Grand Canyon- Double Crossing aka “Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim”- BPL Group Run

Brian, glad you're joining us.

I'm leaning towards a 4am start, or shortly after. I would love to finish climbing up S. Kaibab with the sun still up on the horizon.

How about everyone else?

4am seems reasonable to me. I'll plan on that. I'm sure some will start earlier and some optimistic fast guys might start later:-)

B

I was going to sleep in until maybe 10. Actually 4am sounds good. Anybody given any thought to a target finish time or is the general thought just to wing it?

Editted to add: Well, if everyone else is doing 4 am, I'm game for that. Everyone obviously will have a light with them (right?!? for late night safety options if nothing else). We will have red-eyed into PHX Thursday/Friday night but maybe 2/3 of us can snooze on the drive up Friday.

From the site, http://www.sunrisesunset.com/USA/NationalParks/

for GCNP South Rim, April 14th:

Civil Twi: 5:30am
Sunrise: 5:57am
Sunset: 7:01pm
Civil Twi: 7:27pm
Moonrise: 2:10am
Moonset: 1:10pm

A day past (less than) last quarter of the moon.

Civil twilight (sun is 6 degrees below horison) is pretty conservative for hiking, IME. Nautical twilight (12 degrees) is pretty darn hikeable and that gives a window from 5 am to 8 pm without the need for headlamps. There'll be a "half" moon low to the SE and most of SK faces N and W, so counting on moon light to start at 4 am seems a little dodgy to me. And there will be NO evening moonlight.

For us hiker-runners (with an emphasis on the hiking) which I believe includes Alaskans Tony and me and Mike from Montana, I'm thinking we want to maximize our daylight for a 14-15-16 hour day. It would be a pity to miss sunrise by starting after 6 am. I'm thinking wake up at 5 am, SK trailhead at 5:30 am.

You guys (and gal) who can do it in 10 hours could sleep in and get your beauty rest. We'll say "hi" as you blast past us.

I've got my high-altitude training scheduled way too soon (backpacking with the kids at 8,000 feet on Haleakala, leaving tomorrow), so I'll be mostly off-line for 8 days.

I have this 12-13 hour finish time in my head, but I think it is a bit lofty for my first time and my current fitness, most likely I will have it handed to me and I will take what the canyon gives….so probably hell. ;-) Getting down and starting the initial ascent up N. Kaibab will likely come quickly, especially in the early hours when it is dark, its that return down and up where time is going to accumulate.

More or less I am "winging it" and going with the flow of the day and how my body feels. This is my first R2R2R so my number one goal is pleasure, gotta enjoy it, number two goal is to finish.

I like the 4am idea as it maximizes campfire time post run….which is a prime motivator for me:-)

I'll likely carry a headlamp/windshirt and stash it near Phantom Ranch. I did this last year with my headlamp and several layers that I wore early in the morning but wouldn't need until the afternoon/early evening. This plan worked out well and gave us a little bit of warmth/light for the segments where you're likely to need it.

BB

I'm leaning to a 5:00 am start for the following reason :
want to minimize darkness at the start because the start is downhill, we are fresh, and can run.
don't mind darkness at the end because I will be slow due to uphill and fatigue.
this strategy should yield an overall faster time, by my reasoning.

think my partners and I are leaning towards BA-NK-BA. should be a long day.

Brian: was that a R2R2R you did? You figure you don't need your outer layer on the North Rim at midday? Cause you're moving, tag the sign, and drop back to warmer temps below?

I did a (no-conditioning, 19-hour, no-running) R2R2R in late April once and, yeah, only needed shorts and tee shirt on the North Rim, but by 9 pm coming s-l-o-w-l-y up the SK, I wanted more clothes near the top.

Art: I see your point about more running downhill early than uphill running late. Especially with the gentler slope on the BA.

Is there is must-leave-by time vis-a-vis the evil burro trains? The uphill one I don't mind stepping aside for. It's any downhill ones that I want to be in front of.

Yeah, my girlfriend and I ran it last year in mid-April. I started out with a headlamp/windshell/beanie that I didn't need once we hit the river. She gets cold easily so she had a few layers that she didn't need once things warmed up. There's a nice ledge near the bridge that is out of sight and hard to climb to. We stashed a bit of stuff there with no trouble.

BB

Brian,

I hope you don't mind me asking, what was your time last year for the double? Did you both get after it or take it "easy"?

David : I went down BA 3 years ago at 5:00am and did not meet any mule trains, hit Phantom just before 7:30am

We cruised it! There was 3 of us(myself, Stephanie and out friend Tracie). It took us 16 hours car to car. That included a lengthy, shoes off lunch break at the North Rim as well as a lengthy stop at Phantom on the way back. Likely 2 hours of down time between those two rests alone.

The three of us all felt like we could have done more like 12 hours if we were in a hurry. The Rae Lakes Loop took Joshua and I a little over 11 hours this past fall…..I'd be really happy to do something similar on the R2R2R but I'm not too attached to going fast. If the scene at the North Rim begs relaxation…..I'll happily lay in the pines for awhile:-)

Mules on BA roll out by 0730-0800, so youll have em beat if yer leavin at 0500 or so. For SK, the pack mules come UP at that time, so, again, no prob there, theyre going up while we'll be going down.

Im taking Kaibab the whole way. BA'a my summer trail. :)

torrey
on the BA do the mules start up at 7:30, down at 7:30, or both ?

Awesome Brian! You guys are strong.

Btw, did you make it to the iditarod invitational afterall? If so, how was the experience? I'm sure we'll all pick at you about it in April when we meet up.

@ Art, they, the mules, go DOWN BA at that time. :)

post deleted.

Thanks to all of you for the huge support, Feeling the love right now!

For those interested…

Injury training plan week 1. Goal is to maintain conditioning only. 1-2hr daily workout followed by slow 20 minute run. Foam roller on the ITB before each run. Week 2 bring build back up to a 1hour run with cross training every other day maybe.

Mon..1:00 underwater running, :10 run
Tues…1:20 cycling, :20 core, :20 run
We'd…1:20 underwater running, :20 run

Welp, after both running 25 miles last weekend with 5,500 ft of gain AND booking Mather site #159, I'm officially joining the festivities at the South Rim. I'll be bringing my family; consisting of my Girlfriend, her 4 yr old son, and our 3 month old daughter. The daughter and son are both very chill, and can always wander away with Tanya if need be. If anyone has any reservations about bringing kids near the camping area, please feel free to say so and we can either move to another site and/or put the kids up for adoption (I kid!).

Either way, the stoke is high for this run.

My gear will surely be simple:

-UD wasp with 64 oz bladder
-20 oz handheld (homemade bike tube variety)
-synthetic souvenir race tee
-Headsweats visor
-Optic Nerve sunglasses
-arm warmers
-Golite Wisp windshirt
-running shorts from target (w/ MYOG outer pockets for salt)
-Drymax Hyperlite socks
-Some sort of La Sportiva shoe (testing out Vertical K's this weekend)

I plan to primarily fuel by rocking Mike Clelland goo's, supplemented with some fig newtons and chips. Water all the way with Succeed! caps for electrolytes, and surely lemonade at Phantom Ranch as a treat.

I may also bring an mp3 player to rock some heavy metal and/or hip-hop on that final climb if and when I hit a serious wall…

good deal, this going to be fun!

Eric – I think we're in the site next to yours.
we'll try not to keep the kids awake with our all night partying the night before the run.

Eric,

So what you're saying is I should plan on leaving the Colt 45 and NWA album in the car.

Ok. ;-)

I'm glad both you and your family are coming, looking forward to meeting everyone. Your list looks really good, simple. Save a few Newtons for me will ya?

Eugene-

I made it back from the ITI! It was a great trip and experience although the race itself didn't go quite as planned.

I went up there for 2 different races….the ITI and the Susitna 100. I entered the bike category in both. The Susitna was absolutely incredible in all respects: perfect weather, great trail conditions, good company and my legs felt great.

The ITI was a complete fiasco. It snowed 3 feet in the 48 hours before the event. We had no trail to follow and were in knee to thigh deep snow basically from the start line. I walked my bike to Yentna(70 miles into the race) and it took almost 48 hours to get that far. At that point a few of us did the math and decided that we didn't really want to walk next to our bikes for the next 6 days. We wound up taking a very scenic flight out with a local pilot.

Soo…..long story short….a fantastic, memorable experience but not the best race.

Looking forward to meeting ya'll soon. I'm sure a group like this will have more than enough stories to occupy many a campfire hour.

Eric, we're all family people, no problem at all. But they have to run the canyon with us! ;)

Heck, my wife has played with the idea of showing up with my kids. My brother who's a road biker has told me he's going to be there to watch me crawl out of the canyon and cheer me on. We'll see, i may tell them to stay home if my legs dont show up soon.

Totally impressed by Brian's adventures and misadventures.