Stoic Hadron?

[Konrad .]

Here are some pics of a Montbell UL Parka vs. a Stoic Hadron, both in size small

I'll add some words, comments, and specs in the next few days.

Sorry, pic quality isn't up to par. Poor lighting, my fault.

Quick notes: The Hood on the MB parka is cinched down to create the tight fit, and the fit of the Hadron is a little wider at the torso.
Fill/loft looks very comparable, with the Hadron having maybe a bit more (personal observation)

Both Jackets are still brand new with zero use, other than physical inspection, and trying on for fit.

Fit comparison (MB on top of Stoic; drop tail hem belongs to Stoic jacket)

Body loft

Sleeve Loft

[William Zila]

real quick view. what i like more about the stoic. its one ounce lighter, i like pullovers "maybe it's the beauty of simplicity" this also will help with warmth since there's no cold spot from a zipper. what i like more about the montbell is. better hood, the down inner parka has a great hood, and fit its a slightly more athletic fit.

heres the montbell over a lamp see the light places around the edges it seems the baffles are slightly under filled

notice how the stoics baffles appear more " filled" you also see more "dark spots" where the down is pressing against the shell

heres a loft comparison notice the stoic is slightly loftier

[Konrad .]

William, a couple things I noted..on MB jackets, each box baffle is not created equal, with some being more underfilled/overfilled than others. On my old 2008 montbell inner Jacket, I had some baffles that felt like they were barely filled while others were just fine. I haven't checked with the stoic…any observations?

Also, your MB is noticeably less lofty than the Stoic when compared to my pics. Your MB has seen a decent amount of use, no? Thanks!

[Eric Botshon]

After reading the latest article on UL down jackets didn't they come to the conclusion that loft is semi-irrelivant?

So what should matter is….which is warmer in the field?

[William Zila]

nope only used the montbell 6 nights. for the pic i shook both jackets real well then layed them on the board ran my hands over them with minimum pressure and let them sit for 30 minutes. the lamp pics are taken of baffles that seemed a averagely filled . yes some of the montbell baffles have almost no down especially the side baffles. i did not notice this of the stoic when viewing it over the lamp

also i think the side pic shows the loft better. and it is true loft is semi relevant. anyone know exact grams of fill for the stoic vs. the montbell ? i know the stoic uses 850 over 800

[Eric Botshon]

2.5 @ 800 for montbell
2.3 @ 850 for stoic

Works out to be the same

Stoic should have the edge with the windproof shell?

[Ben Smith]

For William, Konrad, Chris, and others who have both the Stoic and the MB jackets (and other brands).

Which type of wrist cuff do you like better? Is the sweatshirt-type cuff on the Stoic more comfortable, more sealing from the elements, etc? Is it worth the extra weight (I would guess 6 – 8 grams more than if it were nylon, down, and elastic)?

[William Zila]

i like the stoic's cuffs more they seal better and keep the poofy down sleeves out of the way. i like the montbells sleeves too but i prefer the stoic's

[Konrad .]

Ben, based on my initial observations, my preference is going towards the Stoic cuffs. It really produces an excellent seal. There are caveats though. Namely 1) You obviously don't get the extra insulation of down around your wrists; and 2) The cuffs cause the jacket sleeves to not sit fully-extended. If you look at the pic of me wearing the stoic next to the one with the MB jacket, you'll notice a bit of bunching near the elbows on the Stoic…I believe this is due to the wrist cuffs not allowing the jacket arms to rest properly. Keep in mind, I have long arms for my height (5'9" with an 18.5" torso, but a 33" sleeve) so if you have shorter arms for your frame, this may be exaggerated even more. The consequence being more dead air space resulting from the bunching of the sleeves. I believe this is partially why Chris Wallace feels that the arms are huge on his size Medium jacket. Without the tight wrist cuffs, the down sleeves should drape better over the arms.

That said, I feel that it's nice to have the sweatshirt style cuffs on the Stoic because they afford me a slight margin of error when handling flames, stoves, and other objects that can be quite damaging to UL clothing. The cuffs will also be easier to tuck into outer-mitten gauntlets, as well as provide a tighter seal when worn over glove liners.

[William Zila]

to take away the bunching on the shoulders you can flip the cuffs so there tucked under the sleeves

[Konrad .]

In addition to the previously discussed cuffs, here are a few things I've noted between both jackets:

1) The hood on the MB parka is mediocre. It has tons of adjustability, and a nice hood brim, but the adjustment system is total utter crap. To reduce the volume of the hood so that it fits tight, you have to dig for 2 hidden cordlocks (tucked behind a layer of fabric on either side of the hood), adjust it, and then retuck it back in. This entire process was impossible for me without taking the jacket off and physically seeing the adjustment system. The bill is useless to me…this is a midlayer, not an outer. The bill on my rain jacket will be more useful if I need that protection from rain/snow

Because of this, I really enjoy the simplicity of the Stoic hood. Nice and fitted, with enough room for a beanie underneath. I've used this style hood before (FA down hooded pullover) in conjunction with a Patagonia R1 hoodie style midlayer, and they layer extremely well.

2) Fabric Texture
The MB take the cake, hands down. The MB material offers a very very soft hand, akin to silk, whereas the Stoic has a crinkly stiff feel to it. The Stoic is noticeably louder when handling. Interesting enough, the Stoic uses Pertex Quantum, which is the same material used in BPL's own cocoon pullover. However, I found the BPL cocoon material to be softer and quieter than Stoic's. Not sure how to explain this discrepancy.

If you are familiar with MB, you will recall that MB changed their material around 2008. The Stoic material is extremely similar to the 2008 MB material. Some have described it as "trashbaggy"

Note: This is only meant to describe the feel of the fabric. It's my understanding and intuition that I will benefit more from the Pertex Quantum used in the Stoic jacket. I suspect it is more windproof, and it does indeed feel more durable than the Montbell (an observation I share with William)

3) Full zip vs Snaps
The MB offers a full zip…obviously very convenient but with a weight penalty. The Stoic uses a anorak style half-opening, with 4 plastic snaps at the placket. I'm a little concerned about the plastic snaps. They are fairly stiff, and a bit hard to open once snapped. Metal snaps are easier IMO. My concern relates to the delicate UL fabrics, and how they will fair against the pulling motion when trying to open the snap placket. Just worried that the stiff snaps will rip the fabric that holds them in place…I carefully use my nails to pry the snaps open as opposed to using brute force and tugging on the fabrics to open them.

4) Color:
This is stupid, but worth mentioning. I really like the Excalibur/Vintage color scheme on the Stoic. My photo came out bad…Chris's is much more accurate. It's an awesome gray/graphite/carbon color

5) Hem drawcord
MB uses a complex system that requires adjustment to take place inside the handpocket (where you will find the cord lock). There are two of these on either side of the jacket. Complex and heavy. The stoic uses a very simple 1-hand adjustment system found on the user's right hip. I much prefer the Stoic's.

6) Pockets
MB has 2 hand pockets, while the Stoic has a 1 kangeroo style pass-through pocket.

7) Fit
MB has a more athletic cut overall, but the Stoic has a drop tail for a wee bit more coverage. The MB is cut straight across, both front and back.

8) Weight (Men's Small)
MB- 7.5oz ; Stoic-6.6oz

[Konrad .]

William is absolutely correct about rolling the cuffs. Haha so simple, I feel dumb for not thinking of it myself. I just tried it on with the cuffs flipped inwards, and all excess fabric/bunching was eliminated. A very good fit really. Seems like Stoic made the arms very long on this jacket.

[William Zila]

nice write up Konrad i agree with you on most of the points i like the montbell hood once adjusted, but it is a pain in the a$$ to adjust. i do like the montbell fabric but it seems more fragile to me. i had a very small dim ember from a fire i was standing about 7 feet away from burn a 4mm hole in it in about 2 seconds. i feel the pertex is more durable. but thats just a feeling i do like the pertex however . i also second the awesome color of the Excalibur/vintage

Oo and btw my small montbell weighs 7.5 ounces my small stoic weighs 6.6

[Konrad .]

Thanks for the additional info William, I've updated my post to reflect the weights.

Also, I agree about the pertex. I should have been more clear. The MB takes the cake for softness and comfort, but I agree with you that Pertex is superior because of it's durability and weather-resistant properties.

[William Zila]

I think the hadron truly pushes into the exlights realm. its a ounce lighter then my down inner parka, at 6.6 ounces for a small anyone have a weight on a small exlight? this is a pullover compared to the exlight being a full zip. but on the flipside it has a pocket " toasty hands" and a hood " keep your noggin warm and you cant lose it" i would choose the hood and pocket over a full zip anyday. also the pertex quantum is most likely more windproof/ water resistant than the 7d shell on the exlight it should also be more durable that's just a guess but from my experience with the down inner it rings true. the amount of down in the exlight is 1.8 ounces of 900fp which comes to 1,620 cubic inches of loft. the hoodles stoic has 2 ounces of 850fp which comes to 1,600 cubic inches. so warmth should be similar. the stoic is cheaper, the hadron has a hood and pocket and all for less then 1.5 ounces extra you can nix a benie and save 1 ounce so its only a literal extra .5 ounces for the warmth . nice especially if you get it of SAC for 100$

EDIT did some math and my small hadron weighs 6.6 ounces the stated weight is 8 ounces for a large this means there is a 17.5 percent weight drop from large to small apply those figures to cardigan and you get a small weight of 5.74 ounces. assume a medium is right in the middle of those figures and you get 6.3ish. thats really starting to get up in the exlights turf. the hadron is looking like it will be one of the best insulation options out there for mild 2-3 season temps. ps i did all that math and i never passed algebra class ha and my mom said I needed to know that stuff

[CW]

I prefer the sweatshirt style cuff on the Stoic as well.

[CW]

My hooded medium is 7.4 oz.

[Dave Marcus]

My large was 7.9 oz. The medium shows up tomorrow for size and weight comparison.

Also, Stoic claims 2.3 oz of down for the hoody and 2.0 for the cardigan.

[Dave Marcus]

Medium is 7.4 oz with tags attached. I'll post pictures of both on me for size comparison a bit later.

[Dave Marcus]

Decided to keep the medium.

Medium

Large

It's difficult to tell from the pics, but I had about 4" of extra space in the Large in the torso area. I wear a 42 suit and assumed the Large, which Stoic says fits up to 41.6" chest would be the correct size for me. Turns out I was wrong. I recommend sizing down on the Hadron if you like an athletic fit.

[Kris Costanzo]

Now that you've had the stoic for a while, how do you like it? Still using it? Durable?

[Vince Contreras]

I'm still loving mine. I open/close the snaps with no special attention, and they are holding up fine…probably 35-ish days of actual use so far. Love the wrist cuffs; as Konrad mentions, they do a stand-up job of keeping the pertex/down away from any sharp/hot things I might have in my hands, while allowing the wrist good range of motion when used in conjunction with gloves.

The Hadron is a keeper; I look forward to wearing it threadbare.

[And E]

Hey, sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I just ordered one off of geartrade and was wondering what temp were you all comfortable wearing this down to sitting around camp and with what layers?

[Derek M.]

Well, I'm trying to resurrect this old thread with the same question as An-D:

What temperature will this Hadron Down Anorak keep you comfortable down to? Just trying to figure out how warm it is compared to other UL down jackets. Thanks!

[Jason Robichaud]

So the Stoic brand is gone. BC is again branding their stuff as BC. I have the new BC Hadron. It is in dry environments essentially as comfortable in comparable conditions as the UL Parka from MB will be. The lighter weight is probably a bit of less fill weight but in my comparison mostly its functionally from the half zip and kangaroo pocket.

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