Best knot for Triptease line?

[EndoftheTrail]

Got to say… I'm with DaveT on this one.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Hobbes

> but are willing to head out during a winter storm?
OK, good point, except!
In our country at least, we can have fine sunny weather in the morning and a howling storm an hour later. Yes, it can change inside of one hour. You can NOT predict the weather here in the mountains. I would imagine that happens in other places as well.

What that means is that our gear has to be able to handle the very bad conditions even if we are going out in very fine weather with a reasonable forecast. Knowing that this can happen and allowing for it is part of the 'base-line prerequisite of knowledge & judgment' which you rightly mention.

Are taut-line hitches part of the base-line? Well … maybe not. I know many people simply have a solid loop at the end of their guy rope and they move the stake to adjust the tension. Done that myself plenty of times too.

Knowing how to use map and compass? Oh yes, you are dead right there! That is a base-line requirement in my book.

Cheers

[Bob Gross]

"You can NOT predict the weather here in the mountains."

Don't you have a government weather service that does predictions?

Around here, I can get 10-day predictions with some moderate accuracy.

–B.G.–

[Dale Wambaugh]

………

[James DeMonaco]

lol @ weather predictions.

I went hiking in the northern sierras and the rangers station checked the weather for me, said it was going to be beautiful (around mid 20's at night) and perhaps a light mist.

I got up about 3/4 of the way up to our destination and we were hit by snow. We decided to make camp there for the night and it got down to 6 degrees, and threw powder/water on us all night. Oh, did I mention the HURRICANE FORCE WINDS? For some reason a storm just kind of appeared, snapped one of my buddies DAC tent poles, haha.

Unexpected weather, but it was still a very fun trip :)

[Dale Wambaugh]

"'You can NOT predict the weather here in the mountains.'

Don't you have a government weather service that does predictions?

Around here, I can get 10-day predictions with some moderate accuracy.

–B.G.–"

Not if your life depends on it. Consider the National Weather Service reports for Washington State: Seattle weather accuracy was about 75% last year; move up to Nooksack, at the base of Mount Baker and you get 67%; Forks (West Olympics at sea level) 70%; Deer Park (North Olympics) 65%; East Wenatchee (east end of Stevens Pass) 48% !!!

(see http://www.forecastadvisor.com/browse/)

The Olympics and Cascades are highly effected by jet stream shifts and there are significant rain shadow and convergence zones. SIngle day snowfall can vary by FEET in a 50 mile area, as can storm tracks and wind force.

Years ago I saw a chart on weather accuracy that varied from 100% (white) to single digits (black). The western US deserts were white and there were various shades of gray around the country to black in the Puget Sound region and the Gulf of Alaska. If you believe the weatherman in Seattle, I have a couple floating bridges that I will sell you cheap too ;)

[Bob Gross]

Dale, I didn't make any claims about prediction accuracy in your area, did I?

–B.G.–

[Ceph Lotus]

The Bowline and the Tautline Hitch are probably the best two knots for tent guylines, at least those are the two I use. You can carry this along as a reminder on how to tie them, if you forget.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Bob

> Don't you have a government weather service that does predictions?
Yep, they predict, but only for about 5 days I think. And that is only for the lowlands.
As OPs have mentioned, in the mountains, 'things happen'.

We had made camp on a bright fine calm sunny day in autumn, and thought we would visit a nearby mountain hut. One hour later, on our way back, we were hit with 1 cm hail. Quite unpredicted.

I have some photos of our camp in the snow way up high in beautiful fine weather. During the night we had a howling gale with millimetre-size corn snow or mini-hail. Total white-out in the morning. Quite unpredicted.

We were camped just under a ridge in the snow, quite comfortably, one evening. The weather was sort-of average. During the night it suddenly got so hot I was sleeping on top of my quilt – in the snow. In the morning there was a lot of grass around us!

We came across an abandoned campsite up high but not too far from a road. Baby's nappies, raw vegetables, some gear, skins for skis, and other stuff scattered around. A couple with baby had been camped there in the snow in fine weather with their gear outside the tent when bad weather hit. They had got out as best they could.

We don't take a real lot of notice of the forecasts … We just assume the worst.

Cheers

[Bob Gross]

Roger, I think you Aussies have the same problem with weather prediction that we have in the U.S.A. It's hard to predict anything with all of that hot air in the government.

–B.G.–

[Dave T]

"I was wondering what you all think the best knot for Triptease line is? I want to be able to tie the cord on securely, including making loops that don't slide at the end for stakes."

In case you can't read and/or comprehend, these two OP sentences are asking what the best knot for Triptease line is, and asking about tying cord on securely, including in a non-sliding loop. Nowhere does it ask about adjustable knots (e.g. the much-storied tautline hitch) or imply that I (or others) don't know how to tie knots in rope. I think you should start a Gear (or perhaps Gear Chaff, if we can add that forum Addie?) entitled "Linelocks… for lame-ass wannabies?" if you wanna expectorate upon that. Weather reports? Just don't know.

Again, thanks to all the folks who provide helpful comments in response to the OP. Much appreciated!

Dale, you also are providing a helpful lesson in what I don't want to become when I grow up. So thanks too!

Carry on.

[Bob Gross]

Dave, we might want to set the record straight. In your original posting, you said that this was for guylines. There are all sorts of ways that guylines get used with knots. However, a high percentage of those ways involve adjustable knots. That's how the adjustable knot discussion came around. There are ways with fixed knots as well, but then you generally want to have a plastic adjuster involved to deal with the tension. So, everybody here had a different way of looking at the issue, not just yours.

–B.G.–

[David Adair]

Lets face it a bowline, regardless of effectiveness, is an ugly knot. What with that misshapen line sticking out all awkward like and all. On the other hand, a double figure eight seems like ostentatious overkill for a guy-line. A simple overhand knot? – may work fine but does it look lazy and uninspired? A perfection knot? -an attractive symmetry but is it too pretentious?

[Anonymous]

"There are all sorts of ways that guylines get used with knots. However, a high percentage of those ways involve adjustable knots."

I'm sort of confused. Could you explain a few of those ways? I haven't taken the guylines off my tarp/tent ever since the advent of line locs, and a combination of an overhand or figure 8 knot and a line loc has always sufficed quite nicely. As Roger C correctly observed, adjustable knots don't fare so well in icy conditions.

[Bob Gross]

Tom, the original posting asked nothing at all about use in icy conditions.

If you read up a bit, some people are bypassing the use of plastic adjusters by using adjustable knots. There are different kinds of adjustable knots. Some people learn one adjustable knot and then stop right there. Others experiment with different adjustable knots until they find one that works for them. I hope that helps with your confusion.

–B.G.–

[Dale Wambaugh]

………

[Dave T]

The new BPL. Even the "old timers" are getting in on the new marginal vibe.

Again, thanks to the folks who had actual helpful answers. Everyone else who wants to read lots into a simple question and somehow fashion it into crazy responses, I just dunno about ya.

Specifically, Dale, nah, not yuppie scum, I was thinking along the lines of crabby old f*ck. Unless someone hijacked your account, and then I'm sorry.

[Dale Wambaugh]

………

[David Adair]

Hey Dave T- beside the entertainment value, a lot of us got good useful information out of this thread. In particular, the alpine butterfly knot that Terry G. suggested and Dale's suggestion of putting the tautline at the tarp loop end. Good stuff. So thanks for putting up with a little abuse on our behalf. Don't be expecting any slack on chaff though.

[Dale Wambaugh]

………

[David Adair]

All this talk about growing a pair, guts and brains and personal initiative is upsetting to me. Besides I don't need any of those things, I have a button on my PLB.

"I sure wouldn't want to hike with someone who couldn't tie a few knots to stabilize a broken limb, let alone pitch a #$%^&* tarp properly."

I wouldn't want to hike with someone who yells, swears and berates me about little things like knots. You may actually be a crabby old guy. If you keep it up I am going to suggest your vicinity as the right place to retire on a bush-crafter forum.

[Dale Wambaugh]

………

[Anonymous]

"If you read up a bit, some people are bypassing the use of plastic adjusters by using adjustable knots."

I think I'd have had to dig pretty deep to uncover that little nugget, Bob, and once I did I'd have been hard pressed to derive any use from the information. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

"There are different kinds of adjustable knots. Some people learn one adjustable knot and then stop right there. Others experiment with different adjustable knots until they find one that works for them. I hope that helps with your confusion."

Actually, my question had to do with all those unspecified uses of guy lines that required adjustable knots, so I'm afraid I'm still confused. But thank you for your efforts to enlighten me.

BTW; I'm reasonably familiar with adjustable knots and, to this day, have found only one, the clove hitch, to be of much use to me. I consider the others to be mostly merit badge material. But that's just me: an unabashed KISS principle disciple to the bone.

[Bob Gross]

Many, many years ago, and many thousands of miles away, I was a young man in the military. One summer, our commander had us form up a mountaineering school with primary focus on rappelling. As one of the instructors, my first class was how to tie knots, not not how to tie knots. However, I only needed to teach those knots that were applicable to a vertical rope experience.

So, I taught basics: square knot, granny knot, half-hitch, bowline, and a prussik. I suppose that a prussik may or may not be an adjustable knot, depending on how you look at it.

To this day, I believe that those knots are the only ones that I can tie without thinking. I have to think to tie a tautline and some others. If I am just setting up camp on a nice day, it doesn't matter. If I am out in the middle of a blizzard at 12,000 feet with the sun setting, then I may not have much brain power left, so I have to keep to just the knots that I can tie automatically.

I wonder if many of the thousands of my knot students can still tie anything after all of these many years. I guess knot.

–B.G.–

[Johnny Duke]

Great thread here.

Clove hitch is a good one.

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