My Paleo

john: ? ? ?

I’m not sure where you’re getting your ideas from. I claimed that rice consumption has increased? In regards to what, John? Yes, rice consumption has increased, as has consumption of everything else, including meat and fish. The Japanese are among the world’s biggest consumers today. Surely you already know that, John.

Your suggestion to use your link as a support for whatever you’re trying to say is also a complete misinterpretation of the explanation you find within the link: Many studies report on the Westernization of the Japanese diet: less calorie intake comes from rice and more from animal meat, and the fat content of food has increased. : What this statement says is that less calorie intake comes from rice, and more from animal meat. Since the Japanese consume twice as many calories as they did 200 years ago this simply means that they didn’t increase the amount of rice they eat to meet this caloric budget, but increased their consumption of meat (which Japanese barely at all prior to the 1800’s) and, something the statement completely fails to mention, consumption of bread, which skyrocketed in the 1970’s. They also consume far more milk and other dairy products. Prior to the ’70’s most Japanese were severely lactose intolerant (as even today most Asians are) so most of them could not handle drinking a lot of milk.

I don’t really need a link to show me how things are and have been over the last 43 in Japan since I’ve lived here all that time and have been watching things change over all that time. The Edo museum reference was, perhaps a little over the top, since most people can’t make it there, but the Kurosawa movie is not at all beyond the abilities of any reader here. If you want a link, here you go. You’ll excuse me if I don’t make any effort to translate any of it for you. Scroll down and you can see different average meal types according to rank and wealth in society. Even the rich were quite frugal. Try to figure out which ones are those of the rich, and which of the average person. And then tell me where all the scads of rice are. And these are not American portions either. Those bigger bowls are about the width of your fist. And a lot of the fish shown (saurie) are about the size of a man’s index finger.

Then again, we could dispose with links altogether, and you are cordially invited to come to Japan and visit the Edo Museum with me.

P.S. The Edo Period is officially between the years 1603 to 1868. The Meiji Period, which started in 1868 is generally considered the period of modernization of Japan, when western values and goods began to be heavily pushed within Japanese culture by the Japanese themselves. They even changed their clothing during this period, moving from traditional kimonos to western trousers/ skirts and shirts. This is also the period during which great changes in diet began.

By the way, my offering the link further up in the thread was not for any advocacy of paleo, but simply some information for anyone already attempting paleo.

Miguel,

The point of my photo is that Paleo talks about lean, healthy bodies and it speaks of reduction in disease… yet that statue (art was often a representation of what culture found healthy or desirable) shows obesity.

My thoughts on Paleo come from reading the resources you have sent me, talking to my nutritionist recently (at length) and a little extra medical journal reading I did last weekend. My nutritionist is very open-minded and also does quite a bit of research. Some of her comments were surrounding the body/genetic differences between a modern person and a Paleolithic man.

And yes… keep in mind I am looking at this from a weight loss perspective (as per the original posts), the perspective of a diabetic, the perspective of an athlete in training, and the view of overall/long-term, sustainable health.

What medically supported information I could find covered both sides of the debate, however there wasn’t much that supported this for the long term (at least not that I found in my search). Most of what I found supporting Paleo was blog-based and anecdotal.

And… as I said earlier… I see the effects of what I eat about 8 times a day when I test my blood. I see it in how my digestive system functions and repeated hbA1C backs that up. Overall health backs that up… especially when I see the rest of my family dying of heart disease at young ages (the most recent was my brother at age 56). Having extensive heart tests in February backs this up too. It seems what I am doing is right for my body. There is also evidence to support that Paleo-type diets are not good for vascular health… here is one of the many journals I read over the weekend.

Vascular effects of a low-carb, high-protein diet or in plainer English…

Low Carb, High-Protein, Diet Blues

You could convince me to be vegan or vegetarian but not Paleo… not until more long-term and medically conclusive research has been done. My health is too important to mess around with… and I’ve watched to many loved-ones die from heart disease related to diet and activity.

Edited to add…. this one was interesting (and personally relevant to me)

Low-Fat versus Low-Carbohydrate Weight Reduction Diets: Effects on Weight Loss, Insulin Resistance and Cardiovascular Risk A Randomised Control Trial “The change in overall systemic arterial stiffness, was, however, significantly different between diets (P=0.04); this reflected a significant decrease in augmentation index following the low-fat diet, compared to a non-significant increase within the low-carbohydrate group.”

Actually Miguel, you wrote:

Hell, even the variety of food Japanese ate when I was a child changed dramatically over the last 40 years as western eating habits took over Japan… and the sudden and heretofore completely alien to Japanese culture, obesity epidemic. Japanese ate rice before that, but never in large amounts, because it was for centuries a luxury (even when I was a boy in Japan few people could afford to regularly eat sushi). The Japanese diet consisted mainly of a huge variety of vegetables and fish, with rice as a small aside and much needed carbohydrate source

As my second link shows, per capita rice consumption has actually fallen by about half, from almost 120 kg/year in 1962 to a little over 60 kg/year in the year 2000.

Miguel I do thank you for your invitation though, I would like to hike the mountains of Japan one day.

I acknowledge both your thoughts, Laurie, and yours, John. I'd be remiss to make my comments about being open minded if I didn't make the attempt to be open minded myself.

Laurie, do please remember that I, too, am a diabetic, as you well know, and have exactly the same fears and concerns as you do. So I don't enter my decision to give paleo a go lightly, especially as a Type 1. I'm not doing this on a whim as many others here might be doing… my very life depends on me getting this right, just like you. And it's not just a distant future fear, either. If I don't do this right I could quite easily die from mistakes tomorrow. The possibility of death for me, and you, are a very likely, daily reality.

I understand entirely Miguel. I think we have to respect that you and I will never agree on the topic and each of us has to do what is best for the type of diabetes that we have. My concern is that with diabetics being at 6 times greater risk for cardiovascular disease, is this really the right diet… do the short-term benefits outweigh the long-term risks? No need to answer that – my point is that is what is in the back of my mind when I research such lifestyle changes.

Each person has to evaluate risks for themselves. In my case, the added familial history of early death from premature coronary artery disease, makes that answer pretty clear for me…. Paleo is far too risky in my case.

This is where we shake hands and agree to disagree. Certainly makes for some good discussion though.

Miguel, I do have sympathy for the paleo idea, especially in the basic form that "we should eat the diet we are evolved for." I think we are evolved for a more general diet than the strictest paleo practitioners believe, which might look like more disagreement than it actually is.

The safest thing IMO is to look for overlap between peleo and nutrition science, rather than to see them in opposition.

I'm going to have a physical (blood work, etc.) Friday and will report back results. My personal weight loss/fitness journey has involved a lot of lifestyle changes over the years, and since I previously worked at a hospital I had blood work done annually. I've been (mostly) paleo/primal for the past several months so I'm curious to see what my cholesterol looks like with the increase in fat and decrease in carbs.

FWIW, I'm not diabetic but do have direct relatives that are or have been.

It would be nice to know that there is no long-term detrimental effect on cholesterol, lipids and all that.

On a side note… with diabetes in your family it is really good that you have made lifestyle/weight changes. It goes a long way.

yeah, I'm very curious to see how things look. IIRC, last year I had a total cholesterol a bit over 100, LDL was good, and HDL was a bit low (always has been). The year prior I was mostly low carb and low fat while doing P90X and I had a total cholesterol under 100, which is not good but likely still better than being really high.

Sending you a private note, Chris.

Laurie, I base my trust in paleo and a lot of my understanding of how it works for diabetics on the information and lifestyle of Dr. Richard Bernstein, who is a Type 1 diabetic and has been on the paleo diet for more than 40 years. He's in great health and knows the intricacies of the physiological problems of diabetes far better than most. This lecture he gives is just one of many sources he has put out there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VaNJO7KMgg

Also Dr. Andrew Weil, the prominent and popular advocator of vegetarian diets has recently embraced the idea that the research about fat has been wrong… a glaring and complete about face. For good reasons, I think. I agree with what he says in the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQGRJqGQTs

(For what it's worth, I don't do most of my research or base my understanding solely on such videos. Mostly I read a lot of books and science reports. But I thought the videos would be the most accessible in a discussion such as this. Maybe they will influence those who watch them to go out and do more research on their own.)

Saturated fat in the diet will increase your HDL.

Saturated fat will help lower your Tryglicerides and that's all that really matters. But is more important to avoid foods that increase it. HDL, LDL naturally fluctuate and vary from person to person.

MD office just called and gave me my cholesterol results.

Total = 164
HDL = 51 (up a good bit and now at a more healthy level)
LDL = 101 (barely over optimal and still plenty good)
Triglycerides = 61

Glucose = 99 (no food for 14-15 hours but I did have a big carbish dinner)

They also did a Metabolic Panel (14 tests) that I didn't get specifics on since they said it was all normal.

Those are excellent numbers. Do you have past numbers to compare to? That's always the most interesting story in my opinion. Also, you should ask for you complete panel results. You can tell a ton from all those little tests with the right interpretation and "normal" can have a huge range. Vitamin D would be particularly interesting – especially this time of year. BTW – your LDL is just fine. Did they do a particle size test? 101 on a paleo diet is pretty amazing and almost certainly the happy kind of LDL.

Good stuff!

Some of last years numbers (off memory) are a few posts up but my total cholesterol is now higher, ldl is higher, hdl is higher, and I believe triglycerides are around the same. I was on more of a standard diet last year.

Vitamin D wasn't in the test panel but I did get all of the results. The additional tests done were a Complete Blood Count with Differential/Platelet and a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel. You can google them if you want to see what they include and are interested in specific results. I honestly don't know what most of it means other than I'm mostly within the reference intervals. Outliers were my white blood cell count (3.9 with a ref int of 4-10.5) and LDL (101 with a ref int of 0-99).

Congratulations Chris. I have always been unsure what the term "paleo" means but all you guys got me curious and I'm starting to get an idea. I've been listening to the "Healthy Mind, Fit Body" podcast which has a very paleo take on health. I have been a not-so-strict vegetarian (small portion of chicken or fish few times a week) but have focused recently on eating raw foods, reducing bread, and avoiding processed foods. A typical lunch is an apple and a couple handfuls of walnuts or vege pizza. Cooking eggs for breakfast is not really practical for me, so I've been unsure what to do about breakfast. Usually a banana and an orange and some Probar.
Good new doc is "Hungry for Change"
http://www.hungryforchange.tv/

James, a suggestion for your morning eggs. Once a week hardboil a dozen eggs and put them back in the fridge. Saves time and energy. Just grab a couple in the morning and you're good to go.

Jess

"Cooking eggs for breakfast is not really practical for me, so I've been unsure what to do about breakfast. "

If you mean cooking each morning, that's easily solvable. There's a delightful cookbook called "Paleo Comfort Foods" which includes a recipe for crustless quiche. What's great about the recipe is that it's very easy to change it up – use different vegetables and different meats – so that it doesn't get boring.

Sunday afternoons/evenings are my set aside cooking time. I cook a quiche, which gives me enough for breakfast for the week (including weekend), and make some other meal for lunches (bison chili, cabbage and sausage stew, shrimp scramble, salmon stew, etc.). So one afternoon of cooking gives me my meals for the week. If it's a crappy day out I'll spend a bit more time cooking and cook two different lunch meals, freezing half of each for the following week.

Works very well for me.

@Doug – I eat really well. I'm lucky to have great food sources in the Northwest and a spouse that is a fantastic cook, but dang, Doug – your meals sound amazing! Care to share a couple recipes? In particular, the bison chili and cabbage and sausage stew?

Please don't feed the idester (compliments). It may make him that much harder to live with.

"a recipe for crustless quiche"

Real Men don't.

I love to see people get their life back. I own a clinic that does this very thing. It's truly amazing what the body can do when given the right tools. The Paleo diets a pretty good one as are several others. Humans can do quite well on a wide range of foods. Anyone care to guess what is the only scientifically proven diet that increases life expectancy in all mammals(that they have tested)?
Just a tip, anyone getting their blood lipids tested needs to get their inflammatory markers tested as well(homocystiene,c-reactive protein). Cardiovascular disease is all inflammation. Much more important than testing cholesterol. You can have a cholesterol level of 400 but if you don't have inflammation it doesn't matter. Conversely if you have inflammation your cholesterol can be 125 and you can keel over from a heart attack. That's why 50% of people who have heart attacks have normal cholesterol. There are no drugs that lower these inflammatory markers so your doc is very unlikely to test them.
Just remember to eat those healthy fats. One of the most important things you can do and never go on a low fat diet. Very bad for you.
Best wishes and great job.
DrH