Product Ideas and Feedback Wanted

Didn't Steve say his biggest seller is 1/8"?

Many people use air mats and want 1/8" for protection. Also many torso length foam mat users like to use 1/8" full length under the short mat. Your widths and lengths look good.

Good point, but why would Steve discontinue the PG pads with the 1/8" thickness but keep selling the PF pads with the 1/2" thickness..

Any thoughts on this Steve?

Thanks,
Lawson

If you only started with one size pad I'd vote for the 1/2" pad 20×72.

Another one here who would like to see you purchase the materials and techniques from Kooka Bay and make these great mats under your own brand name. None of the big outfits are filling this niche for a lightweight, thick and warm insulated air pad–they are all heavier and not as warm.

However, as you already mentioned in the Kooka Bay thread, purchasing the entire business at this point would not be an option. Any "good will" is unfortunately no longer existent, and you certainly don't want to take on the liabilities.

The aluminized pad, in 3/4 to 1 inch thickness. People buy inflatable pads because they are comfortable, even though lighter foam pads exist with similar R values.

So to make a foam pad more attractive it either has to be radically lighter, much cheaper, or much warmer without completely sacrificing comfort.

For lighter, 1/8th is fine when used with an inflatable pad, but doesn't seem like a breakout product. It is really a liner pad, rather than a stand-alone. The fact that you can deliver a thicker pad that is lighter or identical to the main foam pad competition may be the way to emphasize lighter.

Cheaper isn't a good stand alone strategy, because very price sensitive folks buy the blue pads at their hardware store/walmart. They aren't your market anyway.

Warmer is in the bag, from your description. So that seems like a place to differentiate.

I would guess that a 3/4 inch or 1 inch pad that is as light as a ridgerest, and similarly priced but is MUCH warmer, and significantly more comfortable seems notable.

I also second the idea to make it an instantly recognizable color, maybe even orange. That is good branding, though many would argue that aluminum on one side and orange on the other is obnoxious. :)

a lot of us have taken a neoair large and cut it to 50 inches so we could
have a 25 inch wide pad. This way you get a comfortable pad that is light especially if you sleep on your side.

I think there is a niche out there that no one else has tapped, for a 25" by 55" pad either 3/4 or 1/2 inch thick.

Here's my complete honest answer on that – I have a lot of 1/2" PF pads…and I mean ALOT. So technically, I am not really continuing to stock them, I just won't run out for probably 2 years :) The 1/8" sheets are hugely popular in comparison. I run out every few months but I don't enjoy selling that many pads anymore – there is no real technical challenge for me and that is kind of what drives me at my little business. I want to spend my time on more challenging products so I have opted to not reorder. I already dropped the 24" wide pad from my website the other day and hopefully, I will be out of stock of the 50" pad shortly!

As for Kookabay: Aren't they just heat seal-able material bonded with an impulse sealer? Don't get me wrong, they are great products, I even bought a killer custom down filled one from him last year and love it. I just think if someone put some time and money into it, they could definitely learn the tricks to get it right. That said, I haven't tried it myself so maybe I am wrong.

Hope that helps!

No, Steve you are right. Kookabay style pads are really easy to make, even with an iron. Just takes some time. An impulse sealer is a thousand times faster. A production style valve would be the only thing someone would need to locate. Seems like it took Bender a long time to finally get that part sorted out.

Ryan

Here's another random idea – talk to Roger Caffin and make his sweet 4 season tent. I am suggesting this mainly because I want one =D

If the 1" thickness really does have R6, it could be a Ridgerest-killer AND an Xtherm-killer.
This is getting a little violent!

Lawson, plus one on the 1/8" pads, but at 72", leaving you free to cut it down or use the material that you don't need for extra projects. GG charges too much shipping to justify buying small things from them. I love my gossamer gear evazote 1/8, except for it being too short, it's one of my favorite products, I can easily see why the other seller sold those by a huge margin over others, frame pad, sit pad, air mattress under pad/protector, lie pad for relaxing, and all at just around 2oz. I got a 3/16" plastazote from I think oware, that is nice but the foam is clearly not as strong as the evazote, but is much lighter, but has great r value in theory. Excellent material by the way for UL small backpack straps, the plastazote stuff that is. However, I found the evazote to be a really good foam material, how is the stuff you are using in comparison, toughness, flexibility, resilience, etc?

Plus 8, or however many I have bought from you, on the titanium stakes, though I'd like to see them half sharpened, into a cone type tip with a flat end, better insertion into hard ground. Your titanium is HARD, my files could barely get it down, took a long time per stake, that's a positive too, this is good grade titanium.

Mcnett smart suds, sold under the Outgo brand. This stuff is impossible to find online almost with reasonable shipping, REI doesn't carry it, I had to buy it from a motorhome junk site, and now get their spam mail all the time. Odorless soap, that is. A small item, but it was much harder to locate than it should have been. I asked Joe V if he was interested in carrying it, and he said he doesn't use it so didn't want to bother with it, makes sense, but I think there's a market there.

I am quite interested in a 1" foam pad, I do not love much about the new thin thermarest, neoair or prolite, stuff other than their weight and packed size. The one thing, that would be quite funny in terms of us going full circle, is the thought of all these UL backpackers carrying the big rolls of foam pad outside their backpack. But the thought of being able to remove the need to be so careful clearing sharp things from under pad is nice, as well as never having to worry about a flat. Slow leaks aren't really fixable in the field I think unless you are lucky, bigger holes, yes.

But the size is going to be a major consideration, let's see… for 20×72, starting at 8" flat, folding, means about 6"x12" thick by 20" for a 1". Rolled would be a roll around 10" or so I guess. That means strapping under pack, or on side, or on back. Top would be annoying. Sounds like the old external frames with extension under sack. Or something like I think it was Zimmer with his bear can under pack design, except with more room to roll the pad. My guess is a lot of people won't want to have that aesthetic issue of their nice ul pack with a big old pad stuck on it.

Also wondr about walking in rain, you don't want to have to dry the pad, so it would need some type of protection if carried outside of pac, and if inside, then the pak needs to be something like 2" bigger in diameter to hold it if it's put inside. I can't remember how I used to do my old 1/2" foam pad back in the day with rain, was a long time ago. Maybe it was largely water resistant and a quick wipe would get rid of the rain water?

What's the compression like with weight on it for 3/4 or 1"? Compared to a 3/4 or 1" thermarest self inflator? ie, side sleeping, hipbone, shoulder digging into pad.

I would have said the lineloc 3 side release buckles and the d ring cord things, but zimmerbuilt just started to carry items like that on his website and there probably isn't a need for more suppliers given the small number that will sell.

A range of rasant threads, the kind Roger like? 75 and 120 types? Probably not economical to carry all the colors, but those are mentioned by him all the time here. I'd say the range of tex 40 gutermann in 765 yd spools but diygearsupply seems to be carrying more colors of that now so maybe it would just make sense for him to expand his inventory of colors than to compete in a small market. But nobody in the myog supply place is selling rasant from what I see.

1 inch foam pad, stuffed internally, will require about a 2.5" greater diameter for overall pack, give or take if my math is right, small packs 3" greater. But payback is stiff frame with no padding needed, probably no stays for larger loads if strapped in correctly. Interesting idea, tempting.

Downsides might be the pack being more prone to puncture because it has stiff sides, also much harder to use compression straps on sides because pad would be too stiff. Just up zimmerbuilt or zpack type designs alley. As with bear cans, pack is probably best built around such a pad, in keeping with the notion that one picks ones pack based on ones gear.

Older'ish thread, but has there been any development on a Ridgerest Killer? Like others, I would love to have a thicker (and more comfy) foam pad. Thanks!

+1 on the ridgerest killer and wondering about developments

I've also noticed that there is a lack of pads wider than 20 inches for hammock users.

Gossamer Gear has super expensive shipping, and their wide pad is only 1/8 of an inch thick.

I'm about to order another ridgerest so I can piece them together and make a pad wide/thick enough for my hammock in the winter.

Never mind!

Coleman makes this:

http://www.coleman.com/product/rest-easytrade-camp-pad/890A247#.T8bFo5je6JU

Size: 3/8" x 24" x 72"
Green closed cell polyethylene foam

I think the average buyer at a sporting goods store gives this a bad-to-mediocre review because it isn't understood as an insulating piece. I'd be disappointed with it as a comfy car-camping pad (I'm not sure how SUL folks sleep on only a GG 1/8" pad!). I use it with an inflatable for 3-season temps and to provide structure for my Exodus pack.

I bought one at Fred Meyer here in the PNW and cut it down to approximately 55" x 18.5" (I'm sure I took a measurement of a Gossamer Gear or Suluk46 pad, but I can't remember now why I cut it to those numbers). Weight is 5.3 oz.

Another vote for 1/8" thick, 24" by 78 or so, as long as it is more tear resistant than plastazote.

Steve

Lawson, any updates bringing these pads to market?

As for size, same vote for me as Stephen – 1/8" thick, and big size so I can cut it down to whatever I want if need be. I would use it for the extra insulation, but also as a ground sheet of sorts under my bivi.

None yet. Dealing with this mill has been like summiting Everest. Last week I started working with one of their distributors hoping that the process would be easier but it hasn't. I did however receive some rough info on pricing and its looking good.. I am just waiting for more info on lead times, minimum order sizes, colors, etc.. To keep it simple I will most likely start off with one size. It seems as if most of you wanted a 1/8" x 24" x 78" pad so I will start off there and then do one size around 5/8" thickness. Most likely I will go 24" x 78" since the foam is very easy to cut down.. I will keep this thread posted on any developments.

Thanks,
Lawson

+ 20 on a CCF pad as comfier than a z-lite. +80 if it's comparable to a 1" Thermarest.

25-30 years ago, we had a relatively comfy 3/4" thick white memory-foam-ish pad – that was smooth. It was really easy to wipe rain off the pad :).

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the thicker pad.

5/8"x24"x78" sounds great to me, even if I can't roll it up inside my pack.

Just my 2 cents worth, but I have been looking for a 24"x48"x1" pad. I have a Therm-A-Rest Prolite 4 Large and a Therm-A-Rest Prolite 3 Short. The 4 large is the perfect width. I can sleep on it without rolling off, without my arms resting on the ground, and with being able to turn over. However, the 4 is heavy and more than needed in the summer. The 3 Short is just the right length since I often put my pillow off the top of the pad and draw up my legs and actually sleep on it with just my feet off. However, it is too narrow. My arms are off the sides and I find it difficult to roll over without getting off the pad. I would prefer a wide, short pad that is much lighter than the 4 large. I do like the comfort of the 1.5" 4 large, but am adequately comfortable on the .5" 3 short.

+1 on the BPL pillow. I have not found them in small quantities. This pillow is perfect for me to use on a pad or off a pad; on my back or on my side. It weighs practically nothing. I would also like to see a silk or some other lite cover for the pillow.