My Paleo

IMO, education or lack there of. It's commonly known that we (speaking generally) underestimate the caloric content of food.

A really big problem is chain restaurants.

Ex.

You go to O'Charleys and get the Pecan Chicken Tender Salad. You're thinking, "hey, it's a salad, it MUST be healthy". Yeah, if 1020 cals BEFORE any dressing is considered low calorie these days. A Big Mac and order of medium fries from McDonald's would save you 100 cals.

Another problem is overestimating the caloric expenditure of exercise.

Say I'm a 180 lb man. If I walk (20 min miles or 3mph) for an hour, I will burn (roughly) 300 cals. Look….I just burned off (almost) 1/3 of lunch. But wait, I forgot that I would've burned 100 (roughly) cals sitting my (lazy) rear on the sofa watching reruns, so I only really burned 200 cals (as a result of the walk vs sitting).

Douglas… if you can get your hands on a Lindt Dark Blackcurrant bar or a Lindt Dark Chili Pepper bar… I'm telling you, heavenly. I'd mail you a couple but to be honest I don't know if they'd get past Bryan to the postman… lol.

"Another problem is overestimating the caloric expenditure of exercise."

Indeed. From a time perspective, exercise can be pretty inefficient for losing weight. Cutting back calories is easier. I know not for some, but even for those people it would be easier than exercising!

Brian, I think it is advertising of fast, convenient foods combined with early poor eating habits among children spinkled with a lot of extremely busy lives. Easy is easy and there is nothing more easy than grabbing the kids and heading to the drive thru.

I forgot about the dreaded slowing metabolism as one ages. It really sucks.

I do think that more people should strength train – it adds muscle and increases the baseline metabolic rate so that one can burn more calories while posting to BPL.

"IMO, education or lack there of. It's commonly known that we (speaking generally) underestimate the caloric content of food."

Surely you don't believe that the obesity epidemic is caused by a sudden lack of calorie counting by the population starting in the 1970's?

Posting the nutrition info and calorie counts on food was a response to the obesity epidemic. Its completely new and novel that any of us know how many calories are in anything. That was very specialized knowledge not too long ago.
Yet, obesity was uncommon before nutrition labels or any labels of any kind.

BUT, in the 1970's we saw the introduction of canola oil and high fructose corn syrup ( " HFCS was rapidly introduced to many processed foods and soft drinks in the U.S. from about 1975 to 1985". from Wiki ) .Corn oil, soy oil, and a laundry list of chemicals where suddenly added to the food supply. Also, under the Nixon admin. small family farms where replaced with large monopoly's who use industrial farming techniques, GMO crops, and large scale chemical use. Our grocers went from selling local fresh vegetables and meats to large warehouses that sell every conceivable combination of industrial oils and subsidized corn/wheat/soy/sugars in bright colored packaging full of printed marketing copy and cartoons.
Instead of educating people on avoiding these harmful "food stuffs" to improve health and reverse disease society says " eat them in moderation" or "count your calories".

You don't need to count calories when your metabolism is working properly because you are eating real food. Your body will tell you when it is full (satiation) and you will feel the desire to be active when you need to burn off calories.
Obesity is when your metabolism doesn't work properly. It is caused by eating harmful damaging processed food. THAT is what causes some one to take in more calories than they expend!!
If you don't get satiated you will over eat. If your body hordes calories you will not have energy and feel tired.
These are the symptoms of obesity! Their metabolism is broken. They are beyond calorie counting. Cut their calories and the body will preserve calories by making them tired and inactive not to mention HUNGRY as all hell.
this is why calorie restriction is a failure in the long run. It is not addressing the problem.
end of rant. Yes Im bored…

That's all good info Bryan, but my personal experience with significant weight gain and subsequent significant loss disagrees. I was at 5'8 and 210 lbs and lost ~40 lbs solely by cutting calories. I didn't significantly change my diet to one of a more whole and overall healthy makeup until I had already lost 50 lbs. Even still, I indulge in "bad" food, just less frequently. Yet, somehow, I maintain a lean build and a (measured) 6-7% bodyfat and have been there for going on 2 years now. I have enough experience with food and fitness to know what works.

Cut their calories and the body will preserve calories by making them tired and inactive not to mention HUNGRY as all hell.

That's a gross overstatement. If you cut calories too far, beyond what's minimally required, then yes, your body will go in to starvation mode.

At my worst, I estimate I was eating 5000 cals a day and completely inactive. I dropped to 2000 cals a day when I made up my mind to lose weight. Was I hungry? Sure, for maybe a week until my body adjusted. I did not gain weight, my body didn't preserve calories, and I didn't feel tired.

Me @ 200+

Me @ 175ish after nothing but cutting calories

Me these days after adding back in some exercise

this is why calorie restriction is a failure in the long run. It is not addressing the problem.
end of rant. Yes Im bored…

Brian, I think you shouldn't apologize for getting serious about this issue. Obesity around the world, but most especially in the States, is an extremely serious problem in the world today, something our species has never faced before. The accepted mantra is that people are eating more now than they ever have before. While this is probably partly true, there is a limit to how much people can eat, and I don't think people today eat that much more than people in the past, before the obesity epidemic. Something has changed in the food… as you say, in the modern processing of food. The amount of sugar (high fructose corn syrup, sucrose, and other carbs, especially wheat) that has become part of our daily diet is astounding, but a lot of it isn't obvious, until you actually take the time to examine the labels as you go shopping. When you go primal or paleo or low-carb suddenly you're faced with this invisible onslaught, and many people are shocked by what we take for granted. Go to any convenience store and see how many items that contain no or very little (less than 7 g of carbs per 100 g portion) carbs you can get. Here in Japan there is almost no food available to me when I rely on the convenience stores or fast food stores. It can be pretty distressing when you're hungry!

At my worst, I estimate I was eating 5000 cals a day and completely inactive. I dropped to 2000 cals a day when I made up my mind to lose weight. Was I hungry? Sure, for maybe a week until my body adjusted. I did not gain weight, my body didn't preserve calories, and I didn't feel tired.

Hold on, Chris, Brian was referring to obese people, not people with "healthy metabolisms". Obese people definitely have a problem with satiety. That's why they're obese! One method used by bariatric physicians is to staple the stomach shut into a smaller volume so that the patient doesn't feel so hungry all the time. I don't think your analogy fits with the discussion because obviously your system is working fine. You're not obese, and I take it you never have been (I'm assuming that "overweight" is not the same as "obese").

edit: Perhaps I should take this statement back, now that you've added the photos. Hmm. Something to learn here.

I agree what we eat today is far more processed than what previous generations ate. I don't agree they necessarily ate less carbs or even less sugar. I have quite a few Native American/American Indian recipes that significantly predate refined sugar. However, they do call for a healthy dose of honey.

The equation isn't entirely about food. As a species, we're also significantly less active than our more agricultural ancestors.

Edit: I was definitely qualified to be "obese". Probably morbidly by modern standards. Depression, inactivity, and heavily overeating and I was almost twice the person I am today. :-)

I will add that these days I'm 99% vegetarian and have found that my digestive system is much happier than when I consistently ate meat. I had a lot of problems with infrequent BMs and intestinal pains. I still eat eggs, fish, and dairy (mostly just cheese and butter) so that narrows my personal issue down to land animal flesh. It could be one specific type of meat, or it could be meat in general…I can't say on that. The reality is, we are all different and don't process everything the same.

I was also 210 and went down 162 when I leaned out for sports. I lost all that weight in one summer and fall – I did not count a single calorie.

"That's a gross overstatement. If you cut calories too far, beyond what's minimally required, then yes, your body will go in to starvation mode."

How so? Rats are known to shrink their organs to preserve their fat when their hormones are messed with. Obese people are known to have low energy and to not know when to stop eating. In our barbaric times some people chalk it up to being lazy and a glutton.
But they are confusing the symptoms with the cause.

I bet that if you look at what you eat you probably eat mostly whole foods. I never said you had to be "perfect" you certainly can eat garbage every once in a while but you can not base your diet on it!

However, they do call for a healthy dose of honey.

Have you ever tried to go out and look for wild honeybee hives? It is an extremely difficult task. There are not many hives around, and certainly not enough to regularly feed a family of Native Americans. I'm certain that the recipes that you have are modern iterations of the traditional dishes after honey became an easy-to-obtain item. Before that honey was most definitely a rare and treasured treat.

I haven't gone hunting for bees, but I have seen quite a few honeybee hives in the woods around here.

I bet that if you look at what you eat you probably eat mostly whole foods.

Today, yes, 100% true. But that came AFTER I got to where I'm at.

"I don't agree they necessarily ate less carbs or even less sugar."

I am not necessarily a low carb advocate for relatively healthy people. The important thing is that your carbs are from things like potatoes, parsnips, carrots, even some rice ect. and not bread and sugar.
People with obesity and diabetes on the other hand should seriously consider a low carb diet -at least for a while.
I eat lots of carbs from root vegetables and rice myself.

I pay no attention to how many carbs I eat, but I'd guess it's around 70% of my daily intake. That comes from fruit, veggies, oats, rice, pasta, bread, even cereal.

Sorry to be so insistent, Chris. I don't want to come across as argumentative for arguments sake. However, as someone particularly well-versed in insects (I nearly became an entomologist when I was at university), I have to question whether you saw honeybees or some other kinds of bees. They are not very common and hard to find. There are lots of other kinds of bees that resemble honeybees, but none of them make honey. It is difficult even for professional beekeepers to find hives without satellite equipment, and then there is the whole problem of how to get to the nests without getting badly stung. In parts of Indonesia there are even specialized groups of honeybee catchers who specialize in getting to the nests, simply because most other people cannot easily get to them themselves without fear of potentially lethal consequences. Honey was considered more precious than gold in some societies simply because of how difficult it was to obtain. (and because of its preservative properties… did you know that honey is the only unprocessed food that can keep for literally hundreds of years without spoiling?)

"In parts of Indonesia there are even specialized groups of honeybee catchers who specialize in getting to the nests, simply because most other people cannot easily get to them themselves without fear of potentially lethal consequences."

It's the same in Nepal and Bengal. In both places, the honey gatherers take death defying risks in pursuit of wild honey. In Nepal is typically involves scaling cliffs with hand made ropes, carrying a smoke pot and a container for the honey. A slip means almost certain death. In Bengal, they go deep into mangrove swamps where tiger attacks are an ever present danger. And then there is the small matter of pi$$ed off bees in both cases. I'll bet there are wild honey gatherers everywhere you find seriously wild, warm, well vegetated environments. The stuff is universally treasured, and deservedly so.

"Salmon for breakfast. That's the most disgusting thing I've ever heard of. I think I'd rather lick an ashtray!"

Can I have your salmon? ;=)

Brian – I wasn't referring to drastically cutting calories to put your body into distress, but the vast majority of people eat far more calories than they need. Cutting back gradually is the key to success.

I too feel much better when I limit by protein but I may not be the norm.

Chris – incredible story. Congrats.

"Me these days after adding back in some exercise"

I hope Lynn Tramper is lurking nearby. Lynn, calling Lynn…. ;0)

Seriously though, very impressive, Chris. Living proof that, for all but those with a true metabolic disease, it boils down to a combination of calorie reduction AND exercise. The more, the better in the case of exercise. Up to a point, naturally.

I think. although please correct me if I am wrong, that Chris used strength training / resistance training as his primary exercise. If so, that would concur with my earlier comment about resting metabolic rate. More muscle burns more fat.

"I think. although please correct me if I am wrong, that Chris used strength training / resistance training as his primary exercise. If so, that would concur with my earlier comment about resting metabolic rate. More muscle burns more fat."

That is one way to go about it, David, but by no means the only way. From personal experience I can tell you that serious distance running will do the trick nicely, as will spear fishing or any other strenuous activity where you are immersed in water, e.g. competitive swimming, water polo, etc. There are countless other activities that would also achieve the same result.

In both of the above activities I participated in, it was not only me but everybody around me who was lean, due to the high caloric requirement.

Many roads lead to Rome, methinks.

Tom, what happened to Lynn, anyway? Haven't seen her for ages!

Oh, and Chris, I forgot to say that for me, too, your final image was very impressive! It's inspirational, actually! Is that what px90 did for you? Crossfit?

"Tom, what happened to Lynn, anyway? Haven't seen her for ages!"

I don't know, Miguel. I know the earthquake tragedies hit her pretty hard, and her presence faded shortly thereafter. My above post was intended in part to see if I could get a response out of her. I miss her.

Yeah, I miss her, too. I also miss PJ and Bill Fornshell, and quite a few others, too.

Lynn would definitely be able to add a lot of knowledge to this discussion!

"I also miss PJ and Bill Fornshell, and quite a few others, too."

I know what you mean. Bill F. was posting on the Members Only forum a couple weeks ago, so he's still around, if not regularly. PJ, I think, is gone for good. He was having some serious health issues during the last few months he posted regularly and then, nothing for several years now. I hope for the best, but fear the worst.

"Lynn would definitely be able to add a lot of knowledge to this discussion!"

Indeed, on this and many others.

"Brian – I wasn't referring to drastically cutting calories to put your body into distress, but the vast majority of people eat far more calories than they need. Cutting back gradually is the key to success."

Im not really arguing that what you say is wrong in theory. We know that overweight people eat more calories than they expend. What Im trying to say is " how is that helpful on a practical level?" Its not the complete picture.
Why do some people eat more than they need? I maintain its not because they don't count calories.
It is the harmful foods they eat that mess up their leptin/hormone response to food. The brain controls hormones,controls your hunger and satiety. It controls whats called your "body fat set-point" . I other words, it controls calories in/ calories out naturally and unconsciously.
I know some people believe that they lost weight by counting calories. I have to disagree. Its impractical. I will contend that in their effort to eat less calories they eat less processed food and less sugar in general. In other words they loss weight by eating a better quality diet- that is also lower in calories. You can not separate the two. More importantly it gives the body what it needs and the metabolism begins to heal.
This sets off a snowball effect:
-the body/fat/setpoint is lowered to healthy levels
-hormones are in balance again and hunger/satiety goes to normal levels.
-energy goes up- people exercise more and more and enjoy it more and more.
-the increase in nutrition has positive effects on every aspect of health including mood and ATTITUDE.
Success is certain.