Grand Canyon- Double Crossing aka “Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim”- BPL Group Run

I don't have a clue on where to rate myself, I guess that pretty much leaves the 10 out :) I'm pretty sure I'm only going as far as Roaring Springs (and back obviously) ~ 32 miles; too many set backs and starting my running from scratch simply didn't give me enough time

I've done several DIAD hikes over rough mountainous country in the 30-ish mile range, so I'm confident I'll make it. I'm clearly in the best shape running wise that I've ever been, so that's a big plus. If for some reason I'm making really good time AND the angels are singing especially loud- I haven't ruled out the entire length, just would rather be realistic and 32 miles for this kid isn't too shabby :)

Dan- I had some small 3×5 ziplocks that were just about the right size for two scoops of Perpetuem- I've got seven of those packed into a quart ziplock. Hopefully TSA doesn't call DEA when they see this white powder wrapped in a ziplock :)

Thanks Mike. I've thought the same thing about the powder in the bags since we'll be passing through the border check point heading north out of the desert.

I will doing something a bit different for my Malto powder than the normal zipper bags. I will have three 32 oz. gatoraid bottles with 900 calories of powder each. This will be easier than pouring bags and will give me the water capacity for the return uphill if needed.

" I guess pacing them tight is a big thing and maybe rolling them up and putting a piece of tape around to hold them tight..?"

A small rubber band around each individual baggie works a lot better-easier to remove. You can use a larger rubber band to hold multiple baggies together.

Also, baggies are lighter than bottles but harder to pour from if you use the zip loc opening. An easier way, if you have a small pair of scissors like those on the Swiss Army Classic knife, is to unroll the baggie, tilt it so the powder moves up and to one side, then cut an ~1/2-3/4" diagonal piece from the empty bottom corner end of the baggie. Now you have a perfect hole to pour the powder from. It will flow easily and without spilling into your bottle. If you try to pour from the main opening, the powder gets hung up on the zip loc ridge and tends to spill out to both sides. Try it both ways and I think you will see what I mean.

Best of luck to all you guys and gal. That is one challenging run.

for packing my powders (perpetuem) I go with a sandwich sized ziplock rolled fairly tight, then placed inside another sandwich sized ziplock. don't need rubber bands, and I prefer this over putting them all in one large ziplock, just a personal preference.

Mike
do you have a time limit for your run? that would be the determining factor for a turnaround assuming you are healthy.
I'd give about 1 hour longer for the return than for the outbound.
John V. and I will be doing the 47 mile version and we expect to be out there from 14-15.5 hours depending.

The multihour malto solution that you've worked up Greg is clever. Do you plan 4 hours or so per bottle?

I can't wait to pick your head a bit on fueling, sounds like you have this stuff down to a science.

I will be doing 300 calories per hour so each bottle is 3 hours.

Art- time is definitely a factor, w/ fatigue weighing in as well- I also plan on trying to take a lot of pics, along w/ a few sit downs :) only going but what I've read, but I think I can make Roaring Springs pretty safely in ~ 5 hours- I should have a pretty good idea at that point both time wise and energy wise whether to push it up NK- looks like we have about 14 hours of daylight to work w/ add an hour or so depending on what time we leave

If I don't go to NK, I'll probably take in Ribbon Falls as a short side trip

Mike

ONLY FIVE MO' DAYZ!!!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA! Weeeeeeeee!!!

I am getting excited for you guys and gal!!
I look forward to the reports and accounts. I know pictures might be scarce but I encourage all of you to write about your experience when you get back, even if you think others covered it.
I can only imagine that there are some doubts and concerns, even with all the training. Like someone said, one foot in front if the other…I think I speak for many of us here when I say that we support you, wish you the best and we are proud of all the work you have done already. Let us know if there us anything we can do, including pitching in a few bucks for airfare, even though you already purchased tickets!

Looks like the weather forecast may have taken a turn for the worse.

Could be setting up for near perfect hypothermia weather.

1. bring proper clothing

2. bring plenty of food to keep the inner fires stoked, including maybe some emergency simple carbs.

3. consider not running alone, especially the last half.

Great.

Forecast I saw for Saturday is 47-21 degrees with rain which could potentially make the North Kaibab pretty dangerous if it's below freezing and getting icy.

Potential hypothermia weather is right. If you can't keep moving in conditions like this, things will be ugly.

as far as ice on the trail,
the final 1,500 ft (2 miles) up to NK trailhead is not exposed. but below that are some interesting drop offs.

N. Kaibab will be at noon, ice conditions are less likely there I would think. i would be more concerned with any late evening ascents on the S. kaibab or BA where it will get cold fast in the evening and potentially ice over. Microspikes make alot of sense to me.

Like a perfect storm.

That hotel or lodge is sounding kind of pleasant now. Who would have thought? Typically the problem is dealing with heat, not hypothermic conditions.

What additional items will you guys be packing?

This should be interesting. I'm really hoping the weather turns for the best.

my standard clothing for this :
knit hat, possibly my balaclava
light weight gloves
North Face Triumph pullover shell
ultra light rain pants (optional last minute decision)
Patagonia nano puff
Marmot mid weight under shirt (equal to Pat. Cap 3 but lighter weight)
light weight poly inner shirt (long sleeve)
Pat. cap 2 long johns (optional heavier pants if its windy)
shorts over pants
standard footwear, injinji socks, shoes

If these conditions hold I'll be additionally packing:
Montbell Thermawrap Jacket
ArcTeryx hardshell (forget which model, it's GTX Paclite, top and bottom)
Rain Mitts
Microspikes
Patagonia Cap 1 LS top and bottoms

Craig, good call on the glove shells, adding that. I'll be bringing what I need to pretty much mirror Art and Craig with the addition of three other items, a mylar bivy, a small pack towel, and a 9-hour candle. Call me chicken.

the thing about the mylar bivy is … I like to think I would make the smart decision and turn around early rather than try to gut it out and get myself into trouble.
but one never knows.

Art, i agree, I too hope to be smart enough to know when a bail out is necessary.

But for conditions like this i tend to include gear in case bailing out is not possible. Especially since in this case, bailing out means climbing back to 7000' with possible washed out, icy, exposed trail.

That's just me though.

I plan on taking my normal hiking/running setup, long hiking pants, shorts, LS Cap 1, wind shirt, gloves, visor, warm hat and down jacket. I may also take rain jacket and pants but I would likely sweat more in them than any precip would wet it out.

As far as microspikes, it would seem that the canyon rock is rather warm right now and that any snow that would be falling would be soft. Unless there is "soft ice" that microspikes could grip or consolidated and hard snow I can't see them helping.

I will take a bit of extra food.

Greg agree about the spikes.

and I tend to sweat a lot in a rain suit too, but for me its more to hold in warmth rather than keep me dry, sort of a travelling emergency bivy.

accuweather still showing cool (high 48), but they no longer show freezing rain- of course the show precip for Sun so that could easily be there on Sat

I'm bringing my tights, micropuff, OR Helium rain jacket-can't bring my spikes as I'm afraid TSA will snag them :( maybe I should bring my studded shoes ???

if it's simply cool and cloudy, we'll be golden- if it's raining, less golden :)

Getting alot out of this exchange, good stuff.

So do you guys think I should leave my skorts behind?

I've already had to nix my fishnet tanktop, not too happy about that.