Tunnel Tents Tutorial and State of the Market Report – Part 1: Definition and Pitching

[Addie Bedford]

Companion forum thread to:

Tunnel Tents Tutorial and State of the Market Report – Part 1: Definition and Pitching

[Jane Howe]

Roger,

I am looking forward to reading the Part II.

It has been proven many times, in wind tunnel experiments and also finite analysis simulation, that tunnel tent configuration is the best design for wind-resistance. People who deny tunnel design's superiority in wind resistance apparently do not have the knowledge of structural mechanics and fluid dynamics. Sometimes one may not need to fully understand how things work, but accepting truth and facts would certainly make one's life easier.

The owner of the Warmlite company, being an engineer of the aerospace industry before getting into the tent business, clearly understands the advantages of the tunnel configurations.

I hope that you will give a detailed discussion of the Warmlite's tents in the Part II of your article.

Ps. Unfortunately, the US outdoor market sometimes is so driven by outdoor-wannabee's "needs". For example, Osprey Atoms backpack has a biomechanically inefficiently design to cater the poser's needs for "venting at the back".

[Lawson Kline]

Hi Jane,

I hope you realize Hilleberg "The Tentmaker" also thinks their dome tents have more strength then their tunnels.. Maybe you and Roger know something they don't??

[peter michaloski]

1. So we have been hearing about your tent for a couple years. Are you going to have it manufactured? Or would you bless us with some patterns and instructions. I would be willing to pay for a pattern for MYOG types who can't afford a $700-$1000 tent. And live in extreme environments like Alaska.
2. Also have you ever tested Teepee style tents for wind loading? how do they compare I know they do pretty well with snow loading.
3. As a note I have the tarp tent scarp. They don't do too well snow loading you have to shake them off all the time. Haven't had it out in real strong winds yet but like roger said the tether attachments are the weak point and make me kinda nervous.

[Steven Scates MD]

I recently bought a Nallo 2 and pitched it for the first time in a hailstorm last month under windy conditions. It was my first experience with a tunnel tent, but it went very well. I pitched it alone, in the dark, and in the rain. It was completely dry inside when I crawled in and was stable in the wind all night, no problem. After reading your article, very glad I bought it.

Thanks, steve

[whitenoise .]

Thanks for the article, Roger. I have some similar sentiments to Lawson, however.

I know that you're a big proponent of tunnel tents, Roger, as well as many other people in climbing circles who experience crazy weather regularly here in the US. I also think that you come off as a bit biased towards tunnel tents without looking at the whole picture.

As an owner of a Firstlight, one of the influential factors in my purchasing decision was watching the same video as you cite in this review and coming to the complete opposite conclusion. The Firstlight weighs under 3lbs, pitches internally within a minute in high winds and is idiotproof in that regard, costs under $300, and only suffered a minor pole bend in sustained 60mph winds on an exposed slope. It also appeared that the tester didn't use the extra guyouts on the middle of the tent, nor did he take advantage of the clips on the top to tie it down further.

All that to say, I'd say that it performed admirably considering what it is and its intended usage. I know a 6lb Hilleberg can handle more wind and is more comfortable, but it takes longer to set up, requires far more guyouts, is vulnerable to snow-loading on the top (unlike the Firstlight), and costs 3x more.

I did appreciate the review, however, and have a question: amongst all the 2-person tube tent makers, which make/model is your favorite? Thanks!

[David Ure]

"I hope you realize Hilleberg "The Tentmaker" also thinks their dome tents have more strength then their tunnels.. Maybe you and Roger know something they don't??"

Hilleberg indicates their dome tents are statically stronger for snow load but that their tunnel tents are better in high winds.

[Jane Howe]

I used two Hilleberg tents, Akto and Nallo. I own Warmlite, MHW Trango, MHW Kiva, and many other type of shelters.

I am a materials scientist by training, with decent amount of knowledge in materials, mechanical design, and the application of light-weight structural materials in extreme conditions.

I am not selling any gear and have no commercial interest in gear reviews.

I am free to state the truth and facts. And for the sake of my conscience and public interest, share my knowledge with everyone.

Hilleberg and many other manufacturers may have a conflict of interest in disclose truth and fact completely to the public. It is just that plain and simple.

[Khader Ahmad]

Lawson and Sean:

I was a dirtbagger long time ago. until I had an argument with gravity, now I'm a half time backpacker. A climbing tent has different characteristics than a backpacking tent, I love the I-tent, but a tunnel is way more wind stable and lighter and more comfortable so it's better for backpacking, the I-tent is better for climbing: smaller footprint, freestanding, tie in…

Different tools, different uses.

BTW my favorite tunnel is helsport rondane 2. I've used 2 more: TNF Westwind (Excellent tent, old model) and a Slovenian? tent I got from some russians (absolutely the best tent I've seen).

In my parking I've got the Helsport, a firstlight (love it) and 2 tarps (sil). I recommend the helsport, and right now is a good time to buy it, it's going to be discontinued soon so it's on sale.

[whitenoise .]

Thanks for your thoughts Khader. Checked out the Rhondane Light 2, and it looks very decent. About 4.5 lbs, a vestibule, tube design, more roomy than the Firstlight… and right now on some websites for about $400.

I wish they had some here in the states so I could check them out. Downside though is a lot of guyouts. But I'll look into it. Thanks for your thoughts re: climbing vs. backpacking. Different tents for different applications.

One thing though, if it's really that windy out, it's got to take a long time to set up a tube tent like that, right?

[Khader Ahmad]

In really windy conditions, I personally believe that they are the second fastest to set up (MK1, I-tents.. being the first), but the safest, as making a mistake is difficult if you know the ninja ways.

[Monty Montana]

Hi Roger! First, I'd like to say how much I appreciate your writing style: your wit really shines through in this article…you had me fairly howling with laughter on more than a few occasions. Thanks!

Second, I've no first-hand experience with true tunnel tents but have always been intrigued by them ever since I came across a Warmlite in the Beartooth Mnts back in the '70s. A little later REI came out with a tunnel tent but they discontinued it in favor of all their permutations of the dome before I could afford to purchase one. Too bad. Now your article has reignited that interest because I really could use a decent winter tent, so I look forward to the next installment.

Addie, could you tell me why some folks apparently get their BPL posts a day before I get mine? I notice by the time stamp that some were able to read the article on the 10th, whereas it didn't show up in my mailbox until after 10AM on the 11TH. No big deal, just wondering is all. Thanks.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi James

I don't want to preempt Part 2 by commenting too much on individual tents, but I will say I am NOT happy with the current Warmlite tents. Details in part 2.

> I happened to "knee" the wife in the chest while spinning around.
I bet that cost you a week or two of grovelling! :-)

> My wife cares not for seeing 'coons or 'porkypines eyes staring at her
Or frogs, or small antechinus, or … :-)

Cheers

[Lawson Kline]

Hi David,

You said >>>"Hilleberg indicates their dome tents are statically stronger for snow load but that their tunnel tents are better in high winds."

Could you post a web-link where they say this?

All I can find is the following:

"A Hilleberg tunnel tent’s design provides the greatest weight to space ratio."

"A Hilleberg dome tent’s self-supporting or free standing design provides the greatest snow-load handling."

"Tunnel or Dome?" "Our tunnel tents offer lighter weight and more useable space. Our dome tents provide better static load stability because of their crossed-pole structure, and so withstand snow loading better", "using weight as the only criteria is problematic: if you need static strength, a small increase in extra weight is an insignificant price to pay."

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Lawson

> You talk like Australia and Europe is the land of the worlds harshest weather, best
> equipment, and the worlds smartest people.
Yeah, I'm biased. You know that. At least we don't have the Tea Party here …

As far as the weather goes, a slightly different matter. The American outdoors market is huge and America does get a lot of dry stable weather in some areas. That means there is a good demand for cheap mass-market tents for fine weather. Nothing the matter with that of course, but we don't have that blessing here. Would we like a guarrantee on fine weather? Too right!

Thing is, I can be camped in our alpine region or in our local mountains at the peak of summer and get sleet, hail or snow with 2 hours notice. So our needs are a bit different.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Peter

> Are you going to have it manufactured?
Be very nice, wouldn't it?
I have been approached about this as a result of this articpel. I cannot say anything more at this stage. Will anything come of it? Dunno at this stage. But stay tuned.

> have you ever tested Teepee style tents for wind loading?
Personally tested, no. However:

Used by the Australian National Antarctic Research Expedition (ANARE) in the Antarctic. However, before you get too excited, I had better mention that the 4 poles are something like 4" aluminium tubing, while the guy ropes are something like 6 mm accessory cord. They carry it on a sled.
The problem is that the light ones can lose floor space when the wind flattens the side a bit.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Sean

Yes, good tunnels tend to be expensive. Unfortunate. I know the Firstlight is cheap and light, but given a bent pole the first night, what about the rest of the week?

> a question: amongst all the 2-person tube tent makers, which make/model is your favorite?
Answered in Part 2!
More seriously, selecting a 'best' tent is something I refuse to do because it depends so much on what criteria you have. Some of the tents listed in Part 2 are cheaper than others; some are more robust against novices; some are more storm-resistent, and some are more roomy.
See Part 2.

Cheers

[Lawson Kline]

I love a good Debate, Especially when it doesn't get personal : ) You said>>"America does get a lot of dry stable weather in some areas. That means there is a good demand for cheap mass-market tents for fine weather."

My reply is where is all this dry stable weather? In the Southwest were less then 5% of the population lives? The rest of the people in America live where there is plenty of rain, snow, wind and cold weather..

The reason there is a such a demand for cheap mass market tents has nothing to do with weather patterns and everything to do with our Walmart Society.. Not cutthroat capitalism, but more so greed. The big Corporations are greedy and want to make as much profit as possible, so they use substandard materials, child labor, and pollute the crap out of the environment. You would think a majority of American shoppers would care, but they don't because they are greedy too. They don't want to get off their wallets.. They blame having no money but what they don't realize is by buying these lower quality and lower priced things, the only demand they are creating is for more cheap labor and more inferior products..

[WV Hiker]

Roger said:

"Thing is, I can be camped in our alpine region or in our local mountains at the peak of summer and get sleet, hail or snow with 2 hours notice. So our needs are a bit different."

Well Roger, I can be camped in certain parts of the Appalachians and have sleet, hail, torrential downpours and the occasional snow along with 60+ mph winds in the summer also. Nothing unusual there and I suspect several people on this forum have been in similar situations. I've run through all of these scenarios in dome tents, tipi tents and yes even a tunnel tent (Hilleberg) with nary a problem. Now, these haven't been cheap shelters which is what you seem to assume that the majority of US backpackers use. This is disingenuous and potentially offensive. I look for unbiased (or at least as much as possible) articles on BPL and lately some have been lacking in that department. Many of us have been backpacking for decades and have tried lots of gear. All I want is the facts, not some incorrect commentary on how the US is seemingly blessed with blue-bird skies all the time and we don't need serious gear.

[Ken Thompson]

I have experienced wind, rain, hail, snow flurries and more rain in a 45 mile stretch in an hour and a half drive to the trailhead where it was sunny. Got 45 mph gusts later that night. We get 60 to 100 inches of rain here as well. Has Roger ever traveled in the US?

[Jason Elsworth]

Congratulations Roger. You seem to have found a way to unite America. Have you considered running for office?:).

[Jane Howe]

This reply comments Sean D's comments.

I had an Integral Designs MK1XL and used on Mt. Rainier when it had 60mph gusty wind. The MK1XL did fine. I also used a Warmlite's C2 right below the Chasm Lake near Long's Peak when the wind gust was about 60-70mph. I would say that under the same wind speed, the Warmlite C2 gave me less worry. Stevenson said that his Warmlite can withstand 160mph wind.

After the comparison, I sold the MK1XL and bought a BD light because it is about 2lbs lighter. A free-standing dome design does have its place on mountains. For alpinists who go light and fast, we do NOT climb if the weather gets too bad.

[Alister R Barnes]

Years ago, I was on a beach on the Napali Coast, Kauai. Two free standing domes had been erected on the sand. A woman was asleep in one. The day was calm, then a moderate gust of wind came, and bowled tent complete with woman about 50 metres until it fell in the sea. The woman was bruised and shaken, but the tent poles all broke. The second dome had been pegged down with sticks of driftwood, and did not move. Since then I have not considered free-standing an advantage.

[ROBERT TANGEN]

You said: “… some debate as to whether I was being too harsh in my comparisons between tunnels and pop-ups, especially as the pop-ups are sometimes lighter. I make no apologies here for my hardline approach to this subject.”
I’m sure that the following hiking trip was far too easy and under conditions far less extreme than those you experience every day, but in their book describing their award-winning climb of the Rupal Face of Nanga Parbat, Vince Anderson and Steve House have a great photo of a Black Diamond Firstlight perched on a teeny-tiny ledge thousands of feet above the valley. Of course, a flimsy pop-up like that could never withstand the howling winds and extreme cold of Australia, the coldest and windiest place on Earth. P.S. Double-poling of pop-up tents is often very easy and very effective.

[Ken Thompson]

What's with all the BPL articles lately with the snarky, opinionated, insulting tones about them?

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