Ultra Light Bear Canister

Kudos for innovation.

But…as others have mentioned, dont like the frying pan lid idea because of smell and mess. Also, dont like how there are more parts then need be. Would hate to lose those screws, just another tiny thing to have to keep track of. If you lost them, looks like you are SOL.And in Bear country, it is a serious matter to have food secured for safty to you and your food supply.

Also, what if the lid does get punctured by a bear tooth or the like, now you have a hole in your frying pan!

I just wanted to make sure everyone realized that the 1 pound, 5 ounce weight for the smaller unit is for the cut up Alhambra water bottle only. It does not include the weight of the "frying pan" lid nor internal support. Those two items add an additional 6 ounces, which brings the total weight for the smaller unit to 1 pound, 11 ounces.

I e-mailed the company and they confirmed this. They explained that since the lid/pan and internal support/pan handle can be used with both the smaller and larger unit, they don't include the weight into the description of each individual unit.

Seems a bit misleading to me, but maybe I'm the minority here.

"Seems a bit misleading to me, but maybe I'm the minority here."

It's misleading. But that is what a marketing department is for.

–B.G.–

Alex: Thanks for tracking that data down.

Yes, it's misleading. Each canister spec should include its weight AS USED, since if you have the lid on the other canister, the first canister is just a goldfish bowl.

Lots of people are calling it a frying pan, but unlike HikinJim, I'd don't do omelets or pancakes on the trail. And I certaily don't cook fish or any meat in areas with real bears (brown, polar) around. I see that pan as a way to boil water and do normal pot things, especially if I made a lightweight lid for it.

"Seems a bit misleading to me, but maybe I'm the minority here."

Add one to your count. I'm done with these guys. I don't deal with people who practice deception in their marketing. At 1# 11 oz for 300 c.i., this is nothing but a mini Garcia and likely not as bombproof.

You know, if you have a good product, sooner or later it will "sell itself."

If you don't have a good product, then you need a marketing department that is ethically challenged.

–B.G.–

I actually didn't mind the music and was developing a positive feel for these cans until I was overtaken by the frustration of trying to compare the volume with other cans and the blatant misrepresentation of the weight.

While I think the pan idea can be useful, I stopped paying attention when they listed the volume in liters instead of cubic inches. Either they're out of touch with their potential customers or they were trying to obfuscate the volume and making it harder to compare to its competitors.

The first thing that caught my eye was their forward-thinking statements and promises. Well, they probably feel that they are forced to do that. They probably recognize that their product is slightly inferior, so they have to increase the hype in order to get it to move at all. Their other tactic might be to lower the price.

–B.G.–

DavidinKenai, "Alex: Thanks for trackign that data down."

Your welcome, David. When I first read the less than possitive comments in the thread, I thought "c'mon guys, give a new product a chance." I went to their site, checked out the specs, and began to compare the numbers with the other offerings to see how their products stacked up against the competition. While reading the product description and specs, I felt like the way the information was presented seemed awkward (e.g. "cannister" weight and lid weight seperated), which is what prompted me to e-mail the company for a confirmed total wieght. The good news is that the company replied to my e-mail in a couple of hours, but as you all know, not with the response I would have liked to receive.

That's astounding, so the canister 11 liter size weighs 2 pounds 4oz plus 6 oz for the lid, ie, 2 pounds 10 oz? A touch more than a bearvault that is?

Talk about deceptive advertising, I agree, I'll skip these guys in any future canister considerations.

Good to see some active BS detection goin on here, I thought at first it was a negative over-reaction, but it appears to have merely been a a finely honed BS detector at work.

So I guess the bear canister weight/price issue really is a hard nut to crack, explains why bearvault hasn't changed all that much, or the Garcias.

A couple of years ago I saw a backpacker loading up his pack at a Yosemite trailhead, including his bear canister. At least that's what it was supposed to be.

It was a home-made bear canister made out of a Rubbermaid container and a lot of duct tape.

First of all, I don't think it would do more than slightly slow down an eager Yosemite black bear. Second, if a park ranger caught him with that kind of crap, I'm sure there would have been a citation.

I don't know whether the backpacker didn't know any better, or whether he just didn't care.

–B.G.–

I'm all for innovation,especially in bear canisters. The thing I am not fond about is the price. The smaller is the same as the larger? Really? And if I buy both and get only one lid, that won't work very well. If I go out with a friend and we take both canisters, what do I use for lid? Buy a new one? And the price is? probably $50.

I would like to think that customer service would be good, especially if a bear can gain entry into it and a new lid is redeveloped….getting a free replacement.

They need to just give weights of each item and one can figure it out. The lid doesn't bother me. I wouldn't cook with it, so no problem there. I do wish they showed a much more detailed way of locking and unlocking the lid.

I'll keep my Bareboxer for short trips.

After nearly 5 years of waiting, Yosemite/SEKI has only recently been able to communicate with us regarding our product due to a lawsuit involving another bear canister that has finally been resolved. We are in process of finalizing our webpage and the input from this blog has been most helpful. We will rework our measurements into cubic inches. We must do a better job of educating the readers that Lighter1 is actually two products, a cooking pan for heating water and a bear canister. When used for dual purposes, there are few alternatives that are any lighter. I am a retired eye doctor and we are a Christian family. We are bothered that there are misconceptions as we felt we clearly state that there are two products. We will reword the webpage to make it as clear as possible that we are two products, a cooking pan for heating water and a bear canister to avoid any misunderstandings. We recognize that not everyone will always see value. For our family, we had to carry a pan for heating water and a bear canister to carry food, both of which took up space and weight. The dual purpose of this product effectively reduces both the weight and volume from our packs. We will be addressing the above issues when we do our final webpage update in the next few weeks and begin more active sales of our product. Thank you all for your opinions and insights. Steve

Your explanation doesn't make sense. You claim it is two products yet you could never get certified without using the two of them together. So in reality it is one product with a dual use for one of the components. I would scrap the whole frying pan idea if it added even a penny to the cost. If you are cooking away on your frying pan and need to get more water you would have to carry your open canister with you or risk having your whole canisters food eaten as the aroma of you dinner acts like a dinner bell.

You would think that a retired eye doctor could see the truth.

–B.G.–

"We must do a better job of educating the readers that Lighter1 is actually two products, a cooking pan for heating water and a bear canister."

So if a buyer decides NOT to purchase the lid, is there an alternate lid that can be purchased? Or does the buyer HAVE to get both products?

Why market the lid and the canister as two products if you need them both to work together as intended? Doesn't make sense to me…maybe I'm missing something here.

I think he is an optometrist, not an ophthamologist.

They are two products only if you can use them independently. Your advertising is misleading! You are not selling a 1 lb 5 oz bear canister, because it only becomes a bear canister once you add in the 5 oz lid and 1 oz support. And as for trying to tug on religious sympathies… well I am not a member of your religion; is your product only geared toward Christian backpackers?

All that being said, I am still quite interested in your product. I like to fry fish when I backpack, so this would be a 2 for 1 for me. At its true weight of 27 ounces it is still an ounce less than the Bearikade Scout at less than 1/2 the price (albeit 3/5th the volume… but still big enough for a weekend).

So … if you want to sell your product… I, as a potential customer, have some suggestions as you rework your website:

-clarify the price… you list price but don't say if that includes shipping and handling. Is tax charged anywhere?

-add contact information both email address and a physical location. I am not going to send someone with a website money if I don't know where they are located.

-list the actual total weight of the bear can… then advertise that weight includes the weight of the pan and handle.

-list volume on the website, not just in the video

-don't autostart the video

Additionally I would appreciate if you could address on here (and your website) if using the lid as a fry pan will cause it to warp and become unusable as a bear canister.

Ya, the statement "I am a retired eye doctor and we are a Christian family." was soooooo relevant to the product and this forum.

Steve

Are you deeply fearful of religion? Does even that question spark so much fear that you're ready to expound some alternate explanation? Are you old enough to realize you've been baited by the preceding sentence and to be mature enough to shut the hell up and focus upon THE PRODUCT being discussed?

We'll see.

Now, I'm off to the intarwebz to see if the web listing is updated. Like others, I believe the "product" isn't a product with a weight and price until all the necessary parts are together. I remain, however, ever optimistic regarding the creation of a better mousetrap.

[edit:] Yeah…okay, not thrilled with the marketing. I think it would be more truthful and useful to advert/sell the complete item, plus a "total set" with two bins and one lid, plus extra lids. This doesn't cost $85, it costs $125, minimum, right?[edit]

I see that they have updated the way you can order. Says they got Yosemite approval.

Everyone will lose that little screw rendering it useless as a canister.

I think the REVERSE would be better. A large POT with a lid attached. You could throw the food in a stuff sack. I wonder how much more it would weigh ?

Either that or make it a partial pot so I can cook more water with it… I don't use a pan… Hm…

Now that the Lighter1 products are approved for Yosemite and SEKI, I got to thinking about them again. Here is a summary I made to help me organize my thoughts. I'm sure someone will point out any errors in my thinking :) Besides, some may find it nice to have all the info collected in one place.

Counting the products just as bear canisters, I do not see either of the Lighter1 products as lighter than the competition:

Small Lighter1 — comparison is the Bare Boxer Contender
*) Size is nice — 7" diameter is the slimmest I know. As long as that is bear-proof, great — fits better in small packs.
*) Weight — Lighter1 is heavier (28 oz vs 26 oz)
*) Volume — Lighter1 is a little roomier (300 ci vs 275 ci)
*) Price — Lighter1 is much more expensive ($85 vs $39 (@ Detour Gear))
Lighter1 costs more than twice as much, is a little heavier (2 oz), and a little bigger (25 ci)

FWIW: Bearikade Scout is much more expensive than Lighter1, the same weight, and 2/3 bigger (500 vs 300 ci)

Big Lighter1 — comparison is Bearikade Weekender, since Lighter1 is claiming light weight:
*) Weight — Lighter1 is MUCH heavier (43 oz vs 31 oz, a 12 ounce difference)
*) Volume — same — both are ~650 ci
*) Price — Lighter1 is much less expensive
Lighter1 is much less expensive, but also much heavier

Big Lighter1 — comparison is Bear Vault 500, to keep the price closer
*) Weight — Lighter1 is heavier (43 oz vs 41 oz)
*) Volume — Lighter1 is smaller (650 ci vs 700 ci)
*) Price — Lighter1 is more expensive ($90 vs $72 (Amazon) or $80 (REI))
Bear Vault 500 wins on all counts, though not by a huge amount

Now Lighter1 would claim I am forgetting the dual use cover. Here are some comments on that:

Many folks interested in a light pack are using a Caldera Cone — in that case the Lighter1 "pot" is not usable, so there is no weight offset and the above points remain undisturbed.

The Lighter1 pot is usable if not using a Caldera Cone. In that case, let's compare to the Evernew 900ml titanium pot + lid — 4.2 oz (pot alone is 2.9 oz)

Take your pick:
*) 2.2 oz saving: 4.2 oz vs Lighter1 pot lid of 2 oz for mfr supplied lids
*) 2.9 oz saving: assumes make own lid for each, so we ignore those weights

— the small Lighter1 is less than one ounce lighter than the Contender, for more than double the price

— the large Lighter1 is still much heavier than the Weekender, and less than one ounce lighter than the Bear Vault 500 (while still more expensive)

As noted earlier in this thread, there are some serious questions about using the Lighter1 pot:

*) You need to keep the (open) container within arm's length until you are done cooking (or eating) and ready to close it back up, even if you only boil water. That could be awkward.

*) If you cook in the "pot", then you are adding food odors to the bear can — I know the canister is bear proof, but you still might want to think about odorizing it more than necessary.

*) If you use the pot's lid, then you have something with food odor that you cannot put in the canister (the lid is 7" diameter, and the canister opening is only 6" diameter). That is, among other things, illegal.

One advantage of the Bear Vault and Bearikade is that you can sit on them, which almost makes up for the weight and bulk. I don't think I'd want to sit on the Lighter 1, especially while frying fish! :-)