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Alone in a vast Alaskan wilderness, seven teens fend off a grizzly bear—then try to stay alive


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Home Forums General Forums General Lightweight Backpacking Discussion Alone in a vast Alaskan wilderness, seven teens fend off a grizzly bear—then try to stay alive

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  • #1820477
    BlackHatGuy
    Spectator

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    "I hope to go in my sleep."

    Yeah, I'd like to die during sex too……

    #1820478
    USA Duane Hall
    BPL Member

    @hikerduane

    Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada

    When I was in Wrangell-St Elias in 2009, I forgot to pick up bear spray at REI before we left Anchorage, but a couple guys had pistols, one only a 38, so he would have only made ole man griz mad. Six in our group, we got a little nervous at the junction of Tumble Creek and Jacksina Creek when we found an area in the willows with multiple piles of scat. Could not tell if griz or bear, no pepper spray or bear bells present.
    Duane

    #1820482
    Ryan Smith
    BPL Member

    @violentgreen

    Locale: East TN

    "I've been thinking about why people are so scared of bears compared to other things much more likely to kill them like lightning etc. I think its because bears are so unpredictable."

    I dunno. It might be the thought of being eaten alive and torn the shreds by a 500lb animal with huge teeth and claws. lol. Sounds like agony…Us humans are just afraid of animals. Snakes, spiders, sharks, dogs, mice etc. I think we're just programmed that way.

    Ryan

    #1820483
    Luke Schmidt
    BPL Member

    @cameron

    Locale: Alaska

    Shooting a bear with a 38 is a bad idea.
    Getting your friend to shoot a bear with a 38 is a good idea
    Step 1 – Identify bear as threat
    Step 2 – Instruct gullible friend to stand in front of you and shoot bear with 38
    Step 3 – Run while bear mauls friend:)

    #1820484
    Luke Schmidt
    BPL Member

    @cameron

    Locale: Alaska

    "I dunno. It might be the thought of being eaten alive and torn the shreds by a 500lb animal with huge teeth and claws. lol…Us humans are just afraid of animals. Snakes, spiders, sharks,etc. I think we're just programmed that way."

    Well that to Ryan. Claws sound a lot more painful than a lightning bolt I must admit. Also maybe an inborn survival instinct?

    #1820485
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    >"I've been thinking about why people are so scared of bears compared to other things much more likely to kill them like lightning etc.
    I think its because bears are so unpredictable."

    Lighting is pretty unpredictable, too. So are other drivers on the road. But I think you're on to something.

    I think a lot of it is fear of the unknown, or more accurately, anxiety about the unfamiliar. Look at the posters who are the calmest about bears – the guys who hike in grizzly country. I'm not complicant, but I don't fret over it either. I think more carefully about ice on the roads than bear feeding and denning seasons.

    And part of it is "lack of perceived control". Which is sort of like being unpredictable. You know bad things can happen while driving but you imagine your driving skills will save you. Whereas you have less sense of your ability to bring a 747 in for safe landing (especially now that there's a locked cockpit door). And if the wings come off, you're pooched and you have no control over your fate. You can't even imagine how you'd have any control.

    Bears are unpredictable and seemingly outside your control.

    But I'd point out that group size (not withstanding this NOLS incident) and noise ARE under your control. And, even including this incident, there haven't been FATAL incidents in large groups. Maybe that's why you 70 Japanese hiking together (to cross-post an incident from another thread).

    #1820492
    Luke Schmidt
    BPL Member

    @cameron

    Locale: Alaska

    Good points David. I agree you think you're in control of your car (or kayak or whatever) and thats why you feel safer. That actually might make these activities more dangerous for a lot of people.
    I'd also noticed the Alaskans seemed pretty chill about bears overall.

    #1820500
    Bob Bankhead
    BPL Member

    @wandering_bob

    Locale: Oregon, USA

    Logic dictates that in grizzly country, EVERY member of the party needs to carry their own bear spray. It's not a bad idea for Black Bear country either, but admittedly, the risk of encountering an aggressive black bear is far less than for a grizzly.

    Why all that redundancy instead of having only a few carry spray, you ask? Whatever happened to sharing gear weight?

    Well first, the group is not always going to be together. Individuals will separate from the group for various reasons at various times, and even if they don't go far or for long, they are away from the relative safety of numbers and so being vulnerable, need their own protection.

    Second, in the case of an incident – like this one – where there apparently was not time for the lead hiker to draw his spray (even if he had had it), at least one or more of the others would have and could use it to deter the attack.

    Third, No battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy. Someone always seems to fail to "get the memo" – in this case, to keep their spray handy AT ALL TIMES – and just stuffs it someplace where they can't get at it in time when it's needed.

    It's your a$$; cover it the way you want. But if you're going with me, you'll carry bear spray, just like me.

    We can debate ad nauseum about the probable effectiveness of properly utilized bear spray in detering an attack, but the fact remains that bear spray not carried or not available will NOT be used and will absolutely, positively NOT deter anything

    #1820509
    Paul Wagner
    BPL Member

    @balzaccom

    Locale: Wine Country

    David–I didn't really have you in mind for my post. I, like you, suspect that if I had been on that hike things might have gone down just about the way that they did.

    Except I would probably have been further back in the pack!

    #1820515
    JASON CUZZETTO
    BPL Member

    @cuzzettj

    Locale: NorCal - South Bay

    I will go with the 'I was an idiot when…'

    On the BPL course I took, I lost the Bear Spray I had been issued by Ryan and the Staff crossing a fence because I didn't know to use a (or two) Safety Pins to secure it to my pack…

    I wasn't too worried about it until we made camp on day two and I was heading to the, uh hem, bathroom; when one of my classmates said, "Don't get eaten by a grizzly. It is going to be really tough to run with your pants around your knees!"

    I turned heal right to him and said, my voice cracking, "Yeah, uh, can I borrow your spray for a few minutes!?!?!?".

    He, being the gruff old codger he was, grunted and handed it to me.

    #1820517
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "Bears are unpredictable and seemingly outside your control."

    Not to mention bigger, stronger, faster, meaner. No matter how unlikely that possibility may be, if one decides to come after you you've got a serious problem, and I think we all realize that instinctively.

    #1820519
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "Yeah, I'd like to die during sex too……"

    Maybe just after?

    #1820524
    BlackHatGuy
    Spectator

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    ""Yeah, I'd like to die during sex too……"

    "Maybe just after?"

    30 or 40 seconds just isn't going to make that much of a difference…..

    #1820531
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    So Doug. You're single. Huh?

    #1820539
    USA Duane Hall
    BPL Member

    @hikerduane

    Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada

    Luke, I was the second oldest and had the lightest pack, best shape too I believe. You are right, shooters to the front, don't miss.

    Good point also about being spread out, from day one, we did not always travel with at least one other sole close by. The only day we were close together and in willows, was the next to last day out. The first day I was out front of everyone by over a quarter to half a mile, but I had a radio. Listen for my scream. :)
    Duane

    #1820595
    Brian Austin
    Member

    @footeab

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    You don't need to fear wild bears. You need to fear domesticated bears.

    A wild bear will run as soon as they smell or hear you. A domesticated bear will look at you as a possible food source. Not your person, but what you might be carrying. Even then unless its a starving or very hungry bear you still have little to worry about.

    No people = no domesticated bears.

    Depends where you are.

    When I go into BC "great Bear forest" I carry bear spray in the boat/kayak, not sure why, but I do. Never backpacking. Trails used are generally bear trails where every 100 yards is bear scat or more often. One litteraly walks in bear "steps" created by bear feet over the years. Anytime you camp near a "clam dig" beach the area right next to said dig area will be INUNDATED with bear scat. It will be so thick generally you will wish you had a shovel to scrap the bear scat away just to set an area large enough for your sleeping bag.

    Be afraid of humans. Bears? Not so much.

    #1820603
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    assume you're a guide. A client pays you to take them out in grizzly country. You know the statistics on attacks and how to mitigate the risk. Your insurance company knows this as well, and expects you to manage the risks appropriately. You ignore the risk and your client gets mauled. Do you think your insurance company would continue to protect you, or drop you in an instant?

    bears are all cute and fuzzzay … you should just pet em and tell em to heel … feed em some bear treats as well … nothing to worry about ;)

    http://www.calgaryherald.com/travel/Grizzly+chases+mountaineer+tree/5469374/story.html

    One of North America's top mountaineers was stalked by a grizzly bear for about 300 metres and chased up a tree as he guided a client near Lake Louise in Banff National Park.

    In what he described as one of the scariest moments of his life, Canmore's Barry Blanchard said the grizzly bear climbed about 18 metres up the tree, where he and his client were clinging to nimble branches 25 metres up for well over an hour.

    "A bear coming at you is way more scary than an avalanche, thunderstorms, crevasses," said Blanchard, who is a top alpinist noted for pushing the standards of highly technical, high-risk alpine climbing in the Canadian Rockies and the Himalayas.

    #1820619
    Mike W
    BPL Member

    @skopeo

    Locale: British Columbia

    #1820623
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    "I don't think our BC bears are special, they are just bears."

    The statistics for B.C. seem pretty serious.

    However, the statistics for California would show that black bears are just fuzzy wuzzies. The national park rangers in California do not recommend the use of bear spray. It just isn't worth the effort.

    –B.G.–

    #1820624
    Travis Leanna
    BPL Member

    @t-l

    Locale: Wisconsin
    #1820626
    Bruce Nelson
    BPL Member

    @buck3m

    "Check out the stats below (the injuries) and you decide if Black Bears are dangerous enough to warrant carrying spray."

    I checked the stats. It doesn't warrant carrying spray for black bears to me. 88 total people injured in BC in 18 years? About 5 a year. Roughly 50,000 people were victims of violent crime involving injuries in B.C per year in that period.

    "Ninety percent of all known black bear attacks have only resulted in minor injuries"
    http://ext.nrs.wsu.edu/publications/Blackbears1.htm That would mean nearly all the injuries listed in that chart would be minor.

    To make sense of the risk from bears we need to compare them to other risks that we understand better.

    #1820631
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    relatively few people are killed by avalaches every year whether in BC or in other parts of north america …

    yet skiers and snowmobilers spend alot of money and time in preparation for the possible event … much more weight and money and training than bear protection in bear country …

    one can argue that all such training and resources devoted aint worth it … because more people die driving their car …

    however one tends not to have an accurate measurement of those at risk, especially for bear attacks … you really dont know the number of people going into the backcountry high risk areas, whether for bears or avalanches … so you dont really know the true % of accidents or fatalities as a ratio of those at risk

    i dont think anyone here would suggest that people going into avalanche risk areas or conditions should neglect avy training or equipment … yet some suggest one should do the same for risk for certain wildlife in regions where there are known deaths and injuries from such

    as an example,i have not fallen off an easy climb in years, nor most experienced climbers i know … yet i still use a rope … why? … because while the risk is quite low (low enough for some people here to solo), the consequences are quite high

    insurance is rarely used and never worth it … until you need it …

    #1820643
    CW
    BPL Member

    @simplespirit

    Locale: .

    My favorite thing about statistics is that they can say anything you want. Exclude this, include that….they mean very little with out all of the minute detail and specifics of the study, and even then they're still questionable. :-)

    #1820664
    Jim Colten
    BPL Member

    @jcolten

    Locale: MN

    My favorite thing about statistics is that they can say anything you want.

    Don't get me started about statistics, PLEASE.

    But here's one I heard from the skipper of the boat that took us up Tracey Arm in 2001, perhaps Bruce or David can support or debunk it? … "More Alaskans are killed annually by moose than bears."

    #1820667
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    "My favorite thing about statistics is that they can say anything you want."

    Yes, but this example shows how you can figure it out

    Better than just making stuff up

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