Oct 14, 2011 at 12:17 pm #1280608
I want to modify my Tarptent guylines a bit (and add one off the front), so I was wondering what you all think the best knot for Triptease line is? I want to be able to tie the cord on securely, including making loops that don't slide at the end for stakes.
Bowline? Something else?
Thanks!Oct 14, 2011 at 12:22 pm #1790528
Eric LundquistBPL Member
@cobbermanLocale: Northern Colorado
A simple bowline is what I use at the ends of my guylines. How will you adjust your line tension if you do not have a hitch/line loc on one end?Oct 14, 2011 at 1:20 pm #1790546
"How will you adjust your line tension if you do not have a hitch/line loc on one end?"
Sigh – and people wonder why UL is mocked:Oct 14, 2011 at 1:59 pm #1790570
Eric LundquistBPL Member
@cobbermanLocale: Northern Colorado
I was simply asking the OP what his intentions were for how he would tighten his lines. It appeared that he may have been tying bowline knots at each end which would not allow for tension other than re-staking. There are several ways to do this as you have shown. I use both tautline hitches on my shelter as well as a prussik.Oct 14, 2011 at 2:38 pm #1790592
Rick DreherBPL Member
@halfturboLocale: Northernish California
Bowline to attach it to the tent loop, taut line hitch at the stake end for adjustability. Both hold fine with Triptease, unlike with straight dyneema/kevlar etc. lines that won't hold these knots.
RickOct 14, 2011 at 4:09 pm #1790634
Thanks Eric and Rick. Bowline at the end it is. There are line tensioners on the contrail, so no worries on tightening it on the Contrail side (and no need for a "sigh" either). Just need a loop that holds on the staking-out end. Thanks!Oct 14, 2011 at 4:21 pm #1790642Oct 14, 2011 at 4:48 pm #1790654
I never realized people took the perceived lack of another's ability to tie a taut-line hitch so personally. And, anyway, I'll stick with my tiny plastic tensioners that work great, and won't feel like any less of an outdoorsman. If they are good enough for Henry Shires, they are good enough for me.Oct 14, 2011 at 5:29 pm #1790672
Figure 8 is a really good one too. Especially if you're using it on the stake end. That way you don't have to tie it as a follow through. It's a common knot used in climbing connecting harness to rope, so its pretty strong.
Figure 8 is very easy and fast to tie. Bowline is a great knot too, but easier to make a mistake in my opinion.
Neither slip. Both are good to know.Oct 14, 2011 at 6:24 pm #1790692Oct 14, 2011 at 6:32 pm #1790696
Unfortunately no one is born with the inherited ability to tie knots. Fortunately anyone can learn to tie them if they want to.Oct 14, 2011 at 7:14 pm #1790724
welcome to the new BPL, where even the simplest question about what type of knot holds well to make a loop in Triptease can turn quickly into nonsense.
dale, you are needed in the Chaff forum, stat.Oct 14, 2011 at 7:18 pm #1790725
Travis LeannaBPL Member
>I never realized people took the perceived lack of another's ability to tie a taut-line hitch so personally. And, anyway, I'll stick with my tiny plastic tensioners that work great, and won't feel like any less of an outdoorsman. If they are good enough for Henry Shires, they are good enough for me.
+1Oct 14, 2011 at 7:25 pm #1790728
Terry GBPL Member
@delvxeLocale: Pacific Northwest
For a loop at the end, I almost always use the "double dragon" or "alpine butterbly." It doesnt seem possible for these to slip. You probably wont have a problem with a bowline in triptease, but as rope gets slicker you need something a bit grippier. I use the double dragon and alpine butterfly almost exclusively now. Personally I think they are easier to tie, too.
take a look her for both of them: http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_SingleLoops.htmOct 14, 2011 at 7:47 pm #1790735
Ceph LotusBPL Member
I love the Tautline Hitch.Oct 14, 2011 at 7:54 pm #1790738Oct 14, 2011 at 9:18 pm #1790777
Jim ColtenBPL Member
Unfortunately no one is born with the inherited ability to tie knots. Fortunately anyone can learn to tie them if they want to.
I'm not sure I can agree with that. My own experience has been that there are knot people and there are those who are not;-)
With enough effort and incentive both can be taught to tie knots today but only the first group will be able to tie the knot tomorrow. The first group picks up on the spatial relationships in the knot on their own and the second group doesn't see them when pointed out (even when using different colors of rope) … I could go on forever on this. Or perhaps the difference is contained in your words if they want to???Oct 14, 2011 at 9:41 pm #1790783Oct 14, 2011 at 11:55 pm #1790808
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
> if you can't learn to tie a taut line hitch, stay home.
Well, I think I can tie a taut-line hitch … and a few others.
But try adjusting one in a howling snow storm. There are times when it just is not worth the hassle. Not to mention the way a taut-line hitch tends to slip when moved over an ice-coated bit of string. The little plastic Line-Loks bite through the ice very nicely in my experience.
CheersOct 15, 2011 at 2:12 am #1790810
@mikefaedundeeLocale: Under a bush in Scotland
I have a pre-tied loop on one end of my guylines. I simply use a larks foot to connect it to the loop on the shelter. A plastic line-lock on the other end. I favour the simplicity of the line-lock in bad weather.Oct 15, 2011 at 3:03 am #1790814
John S.BPL Member
A taut line hitch can sometimes be difficult to get as tight as using a line loc. Line locs are also lost easily, so you still should learn the knot in case you lose it.
Nothing wrong with using them. Don't be bullied or shamed by others into using what they want to shove down your throat ; ).Oct 15, 2011 at 8:31 am #1790868
yea I can relate to that. I've got a buddy that I've climbed with multiple times, and every once in a while he would be like – how do you tie this figure eight again – hmmm.
But we learned to climb together and I went home and practiced tying the knots over and over again where he didn't, so it suck with me more because I really wanted to know them. I still do the same with basically every knot I learn. It may take a little practice to get it down especially to the point where it feels natural.
But I enjoy knowing different knots and being able to use them in different situations where others just aren't sure what to do. So practicing tying them is something I enjoy. I think everyone should obtain a little knot tying knowledge. Even if it takes some work getting there.
Bowlines, figure 8s, taut line hitches, water knots… these are a few good ones to know.
In regard to the OP. Both bowlines and figure 8s would work great and are easy to tie once you learn. They wont slip. Neither will some of the others that have been mentioned.Oct 15, 2011 at 11:12 am #1790901
Just for the record, I know how to tie most of these knots. It was more a question about which knots hold well in Triptease; apparently many do, and for those that actually provided useful input, thanks again!
(Dale, you are having a bad coupla days apparently. Hope you have a better tomorrow.)Oct 15, 2011 at 11:44 am #1790911
"But try adjusting one in a howling snow storm."
What percentage of backpackers are not only 4 season, but are willing to head out during a winter storm? My guess is that 95%+ are 3 season at most, with perhaps 75% limited to 1 season. Out of the remaining 5%, I would venture to guess that 95% wait for storms to pass first.
(That is, go out in glorious snow covered mountains under crystal clear blue skies. This activity is actually pretty popular in the Sierra, where x-country skiers come out in droves after a big dump.)
If you are in the very small minority that is willing/capable of dealing with winter storm conditions, then your choice of equipment could hardly be questioned. But that's the key – you have both knowledge & judgment regarding your specific environment. You use both to make critical decisions, with your comment about line-lok vs taught line evidence that you know what works best given those conditions.
But let's get back to the 75%; what is a base-line prerequisite of knowledge & judgment? Or is there one? I would suggest there is, just like there is in any active sport.
For any form of backpacking, UL or otherwise, I would include: knowing some basic knots, knowing how to light a fire, knowing how to read a map, knowing how to erect a tent/tarp/shelter, etc. In short, something every 13 yo kid in BSA learns.
I don't care if it's fishing, surfing, skiing, etc – one should assume the responsibility of "not being that guy". That means a little research, watching some video, asking 'how to' questions, etc.
This thread would have gone in a completely different direction if the OP had directly asked for some tips/directions on knots.Oct 15, 2011 at 12:07 pm #1790921
spelt with a tBPL Member
@speltLocale: SW/C PA
>>This thread would have gone in a completely different direction if the OP had directly asked for some tips/directions on knots.
He did. To wit:
"I was wondering what you all think the best knot for Triptease line is?"
The person you initially replied to was Eric.
I think everyone should know half a dozen or so useful knots. Whether an individual chooses to use knots or not on their tarp guylines doesn't affect me in the least and I'm hard-pressed to come up with a reason I should care.
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