Tunnel Tents Tutorial and State of the Market Report – Part 1: Definition and Pitching

""America does get a lot of dry stable weather in some areas. That means there is a good demand for cheap mass-market tents for fine weather."

Roger wrote "in some areas", not everywhere. I think he is right. A lot of California, unless you get into the mountains,along the northern coast or some deserts, has weather that is quite stable. California is a market for cheap tents. Not here on BPL, but I see plenty of them and I see nothing wrong with buying and using them for the most typical kind of camping that is done here.
The above comment seems pretty straightforward and true enough to me.

Hi Lawson, WV, Ken and all

> where is all this dry stable weather? In the Southwest …?
Well, lots of trip reports talk about the endless fine weather. Maybe I am just jealous? That said, I have also seen muttered comments about the north (Appalachians etc) where it is wetter.

> demand for cheap mass market tents has nothing to do with weather patterns and
> everything to do with our Walmart Society.
You said it, not me. :-) (I have to agree though.)

> I look for unbiased (or at least as much as possible) articles on BPL and lately some
> have been lacking in that department.
Yeah, but 100% sterile articles with no biases gets boring – no? And I did warn, right at the start, that I would express some personal opinions in this article.

I wonder what the difference is between bias and experience?

Cheers

Maybe I should just read the reviews, I guess.

Hi Robert

It is worth looking at the example you have quoted (Rupal Face of Nanga Parbat) a bit more carefully.

First of all, with a tent on a little ledge on a big face you may not get such extreme winds. The air speed at the surface of the rock is zero, and all the lumps and bumps decorating the face will slow the wind down a fair bit within a metre or so of the rock surface. This is very different from an open snow field or a high saddle.

Second, it is hard enough getting enough space to lie down on some of those big faces: finding enough room for a decent tunnel tent might be a bit out of the question. You would not try to use one of the large heavy 3-4 man geodesics you find on the South Col on a big face either. You pick the appropriate shelter for the conditions.

Third, comparing what two extreme alpinists doing a face route on Nanga Parbat will accept from a bivouac shelter for the night with what a walker might want from a tent for a week-long holiday walk with his wife(/partner) in the mountains seems a bit of a stretch to me.

Cheers

Brilliant! Bring on the opinions and facts – it's great to get expert advice from someone who's used them all. Thanks for a wonderful article mate. As always, I enjoyed it immensely and will be looking for a tunnel tent in the near future. You talked me in to it with some great arguments. Well done!

Roger, we do get plenty of bad weather in the US! Try visiting Wyoming's Wind River Range sometime. You're mostly above timberline, often with daily thunderstorms, high winds, occasional snow. If you're lucky you can shelter behind some krummholz or perhaps a few boulders, but most of the time you are out in the open. Unlike many other places along the Continental Divide, it's often not possible to drop down to timberline to camp, and because of bark beetle infestation you usually have to camp in the open even below timberline. The Wind River (which flows from these mountains) was not so named for its peaceful zephyrs! The Winds are a truly beautiful place, but you have to pay the price!

Because most people in the US have really short vacations, they check the weather forecasts and aren't out for long periods in bad weather. That may be why you see trip reports with good weather.

Even out here in relatively mild western Oregon, we get high winds out of the Columbia River Gorge due to air pressure differences between the east and west ends (it's often high pressure at one end and low pressure at the other). Fortunately, the worst of the winds are in the winter when most of us are not camping. At least one winter since I've lived here, the winds got up to 90 mph (145 kph) and blew down a lot of billboards along the nearby highway!

If something that we can buy comes out of the commercial interest in your own tent, it will be anxiously awaited!

Re clips vs. sleeves–at least one US tent designer (Sierra Designs) went from sleeves to clips for its most popular tent (Flashlight) in the early 1990's because it was so much easier to clip the inner to the poles than to thread the poles through the sleeves. I suspect the popularity of the Clip Flashlight (which I personally hated for other reasons, especially horrendous condensation problems)) spread to a lot of other tents from the big manufacturers and explains the prevalence of the clip design.

Many people here (on BPL) claim that pyramids are the most wind-resistant….

From the Hilleberg catalog. FWIW

TUNNEL OR DOME TENT? Some users simply prefer one type over another, but each has its advantage. Our tunnel tents offer lighter weight and more usable space. Our dome tents provide better static load stability and can be a better choice in tough pitching conditions, but at the price of greater weight.

Hi Mary

Yes, I KNOW you can get bad weather in America. But the impression I have got from trip reports and stock lists at the retailers is that most people restrict themselves to fine weather. A frequent comment seen in late Autumn seems to be that walking is now over until late Spring. I can understand that. Obviously, there will be many here at BPL who do not fit that mould.

> much easier to clip the inner to the poles than to thread the poles through the sleeves.
That could be the explanation. Condensation – yeah, with that design.

> the winds got up to 90 mph (145 kph)
Several times we have experienced winds over 150 kph in the mountains. We have been reduced to crawling across the exposed gaps and saddles. Carrying skis under those conditions is … tricky.

Cheers

Anyone familiar with Roger should have expected to get some opinion … comes with the territory.

Oz extending roughly 4000 miles (6400km) by 3000 miles (4800km) I rather doubt that there is such a single thing as "Australian weather" just as there is no such single thing as "American weather" … just a wide range of extremes in both places.

Perhaps Roger is having a bit of fun "pulling the yank's chains" … if so, mission accomplished!

But let's strip this article to it's core:

* very strong winds and/or heavy snow loads present challenges that many tent designs handle poorly or not at all
* well designed tunnel tents can handle those conditions well
* not emphasized in the text but obvious from pictures of Roger's winter tent is he feels that a LOT of guy lines are part of being well designed. I think I'm seeing 20 or more on his winter tent.
* well designed geodesic dome tents can rival tunnel tents in this regard … but with a weight penalty (this IS BPL, after all)
* being able to be setup in a blizzard with 60MPH winds is a highly desirable attribute if you get caught out in changing weather or if your outdoor activities include goals that do not allow you to go home in bad weather.

I can't argue with those points because I don't have the experience sleeping in those conditions but I have been out in snow storms with 40MPH winds and temps below 0F … was happy to have a heated building to retreat into!

Concerning Vince Anderson and Steve House using a Black Diamond Firstlight on a tenny-weeny ledge on Nanga Parbat's Rupal Face … well, Hermann Buhl "bivied" overnight standing on a tiny ledge without shelter at 7900 meters without oxygen during the 1953 first ascent of Nanga Parbat … I don't think that means Vince and Steve carried an unnecessary shelter to their ledge. Both situations mean that on those days they did not encounter conditions that would defeat their gear (or lack thereof) … does not mean that another day wouldn't have killed them.

Lastly, I'll offer an opinion of my own … if you wish to be able stay out in the conditions Roger describes you would be wise to 1) listen to a several people who have done a lot of that. 2) Accept that much (most?) of what they say is of value, even when they are not in perfect agreement 3) make intelligent choices of techniques/gear that cover the bases 4) NOT make the leap from mere bad weather to "you might well die" weather in one jump 5) probably most important, rely on your field tested ability to use the "right gear" properly as much or more so that the gear itself.

Here's a simple example of what I'm talking about. I am not fond of bic lighters … have a terrible time getting them to light … the wheel and valve lever are just too small for my thumb. SO, I'm a matches guy. But matches have their problems too. NO PROBLEM, I'll use ____ brand storm proof matches! They work great, I don't think they use oxygen … some other exothermic chemical reaction. You strike the match, it glows for a couple seconds and then bursts into flame that seemingly cannot be extinguished … perfect!. Two days later, the temp is about 10F, it's snowing and a little windy. I strike a match, it glows for a few seconds and does NOT burst into flame. I try several .. same thing. I open a fresh box that has been tightly wrapped in cellophane … same thing. Good thing my companion has a lighter! Back home in the driveway two days later the temp is 40F …. every match I strike lights just fine. My theory is that the colder temp keeps the glowing match head from heating up enough to trigger the chemical reaction … just a theory. The point of the example is that I used something that had a proven track record in certain conditions but later failed in different conditions … it happens.

edit: Over here a local guy wrote a book titled "Expedition Canoeing" … chock full of opinions, all the result of decades leading groups "above treeline" (canadian tundra). He's well worth reading but I've never felt that I must do exactly as he says. In fact the book has a long chapter containing "other voices" of people with just as much experience as the author telling how they do things and why their way works for them. There's rarely (never?) just one way but whichever way I choose it is good to be able to say I KNOW that something works for me … until then I prefer to test things closer to home where my learning experiences don't become problems.

Hi Jim

Me stir the pot? Never! Would I do that? :-)

> a LOT of guy lines are part of being well designed. I think I'm seeing 20 or more
> on his winter tent.
You may have a point there. Yes, guy lines are extremely light and extremely important. Their structural value per gram is enormous. Thanks for raising this!

Not quite 20 though, only 12. There are 4 'double' ones on each side rather than 8 singles. These side guys go from the lower attachment point out to the stake, then back to the upper attachment point, in one continuous length. There is only one adjustment, near the upper attachment.

OK, the 'doubles' are not much different from two singles, except that the double version is faster to install. And for really bad weather, having two guys per pole is better than one, for just an extra few grams. Value per gram.

Cheers
PS: I like your summary.

An outsiders view. I have been to the US, but not hiked there. The weather was not only pleasant, it was very stable. The forcast appeared to be reliable, even for several days ahead.

The rest of the world is not like this. In Scotland, tomorrows forcast will be more or less right but anything beyond that is guesswork. The weather can change in hours. Case in point: at the end of March we had record breaking 23C. We thought summer had arrived early. 5 days later we had 6" of snow, not forcast until two days before. A party of Belgian school children were caught out in the Cairngorms and had to be rescued by helicopter. You have to be prepared for any weather at all times of year. I have yet to see anyone use tarp here.

Windspeed records? 142MPH at sea level and 173MPH on a 4000ft hill.

One of the advantages in the United States is that you can do some pretty amazingly long hikes in the late spring to early fall and encounter relatively little weather that would require much more than a tarp.

Particularly in the west, you can experience very fine weather during the summer months that lend itself to relatively worry free hiking experience. That it doesn't require a bombproof tent is reason enough to be thankful, if you ask me.

I don't think the point was to slight the United States, rather illustrate some of the reasons why the United States doesn't produce a large number of shelters designed to withstand the harshest of conditions. Simply, most of the time you won't need it if you hike during shoulder and peak season.

That there are places where the weather on average is less hospitable to hikers than the United States is of little surprise. Not many people on these boards seek out places where the weather is challenging. Like most people, I rather go when I can see something besides whiteout conditions or be stuck in a cloud bank most of the time.

Not everyone has the luxury of time or travel, and must make do with what they have nearby. And from that grows the need for tunnel tents that can withstand a hurricane.

Hi Dirk

Nicely put. Thanks.

Cheers

Thank you. That was a very throughout article. Enjoyed it, will now proceed to read all comments.

The weather here can be bad. It can be excelent. The country is too big to say. These are regional differences. In the High Peaks area of NY we get some vicious weather, similar to what Roger is describing. I believe Mt. Washington has some pretty bad weather, part of the same mountain chain in that region. Alaska is worse. Bermuda is better. Hawai may be the best. These are regional differences. Deserts? Mountains? Plains? Hell, most countries have regions that get bad enough to warrent a tunnel tent. I believe we could easily point to one region or another and support or refute Roger's statements. It depends on where you like to hike, or, perhaps where you hike most often.

That is really not the point, after all. Roger obviosly knows that. He is poking fun at the *yanks* for the 99% of the casual car campers out there that cannot even set up a *free standing* dome. The vast majority of our population lives in cities and suburbs, after all. It WAS advertised as "free standing," wasn't it? Of the 320million people, only about 4500 or so are interested enough in "real back woods camping" to bother to even join BPL, even though we have one of the highest amounts of open land available in the world to do so. His pictures were from some music festival…not a camp ground. And not of hikers that *have* to camp just to sleep. They were of mostly disposable single use dome tents, well suited to the disposable nature of the crowd.

Different populations promote different needs. As Dirk said "I don't think the point was to slight the United States, rather illustrate some of the reasons why the United States doesn't produce a large number of shelters designed to withstand the harshest of conditions." Well put.

Roger didn't invent tunnel tents. He has is his opinion. He does not mention the extreme snow loads that 4' of snow can add to a tent overnight, even in the heavily forested ADK's. They simply shed ice and snow better, building up an insulating barrier around the tents without drastically reducing interior space. I know they are not as strong as some geodesic designs. They aren't as heavy, either. BPL is about packing for the contions we expect to encounter. And, the compromises we make to meet those conditions.

Under the conditions that Roger describes, I would also choose a tunnel tent. THIS was Rodger's point. He was not slighting anyone. As a writer, you *know* what you are writing and what objections may be raised. Read his preamble. A typically Aussies way of laughing out loud at the stupidity of the lemming like behavior he see's around him. Perhaps nowhere so pronounced as in the USofA where you could sell anything provided "…AND, get the second one FREE!!!" is stated so they knew they would get ripped off ahead of time.

I usually use a tarp for weight savings three out of four seasons. When I bring the wife, I bring a tunnel tent. Lighter for the comfort it provides. I have no preference, really. I have spent 2-3 thousand nights out in all sorts of tents and tarps and seen some fairly harsh conditions. Usually the forest cuts any 70mph winds down to about 30mph, so chosing my location carefully, also means "out of the wind." I have ridden through the edge of a tornado in a tent…70-80mph winds. Trees have come down in my area on several occasions due to severe downdrafts or what we termed as "gustnadoes" when I worked in meteorology…very localized. Dead falls, and widowmakers are a constant hazard. I recognize the signs and avoid these camping spots with all their nice downed wood in the same direction. With my wife, I tend to be very conservative and prefer the tunnel tents, or at least the fly and poles. Anyway, tunnels are a good compromise between weight, performance, and comfort. Even if it is not under gale like conditions that Roger describes … worst case is. I doubt that Roger would expect to encounter these conditions on every trip out. I have to deal with very different conditions than Roger's. Yet, I follow the same logic to the same conclusion.

Prevailing weather is one of the factors when choosing a tent but so is exposition when camping. In Europe, it's too common to camp in very exposed places, consistently, day after day if you're on a long route, well beyond the known weather forecast. It's a matter of population density and the fact that most of western Europe is so urbanized the only wild-ish places are high in the mountains. In North America, camping in protected locations is much more often an option, a good option. I find myself paying more attention to my shelter choice when I hike in Europe. What Mary D described for the Wind River Range is pretty much the default. I actually live and hike in Spain, most of which looks and feels a lot like California but the actual camping is very different. I don't know about Australia in this regard but in Europe is definitely a factor. One of our regular BPL contributors usually reports the same for Japan.

Stuart, I have used a tarp in Scotland! a simple, rectangular 8×10 with beaks, for a week in march/april across Knoydart and north. It's doable but too exposed and wet to be the best option. Next trip in Scotland, I've taken a tunnel tent :)

Great article Roger, gives me lots to think about. As a purely personal matter, I prefer articles whose opinion and bias is overt rather than lurking behind the curtains.

I suspect that a lot of this weather/climate "debate" has to do with latitude, proximity to oceans, and their resultant influence on treeline. There is plenty of nasty wind around here (Glacier/Bob Marshall), but treeline is quite high relative to the peaks and thus there isn't any reason save preference to camp in exposed locations. I usually tarp it and scuttle down into the trees when conditions dictate.

I have been eye balling Roger's designs for a few years now. He has basic dimensions and versions of them here:

Summer
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/DIY_RNCSummer.htm

Winter
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/DIY_RNCWinter.htm

I am hoping to see a lot more pictures and some better detailed thoughts about his designs in the second installment to muster up the courage to build one myself.

Hint! Hint! ;)

Nice article!

But one thing that keeps coming up at BPL is:

"and winds of 100 to 150 kph (62 to 93 mph)"

This is good: http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/blog/2012/02/meaningless-precision/

In this case Roger even provided a measure of uncertainty: it's not 100.000 to 150.000 kph, but a windspeed in that rather broad range–the roundoff scale is on the order of 50km/h. 93mph indeed. By the "translator"'s reasoning the first number should be 62.137119 mph. Really?

Throughout most of this article, conversions are handled pretty well. But every time one isn't, a little piece of me dies.

Ok, I feel better for having gotten that out :)

Hi All,

I moved to Michigan in Febuary and have seen the craziest lightening and rain storms I have ever seen. I was Wild camping in Ireland last night and the weather was far from what was forecasted :-)

I am back out tomorrow for 4 nights and no doubt the weather will be different from the forecast.

Hi Ben

> "and winds of 100 to 150 kph (62 to 93 mph)"

Guilty as charged. That should have been 60 to 90 mph. I can only plead exhaustion by the time I got all the conversions done and all the pictures labelled…

Cheers
Roger

Hi James

Thanks for the comments. It might be more appropriate to change the sentence in your second para thus:
'He is poking fun at the 99% of the casual car campers out there that cannot even set up a *free standing* dome.'
Not restricted to the USA by any means.

> mostly disposable single use dome tents, well suited to the disposable nature of the crowd.
Ouch!
What really did concern me were the photos or videos I saw of people burning their (pop-up) tents after the event, so they didn't have to carry them home. They were standing around cheering as the tent burnt.
Sigh.

Cheers

Prevailing weather is one of the factors when choosing a tent but so is exposition when camping. In Europe, it's too common to camp in very exposed places, consistently, day after day if you're on a long route, well beyond the known weather forecast. It's a matter of population density and the fact that most of western Europe is so urbanized the only wild-ish places are high in the mountains. In North America, camping in protected locations is much more often an option, a good option.

I'd agree with this. Most of the members here are from the States, so of course the perception of where most people camp is going to be highly affected by the kinds of places that most people camp in in the States. But the US (and Australia) just doesn't have the population density that Europe (or here in Japan) does. That's going to leave you mostly camping very high up, away from the reaches of civilization below.

One of our regular BPL contributors usually reports the same for Japan.

Heh, heh… I take it that is me (though it could be Arapiles as well). Japan is so crowded and so tight land-wise, that the only places you can get away and do real backpacking is from 1,000 meters (3,000 feet) and up. Most of my camping is around 2,000 meters (6,000 ft). Since the mountains in Japan are extremely steep, flat ground is at a premium, and often those tend to be in very exposed saddles or ridges. So when you bring a shelter in Japan it must be able to handle high winds and very heavy rains. Going floor less in Japan often means sitting in ankle deep puddles or mud since you often have no choice of where to set down your shelter in the crowded camp grounds. People do use tunnel tents more these days, and they are what I use exclusively whenever I go hiking in Europe, but tunnels need big footprints for the many (very useful and effective) guy lines. More often than not I end up having to scramble in the bamboo grass and impenetrable creeping pine surrounding the scrape of flat open ground for the shelter, to try to get the pegs in and not succeeding. So smaller, alpine-style dome tents tend to be the most popular designs here in Japan. Most tarps and tarp tents would get blown to smithereens in the heavy winds, or the tendency to be pitched with exposed sides makes them very cold or wet inside with the side-blown rain. Recently, UL'ers have tended to go with enclosed pyramids like the Locus Gear Khufu, precisely because they have small footprints, can be stable with shorter guy lines, and can be pitched right to the ground.

I'd still prefer tunnel tents, though. For their weight they have so much more usable room than any other design. And they are so easy to pitch in any weather. During my wife and my 6-month bicycle journey around Europe we started with a geodesic dome tent, but it was so heavy and ungainly to carry around, that we sent it home and bought a tunnel tent for the rest of the trip. No matter what the weather it always performed perfectly, even way up north in the Shetlands, Norway, Sweden, and Scotland. During storms we'd make sure to set all the guy lines (double, like Roger suggested), crawl way back into the back of the tent, and lie on our mattresses reading books or napping while the front door was open and the storm lashed about.

So many here only use a solo shelter. This will make tunnels a tough sell. So few solo designs. I just never liked the end entry. Too tight to swing my big feet and long legs around in.

Well, the Akto, Competition, Photon, Scarp, Moment and Vela are all solo tunnels, just with one hoop instead of two. They set up exactly the same way as a two hoop tunnel.