Where are the lightweight backpackers? Not on the JMT…

Great stuff, Manfred.

I need to look at Tenkara more, as our light spinning rods surely weigh more than that, and use of smaller boil containers — for sure. So far, it's been cost that's held me back from that (our Shakespeare collapsable completes are $20 at Big 5).

David,

Oh, he was b*tching about it. His crew started the day before and we caught them about 1/2 way through our first day. He could only muster about 10 miles per day and it was agony for him. He was carrying a months worth of fuel, two stoves, etc. in a giant red Osprey pack. It was hotter than normal so that certainly didn't help him. Felt bad for those guys.

Ryan

1)I guess that I am interested in what other people would recommend IF they could only afford one set of gear
If you want one item only of each type of gear , well you need to buy the largest pack that can hold the full weight of your winter kit and enough food for the longest walk as well as the tent that will cope with the strongest winds and highest snow fall and then a sleeping bag that is warm enough for the lowest temps and so on.
In the end you will have a kit that will work well only in mid winter on a long trip.
not so much if you want to take do an overnighter with 80 f as the minimum temp.
The same goes for any sport/activity.
If you want to cycle downhill , a track bike isn't any good , however a non specialised bike will be too heavy on track and road but not strong enough on a mountain trail.
Same for sailing, skiing and pretty much anything you want to do more than just once or twice.
BTW, I do not know of any gear that works 100% of the time regardless of weight or cost.
Franco

Franco,

Great point about what it would look like if you ONLY had one kit to buy to cover all your backpacking needs.

It would be heavy.

I have come to look at UL/Lightweight backpacking as being minimalistic and having highly specialized gear tailored to the exact conditions you expect to confront with little margin of error if you predict wrong.

Where traditional backpacking dogma might say that you should have a 20 degree sleeping back to cover the chance of someone encountering freezing temperatures, the lightweight backpacker might have 3 different sleeping bags to allow them to carry the one that best suits the temperatures expected.

Hyperspecialization in gear can definitely cost more…..having multiple sleeping bags and backpacks.

That said, going with less gear is a great way to go lighter and save money.

-Tony

I keep seeing people comment about if they could only have a single set of gear buying the largest pack that will accommodate all their winter gear and I must admit to being surprised about that. In the winter, my pack gets smaller and lighter because I tow a pulk behind me instead, and my shelter is made of snow so instead of a tent or tarp I carry a shovel. It's a lot easier to snowshoe or ski pulling your load than carrying it on your back. Do you all not get sufficient snow to do that down there?

Dena (from ALASKA)

Last week we had 30 to 60 cm of snow falling on the Alps here. (Victoria,Australia)
There was much rejoicing and cheer spread around the nation except up North were they think snow is just a myth.
Does that help you ?

Very few here use a pulk because most of the time snow is only high up (above 1500m or so) and that means steep ground .
Building a snow cave with somewhat wet snow is not all that easy but can be done at times. Just a bit too time consuming for most.
Anyway, this is a small one a mate built on the trip I missed…

Still I have no intention of using a DM 7 in summer, nor a canister stove that can melt snow, nor my snow boots , my heavy eVent jacket….

here is my walking mate "there"

Note 25L frameless pack

and same guy "here"

now with a 75 liter well framed pack…
Franco

Ultralight is about the approach, as much as the gear. It is truly a mindset that is quite difficult to embrace for most people. Its just different from how we normally live our lives.

It takes some measure of confidence based on experience, to know that just the few simple objects you take, are enough to keep you safe, warm, dry, and healthy. Once embraced, you discover that less IS more, and that simplicity is elegant , natural, and superior.

I am not a UL hiker. I never have been. I am merely an L hiker, at least by the sounds of this thread. But that's OK, coz this is Backpacking Light, not Backpacking Ultra Light. I find my loads very comfortable to carry, and they don't really slow me down, so as long as I am happy, who else should care? I often hike with 'trad' friends, who are quite happy to carry their heavier loads. I don't knock them and they don't knock me.

I tried UL. It didn't work for me. Too many gear failures in critical situations for my liking (and safety). But the weather where I hike IS totally unpredictable, the terrain often trackless and unforgiving, unbridged rivers frequently flood, and you can easily go days without seeing another soul to bail you out of a sticky situation. So I no doubt carry more than would be needed on a summer trip in the Sierras (though no bear canister). However, given the potentially harsh and unpredictable conditions, my pack is still lighter than the vast majority of hikers in the same area, facing the same conditions. So maybe we should call this "Backpacking Lighter" rather than Backpacking Light, to reflect the goal that I think we can all agree on, which is to sensibly and safely lighten our loads.

My experience working in retail some years ago (REI and 2 small shops) was that most people would come in wanting a bag that was warmer than they needed (just in case) and a tent that was 1)roomy and 2)easy to set up and 3)storm worthy. They wanted a stove that was easy to use and would simmer nicely, boots that were comfortable and would last a long time, and a pack that had plenty of room (just in case). For clothing, they wanted to be plenty warm and didn't mind taking another layer (just in case). Gadgets, accessories and doodads sold like hotcakes.
You will notice that they did not often mention weight. Usually, I had to bring that up.

I don't know if today's backpacker has a different attitude than what I encountered in my selling days, but what I see on the trail suggests not much different. I do see some lighter gear, but mostly I still see the full complement of stuff. The multiple cooking pots, the "extra" clothes, the plate & bowl to eat out of, etc. I wonder if a lot of people are thinking that the first step to a lighter pack is lighter versions of all the stuff they have always taken, rather than starting by eliminating redundant and unneeded items. You don't get down to the UL range by taking a lighter 3-pot cookset and lighter extra clothing.

Which ties into the money thing. If you start by taking stuff out of your pack, you don't spend a dime. And if you start out with a lightweight set of gear, it doesn't need to cost more. Sure, if you want to gt your baseweight down really low, you have to get into some pretty specialized stuff that cost more. But a 15 lb baseweight can be reached with nothing fancy, just keeping it simple.

As for the "one set of gear for all trips, that doesn't have to be a big load either. Start with a 15 degree sleeping bag. Get a 3-season tent, fairly robust, and just take the fly in the summer, and set up in sheltered spots in the winter. A little ingenuity will make your gear handle a pretty wide range. But I don't think that wanting to cover all the conditions they might go out in is why most backpackers have gear heavier than they need – most of the folks who only get out occasionally are not planning any winter trips. Much more likely, in my opinion, that they are just playing it safe. They'd like to have a larger margin for error than some of us are comfortable with. Which is not a bad thing if your experience is limited. If one person has lots and lots of experience in the mountains in all seasons, and another has very little, the person with little experience should have gear that gives them a bigger margin for error than the guy who's seen it all.

The other thing to consider is that,broadly speaking, there are two kinds of backpackers – I think of the two types as "campers" and "hikers". The campers are more concerned with comfort in camp – they'll go a few miles to a nice spot, set up camp and stay there, enjoying that place. The hikers are more interested in the walking than the camping, and are more likely to be happy with minimal camp comforts so as to enjoy more miles on the trail. fo course it's not as simple as this, and there are folks all over the spectrum, but the "campers" are a lot less likely to be concerned about pack weight, since they have no interest in going further or faster most of the time anyway. And then the campers get that once-in-a-lifetime urge to do a longer trip, and they do it with all their creature comforts along, and that's one reason you see some really big loads on the JMT.

"I don't know if today's backpacker has a different attitude than what I encountered in my selling days…"

On the average, maybe not too much different. On the other hand, when I need a piece of new gear and I shop online, if the online store does not list the weight of the item, I just move on to another store. Simple as that.

About ten days ago when I was northbound along the JMT, I noticed a lot of southbound JMT hikers carrying some big packs. I saw big packs with tall boots, and I saw big packs with minimalist shoes. Then I saw one guy with a small/lightweight pack walking by himself. He asked how far it was to Forester Pass, so I told him. By the time I was asking how much his pack weighed, he was gone.

–B.G.–

Well, lets' see, my first ever trip carrying a pack was a winter trip into mono lake. My parents bought me a lot of new gear for this trip, with the assumption that it would be money well spent because I could use it any time of year if I decided I liked hiking and wanted to do more. So I was pretty much stuck with that heavy base weight for a LONG time, and couldn't afford or justify buying lighter gear for summer trips. The up side of it all was that I became VERY fit when it came to hiking. I don't see anything wrong with that…I still enjoyed hiking. But that was in the 70s. There really really wasn't any light gear available at the time anyway, even for summer trips. There weren't any internal frame packs, there weren't any light stoves, pots were all stainless steel, sleeping bags were made to last forever, and the common wisdom was that down was too risky for a sleeping bag or jacket, so everything was synthetic. Just as well, coz down fill was doing well to hit 550 fill. There was no Goretex, silnylon, Caldera cones, aircraft grade aluminum tent poles, or any of the other options most consumers now have at no great increase in $$$ (except maybe good quality down, which still costs a lot). The idea of multiple use items was unheard of. A lot of my stuff was army surplus…yikes.

So we have it pretty good these days. Aside from food, fuel and water, there is no good reason someone getting kitted out now with new gear to have to carry a heavy pack, or spend a fortune, except the historic reasons that seem hard for some to overcome.

Interesting comment on "hikers" vs. "campers". I find that I do different trips depending on my mood, what time I have available, and who I'm with. In all cases though I'm cognizant that having a comfort in camp means hours of discomfort on the trail, and that often helps me eliminate some items — although with a Neoair pad, I find myself sleeping quite comfortably.

It's also a nice thought that I'm not just taking my daughter hiking; I'm building a future backcountry constituency. :)

HJ

I am at about a 8lb baseweight give or take a pound and a half depending on weather and I feel very safe.

I feel like I sacrifice nothing to get to this point, in fact I have been enjoying my excessive hiking and gear more than ever. When I stop to set up camp my back isnt hurting, blisters are not too bad, and I am full of energy.

Gone are the days when I had a 45lb pack and I only weighed 130lbs. Everything I own I feel is going to last a long time and is versitille, meaning I can leave my canister stove at home and cook over the fire. I can leave the tent body at home in my double walled tent.

I can go even lighter!

Take a look at my gearlist, everything I have serves a purpose, its about being smart and driving a little Civic; rather than a gas guzzling V10 Ford truck.

"How many of us (honestly, now) began backpacking with all the traditional amenities? Think of what it took to convince you to change. "

On my very first "backpacking" trip, my pack probably weighed overall less than 20lbs. I was using a 35 liter osprey pack with a cheap nylon tarp and a mil surp patrol bag. I feel very, very fortunate to not have been sucked into the swirling vortex that is mainstream backpacking gear.
To be honest, I was spending a ton of time on bushcraftusa.com and it got me in the mindset to go minimal. The knowledge of bushcraft skills has been tremendously useful in all of my backpacking adventures. Ironically, most of the people on that site carry more heavier loads than your average backpacker but with less comfort. But they sure do love their wool blankets and canvas tarps… can't blame them.

Thank you all for your thoughts. I felt like I was sitting around a campfire and discussing the evolution of backpacking over the last 15 years. I will post a trip report in the respective section. The last memorable trip experience was running across a couple that was doing the Rae Lakes loop clockwise, and was at Mist Falls 5 miles deep. They said they were too tired to push on and they wanted to do the loop in 7 days. It was very sad to think that they were not going to make it and have to turn back. They had at least 50lb packs that were massive. I thought "they have 41 miles to go, and about 12,000 elevation gain/loss and they were struggling, they are not going to make it". The Rae Lakes loop is a formidable hike and if you go light you have a better chance.

Because I'm fat and saving 16 grams doesn't make a noticeable difference.

After I shed those extra 21 pounds off my own frame then I'll start worrying about the extra 21 grams in my pack again.

At 30 years old I was the weight weenie trying to shed another gram off the components of my road bike for a half ironman. Now I'm the guy you pass on the top of the mountain that hiked up a charcoal grill and a six pack of Rogue Dead Guy (on ice). lol cheers

Then I saw one guy with a small/lightweight pack walking by himself. He asked how far it was to Forester Pass, so I told him. By the time I was asking how much his pack weighed, he was gone
Yes some of these UL guys can be very rude.

The above was meant to be taken as a double entendre (no capish in English…) type joke as in
Mike : If i get on my horse it takes me all day to cross my farm
Jim : yes, I had a horse like that…

"Yes some of these UL guys can be very rude."

No, he was just a man on a mission, and I understood that when I saw his small pack size and his trail speed. He was southbound on the last four miles before Forester Pass, and he wanted to get to the highest/last possible campsite before sunset. He had only two days before he finished the JMT, and he didn't want to get distracted by questions from the bystanders. Once he found out (from me) what he needed to know, he was gone. No biggie. I mean, it wasn't like he was an Aussie or something.

–B.G.–

you can still be fairly light with a reasonable mainstream pack, 20F sleeping bag, real tent, etc … its all mindset … some people bring their fears with them, others dont

conversely you can be decently light without spending much money

the point about having a single set of gear and being a tad heavier is quite relevant, but isnt the reason why some people carry the kitchen sink IMO …

its all about knowledge, experience, and fear … and habits as well

this does pose an interesting question … who is getting it better, a person who spends their money on 5 different packs, 4 down puffies, 3 different bags, 2 different pads and a partridge in a pear tree for all seasons who can claim to be UL/XUL at any given time … or a person who is simply light with a single set of gear and spends their money having fun …

"a partridge in a pear tree"

Eric, I believe that the bird would classify as a consumable item.

–B.G.–

The pears would also be a consumable item. They'd need to be dehydrated, of course. The tree, though, might be a different story!

The tree is multi-use of course… fruit as food and the wood could be used as fuel or arranged into a shelter

I hiked the JMT this year and got back last week.
I randomly met up and hiked the last 3 days with a guy that had a Zpacks Hexamid Twin, Enlightened Equipment sleeping bag, etc.
I was using the Gorilla 2012 and saw another guy with the Gorilla 2012 around Heart Lake. I played leap frog with a guy that had a cuben Zpacks bag, shelter, etc. for a few days. I saw few Mariposas, old Gorillas, lots of Osprey Exos. I passed by a few cuben shelters, tarptents. One guy was even hiking the trail with an Ursack, despite it not being allowed.
I'd say around 20% of the hikers I saw/met had some lightweight gear.

I just finished the JMT, same day as Manfred. My boys and I hiked with him and his family for a bit near Crabtree Meadow and both finished the next day (although we got up early and didn't see him the final day). I saw all ranges of weight, from a guy with a 70 lbs pack trying to do the trail in 12 days (he took some advice and sent home about 30 lbs from Tuolomne) to people thru-hiking with 30L packs and less than 10 lbs base weight including bear canister. I saw at least 3 Hexamids, more of Shire's Tarptents than I can recall, a lot of Gossamer Gear packs, two Z Packs backpacks (including Manfred's). So I saw a lot of Ultralight folks, but many people I talked to seemed to be carrying between 30 and 40 lbs. Most people seemed to be at least aware of ultralight trends, even if they didn't fully dive into them.

My pack (a Gossamer Gear G4) at its heaviest weighed just over 30 lbs upon leaving Muir Trail Ranch, more than I had initially planned for because I was carrying some stuff (i.e. food) for my 11 and 14 yr old boys to keep their packs as light as possible going into the major passes. My 11 yr old's Osprey looked like the heaviest pack of our group, as it was packed full with soft goods like his clothes, his quilt, etc., and had a few things strapped to the outside including their tent. But he didn't carry any food (except for some daytime snacks, energy bars, etc) nor a bear canister and his pack rarely exceeded a total weight of 14 lbs (only if he needed to carry more than a liter of water), if the scales at Yosemite Valley and MTR are accurate. So looks can be deceiving when it comes to pack weight.

Cool pics, Tom (Dowser?). Thanks for sharing 'em. I can't wait until my daughter is old enough to hike with me on a Sierra backpack.

I've see it all on the trail, from packs that stood up a foot and a half above the head of the wearer to guys carrying barely more than a day pack. The all time classic was the guy I met on the JMT near Palisade Creek who had a cast iron frying pan secured to the outside of his pack. Yipes!

HJ