Product Ideas and Feedback Wanted

[Gerry Volpe]

Another vote for the 24" wide 1/8" pads if you are stocking only one. I have been thinking about picking up something similar to use in conjunction with an inflatable for protection and backup. I really want the least bulk possible but like the idea of a wider pad for my elbows and large frameless pack.

[Anonymous]

Hi Lawson,

I would like to have an easy source for Nylofume bags as pack liners.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=51113&skip_to_post=432459#432459

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

The Ridgerest-Killer idea sounds pretty good to me. People could justify it as a stand-alone pad, or it could be used under an inflatable pad for winter use. Pretty flexible. One thing with the Ridgerest-Killer is that it's only going to be a killer if the price is also competitive. The Ridgerest is pretty cheap at $30. Ideally you'd price this the same or a bit less so people have no way to justify a Ridgerest. A bit more expensive ($35-$40) would probably still sell but once you get over that people are going to think twice.

I'm not so sure about the whole thinner 'padded groundsheet' concept. I have one from Suluk46 but now that I have it, I don't see much point to it. It's super bulky, and why use it over a lighter plastic groundsheet? I was thinking the extra R-value would be nice, but now I realize I don't need it in the summer, and in the winter the PG sheet doesn't add enough warmth to turn a R-2/3 pad into a winter one. So it's use is primarily for fringe season tool for me. Maybe just personal gear styles, but I don't think I'd find one as useable as a 0.5 or 5/8" pad that could either be used by itself or as a winter supplement.

One idea is a fuel bottle/nozzle kit. Packafeather sells a great nozzle (see link) which perhaps could be improved upon further, or the idea could be applied to a wider range of bottle lids. Do this with a lid that fits 8oz bottles and it would be perfect for those shorter trips. Low inventory cost:
http://packafeather.com/fuelbottle.html

[Andrew F]

Dan, I don't want to derail Lawson's thread too badly, but I find a number of advantages in the padded ground sheet:

-it protects my inflatable pad from poky stuff on the ground; several times I have had stuff come through my plastic ground sheet but not the 1/8 foam
-if my inflatable pad (NeoAir) does get punctured, I would have some kind of back up insulation other than just my backpack
-it provides some back panel padding since the NeoAir has basically none
-it adds a small amount of warmth that makes the NeoAir OK down to about 25F instead of 30F, and it provides some insulation under my feet that my torso pad doesn't cover
-it provides a nice sit pad for around camp

I think the aluminized version is a great idea, it would significantly improve the R value of such a thin pad.

[J Boro]

Lawson, sounds like you are on to something here. I'm not in the industry, but I'd imagine that your marketing and product offerings need to be a bit tailored to your potential customers. If you are offering a product that is the same thickness as the RR, but warmer and lighter I think I would catch on quickly provided it receives excellent reviews. RR has the name brand recognition so you'll need to overcome that in order to get people on board. I think this pad would be well received for those avid backpackers or very knowledgeable consumers.

If you are trying to appeal to the wider audience, it might be worth having a pad that is the same weight as the RR, but clearly superior in terms of thickness, warmth, and comfort. This pad would appear as instantly superior than the RR without relying on the consumers knowledge of r values or ounce counting.

Personally, I sometimes feel beaten up after a night on my z rest. I'd like a more comfortable foam pad as I don't like to mess with inflating/deflating. FAST and light :-)

[Eric Lundquist]

One idea is a fuel bottle/nozzle kit…

I'd also be interested in a different fuel bottle. I purchased some RumRunner 8oz flasks in the hopes of using it as a collapsible fuel bottle but the plastic they used was not suitable for denatured alcohol. Something similar but can resist the toxicity of denatured alcohol would be useful. I've looked elsewhere but no one else carries one.

[Anonymous]

I love the ridge rest killer idea. But I'd like to have an even thicker, softer 3/4 inch pad. Ridge rests are too hard, that's why I got a neoair. Eventually it'd be nice to have a choice of all 3 thicknesses because I'd like a thinner full length one on the bottom with a thicker one about 36" long on top of that to go under me from shoulders to thighs. I find with the neoair short coupled with a foam pad for my legs there is too much drop off between a 2.5" neoair to a 1/4 or 1/2" foam pad. Plus it's hard to trust an inflatable and a light, comfortable foam pad would win over a lot of people.

[John Nausieda]

I think you might want to get a sample of this metallic bag and test it as an Opsak alternative . If it works you would be doing everybody a favor by offering an alternative.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=49291

[Greg Yurkovich]

I think we have talked about this before. How about a wet rib and a rib. Maybe get something like that in cuben fiber.

[Lawson Kline]

Thanks for the link on the bags.. A few months back I found a bag manufacturer that manufactures odor proof bags in 4mil thickness with a double zip lock type seal. I guess they use the bags in the medical industry for something special, so the cost is crazy high because they have to be sterilized and certified but the film they use for the bags isn't anything exotic and the company said there are other companies that can make bags using the same odor proof film with the same seals for alot cheaper. I have contacted a few of these companies but have yet to have any luck. The search continues..

Thanks,
Lawson

[Here There]

"I guess they use the bags in the medical industry for something special"

I must be tired today because I got a good chuckle from the possibilities that jumped to mind.

Back to the original thread topic, I like the ridgerest killer idea, especially something wider than 20"

-David

[Bridget Guildner]

+1 to the 3/4" Ridge Rest killer idea! For me, the primary advantage of the extra thickness would be the added warmth, so that I could use it as an all-season pad. I'm a college student without much extra money to devote to gear, so it's great when I can use a single item for almost any trip. I've been looking to replace my ancient early-80s torso-length Thermarest, but I haven't seen anything with the right weight:warmth:price ratios yet. Assuming the figures quoted are accurate, this pad would land squarely in that sweet spot, and I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Cheers!

[Jeremy G]

+1 on the ridgerest killer. Aluminized coating on one side for added heat reflection and added durability. Some other type of coating on the other side for added durability.

+1 for an 1/8" pad, 24" wide x XX (cut to size) and again a coating on each side same as above for heat reflection on one side and durability on both sides. Or, maybe something similar to the window heat shrink plastic could be laminated to each side?? Or even the same material they use for the Kookabay DAM's could be used in conjuction with the CCF. It would just need to have some little vents on the end to be able to roll it up and yet let it "self-inflate" for the whole 1/8". Or maybe it's just laminated on one side of the CCF to keep the weight down.

And as mentioned in another thread, if you can get the techniques and equipment from Kookabay, you'd be set.

[Lawson Kline]

>>>"I guess they use the bags in the medical industry for something special" I must be tired today because I got a good chuckle from the possibilities that jumped to mind.

Howabout there is nothing worse then waking up stiff. hahaha

[MFR]

Another +1 on the 3/4" to 1" foam pad offerings. Especially 24"-wide versions. With my broad shoulders, 20" just barely cuts it.

And on the tarp kits, including the necessary bonding materials/instructions would be huge as well. I'm less concerned about the cutting (though, that is really convenient) than being able to get everything I might need beyond basic sewing materials, etc. in one easy place.

[Steven Evans]

Lawson,
I'll give you some feedback – from someone who has been selling pads for a couple of years now. I used to carry a bunch of thickness up to 1/2" in full lengths and widths. My 1/8" X 24" X 72" pad outsold everything by hundreds. Next in line would be the 1/8" X 50" X 72". I ended up dropping all the other thicknesses and sticking with just the 1/8" thick sheets. Of course, I am up here in Canada but most of my sales are down to you guys. Obviously I can't guarantee you will have the same results but that was what I experienced.

Why I am telling you this? :)
Because I am dropping the PG sheets from my product line (still keeping the PF sheets though) as soon as I sell out. I may bring them back in the future at some point but for now, you can have all my business!

[chris smead]

A 3 inch titanium windscreen that attaches to your ti pot like a skirt, has vent holes all around, and stays in place via a little spring.
One size fits all, because the purchaser can cut it to size with scissors. I'd buy it :)

[. .]

+1 on 1/8" x 24" WIDE pads (you can always stack them!)

[josh wagner]

-i think you make the best stake in the business. get them back, and keep them in stock. i feel people will look for alternatives when they want to buy something and you're out of stock.

-a MYOG hammock? a cut piece of 1.1,1.5,1.7 (already hemmed), 48 feet of amsteel (or 12 ft whoopies), 6 ft straps, and a biner. hammocks are more popular than ever and only gaining momentum. i'm not sure about all of this. maybe just offer the hammock body and a few piece of dyneema to whip the ends? that way people can use whatever type of suspension they want?

-a dedicated dslr cuben camera bag that attaches to the shoulder straps of ANY pack. this bag should be water tight, padded (with ccf maybe?), not cumbersome of overly big, and easy to access. basically like zpacks' idea but with padding and a waterproof zipper running around the lid.

[Steven Adeff]

Lawson,

I'm +1'ing the sentiment on the MYOG kits, I'm just not where I can spend the money now, but once I'm ready I'm looking to do a zpacks style hammock tarp with doors in cuben.

They may not be huge sellers, but I definitely like the idea and hope you keep the options on your site.

I also +1 the adhesives idea, it's what's kept me from doing cuben to this point, and from what I understand the adhesives work very well with silnylon etc. as well.

[Rick Horne]

Other products:

– Kooka Bay type inflatable pads

[jscott]

A big +1 on the titanium windscreen. There's a crying need for a simple, light, long lasting canister stove windscreen.

[Lawson Kline]

Wow. So many people are commenting on this. Its great. Thanks for your feedback everyone : ) It seems as if everyone likes a different thickness pad. Everything from 1/8" to 3/4"+ which makes me realize its going to be very hard to decide on one thickness. I am still leaning towards the 1/2"-5/8" range but I am open to suggestions on why this would be a bad thickness.. I guess the next question is length and width. Do my proposed sizes sound good? 20"x50", 20"x72", and 24"x78"??

Hi Steve,
Thanks for the info on the 1/8" pads.

Thanks,
Lawson

[Eric Lundquist]

How would the sheets arrive to you? If they are already precut at 50", 72", 78" then fine but if they came in on a roll you could have them cut to order. Might be nice as many of us cut them down to a preferred length anyway.

[Lawson Kline]

I would have them pre-cut since there is not enough time in the day to custom cut each pad.

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