my new gear (tent)….so it probably is what got me out there.

John

nm

So basically, the Akto is a coffin. Yeah, the dead "turn in their graves" too — when their elbows get sore. :)

Thanks John for your personal experience with the Akto. Most owners talk about it as if it was the Holy Grail, a bit like I rave on about the Rainbow in effect.

I like some features of the Akto, but I have only experienced the Exped Vela, similar but not the same.

As you have experienced, double skin tents ALSO get condensation, most seem to pretend that it only happens with single skin.

This is where body size and personal preferences become important. I prefer a largish vestibule at the expense of floor size, Ben clearly thinks that floor size is more important. There is no right or wrong, that is why getting different opinions matters.

That is why the perfect tent will never be made .

Maybe one closer to my version of perfection will be out next year.

Franco

Yes, guilty as charged. I am a space hog.

Hey Franco — what do you think about the Unna? Supposedly — but don't really know for sure — Hilleberg may introduce a "Unna with vestibule" tent next year.