Best lightweight winter tent?

[Ethan A.]

I just checked the stats on the Golite Valhalla 2 and 4 four season tents made of Epic and SilNylon and it looks like they give you more interior space and more vestibule storage space than the comparable weight Hillebergs. I have no idea how the Golite Epic and SilNylon perform, but they say it would take a long time for rain to begin to penetrate the fabric, which wouldn’t be an issue with snow, but could be with mixed weather. From Golite rep: "I would say that in a Moderate to heavy rain it would take 6 to 8 hours before water may penetrate, light rain would be 12 hours!"

The Golite Valhalla 2 – 7'6" length x 5' width x 3'6" height, gives you 37 sq ft internal space, 2 doors and 2 19 sq ft vestibule at 5 lb 3 oz, versus 32 Sq Ft for the Allak, 2 doors and 2 9.7 sq ft vestibules at 6 lb 6 oz.

The Golite Valhalla 4 7'6" length x 7'6" width x 3'9" height gives you a whopping 56 sq ft internal space, 2 doors and 2 19 sq ft vestibule at 6 lb 6 oz.

Because of the fully waterproof outer on the Allak and other Hillebergs, it’s no doubt much better at handling wet weather for 3 season use. Plus it’s a time tested design, whereas the Valhalla is a new one.

Anyone have any experience with the Valhalla, particularly ability to handle long periods of wet weather, stability and quiet in high winds, and snow loading?

Golite by the way said it's redesigning its site to offer much more detailed information on shelters and other products. Their tent info is pretty sparse now, so you have to email them for details.

GoLite Valhalla 2+ Shelter 2-3 Person 4-Season
http://www.backcountry.com/store/GOL0236/GoLite-Valhalla-2%2B-Shelter-2-3-Person-4-Season.html

GoLite Valhalla 4 Shelter 4-Person 4-Season
http://www.backcountry.com/store/GOL0237/GoLite-Valhalla-4-Shelter-4-Person-4-Season.html?CMP_ID=SH_FRO001&CMP_SKU=GOL0237&mv_pc=r126

[Roger Caffin]

> From Golite rep: "I would say that in a Moderate to heavy rain it would take 6 to 8 hours
> before water may penetrate, light rain would be 12 hours!"

That's the rep's version, and when brand new. Me, I would not want to use an EPIC tent in rain, period. After wetting out the first night, the second night will be a disaster.

However, EPIC does work nicely in the snow, and breathes well.

Other comments:
* the vestibule space looks very small
* you might get snow (and will get rain) inside the tent when you open the door
* I can't seee many guy rope attachment points for just two poles
* The 42" height makes it stick up in the wind a bit, like a sail

It's a large EPIC pop-up.

Cheers

[Ethan A.]

Good observations, I agree with all. As for the rep's version, that's why I identified it with quotations. I think Golite is a good company, but I've had winners from them (quality construction, bomber materials), and also a few losers (poor construction, bad materials). In all cases they knew when a loser was a loser and took care of the issue – their customer service is quite good. For now we've settled on an Allak, which you can't go wrong with, and which will allow us the flexibility to use 3 seasons in addition to winter. I've heard very good reports on the venting from the double doors and fly vents.

[Mike Clelland]

I sat out a five day storm in Alaska in early season (early May) with the VALHALLA and I loved it.

THe vestabule was small, it was super breathable – and it stood up to serious wind.

No experience in the rain, But you could just seal the seams and be in good shap (I think)

M!

[Charles Jennings]

Gosh, Stephen, your buckle questions might be better answered by Petra. Not sure how they compare with the Staika.

I know on the Allak, that the roof covering connects on one side with short hooks that snap into place on rings, then I believe they connect with toggles on the other side. The roof piece can be tightened up as needed.

The connecting pieces never gave us any problem and were easy to handle with gloves on.

[Stephen Yan-Klassen]

Thanks Charles. Sounds like the same as the latest model Staika. I will give Petra a call. To order one.

[Bailey Gin]

SteveK wrote "Thanks Charles. Sounds like the same as the latest model Staika. I will give Petra a call. To order one."

The Allak I sold sounds correct, 3 toggle and ring plus 3 hook and ring umbrella attachment connectors. My Staika, which I guess is a 2008 (bought 3 months ago from Moontrail), uses 6 toggle and ring umbrella attachment connectors. So I'm not sure if the Staika was switched over to the Allak style.
b.gin

[Ethan A.]

Mike, was that a Valhalla 2 or 4? Weren't there 2 vestibules?

How 'bout a review of the Valhalla 2 and 4?

[Ethan A.]

Spent our first Sierra winter trip ever in the Lake Alpine area near Bear Valley in an Allak and it was very warm, cozy and quiet relative to other shelters in our party (many used 3 season shelters with a lot of mesh windows and there were a few light to ultralight single wall shelters as well).

Venting was excellent and condensation inside both the outer tent and inner tent was truly minimal, especially with use of a footprint to minimize water vapor coming in from the vestibule floors and with slight openings in the roof vent).

We were super comfortable in our Allak – the warmest and dryest in our party. I'd enjoy the extra room of a Saivo or like-sized double door tent if we were traveling by pulk, which is looking very attractive in rolling terrain. Thinking about a DIY one from a kiddy sled + PVC pipes + hip pack (to attach the pulk poles to).

After being in Sierra snow conditions I understand much better many BPL staff and member comments about the conditions – sooo different from New England winter conditions. Was sunny and up to 49F middle of the day, down to about 18-20F at night.

Will share more comments later about which gear worked well and which didn't, and what I'd adjust from our New England quiver for these conditions.

[Ethan A.]

These are larger though still light winter tents – curious to know more about them – can anyone comment on how they perform in wind/snow/rain?

BPL, how about a review?

[stephen Kimpton]

Just a general point that all hillebergs can be double poled including the clip system ones.

If you want to double pole just clip each pole to every other clip. This is specified in the 2009 hilleberg tent handbook.

[Cesar Garcia]

Ive never used one but does the MSR Fury fit the criteria? Its 94" long with 45" peak height, so fits tall people, 62" at its widest point, & 3 pole design plus a poled vestibule.

Has anyone use this tent in conditions listed above?

[Roger Caffin]

Well, it is a move in the right direction.

I am not sure about the "Large, rear mesh window " they mention: if that can be sealed up then it should keep out the spindrift. If it can't be totally shut then the tent is useless in a storm – so I would expect they can do something.

No snow flaps, so spindrift will get in underneath and build up in between the inner and outer. Despite snow walls.

Otherwise, I would say small but usable from looking at it. i haven't tried it though.

Cheers

[Cesar Garcia]

The mesh window is bigger then the older model they have pics of on Moontrail. Anyhow form the images it seems you can close the window. Here is a link to a site that has some good shots of the tent. Its not in English but you can still click on the images to enlarge them.
http://www.fliegfix.com/webshop/produkte.php?id=MSRFURY

Im not that familiar with snow camping so this may sound like a dumb questions but are snow flaps that important? The only reason I ask is there seems to be a lot of 4season tents that do not have snow flaps.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Cesar

> are snow flaps that important? The only reason I ask is there seems to be a lot of
> 4season tents that do not have snow flaps.

Very good point. The reality is that there is a full spectrum of tents and conditions, not just two categories. For instance, what does '4 season' mean? In some parts of the country it might mean the temperature gets down to near freezing with a light breeze; in other parts of the country it could mean temperatures of -40 F and winds approaching 100 mph.

For many people who camp below the tree line, even on snow and in winter, snow flaps around the tent may be a bit superfluous. Some of my winter tents don't have snow flaps. But if you are going to camp on a high ridge in a howling snow storm (not recommended, of course), then snow flaps become rather useful. :-)

The second answer to your question is to beware of the marketing spin most manufacturers come up with. Just because they call something 'X' does not mean a real lot. After all, they just want your money. You are best advised to check with users!

cheers

[Brad Groves]

I've owned and used a number of winter/expedition tents. My big monster is an old Moss Little Dipper (it weighs as much as my complete 3-season pack these days, but good for a bunch of people and canoe trips). An old favorite is a WPB Garuda Kaja. But my new favorite is the Fury. The Fury is about as "bombproof" of a winter tent as you'll find, but relatively light. I don't have the gall to actually lay on top of the tent, but the frame seems rigid enough to do it without harm… if someone has a Fury they'd like to offer up to science let me know.

Somewhat anecodotally, I've had the first two tents I mentioned in 60+MPH winds and in snowfall of nearly 2 feet overnight. The Fury is at least as strong and capable as the other two, perhaps more so than the Kaja. But the Fury's relatively new to me, didn't get a chance to use it in any horrid conditions this winter.

EDIT: Sometimes I make assumptions, guess I shouldn't… :P For more info on the MSR Fury, do a search for the Moss Stardome. MSR bought Moss tents and the Fury is a remodel of the (remodeled) Stardomes. A very well-proven design, beloved by many.

[larry savage]

Lots of great tents out there – I used an Integral Design MK1 last winter [yep, single wall]. For several years I used a Wilderness Engineering Kinder Shuttle [pulk] but alas the kinder grew up so I passed it on to another dad.
[As a brief sidenote, skate skiing with a pulk loaded with child is an incredible workout, I had serious racers wanting to borrow pulk and kid to do intervals with.]
So time passes and I needed to borrow the pulk back to haul stuff for the Special Olympics and my friend had popped for their tent/sled called the Snow Cave.
After the Olympics I took it out for a spring tour.
Many of our more classic approaches are long snowed in forest service roads tracked by snowmobiles.
This tent/sled worked remarkable well for that application.[photos from their web page]

[Matthias Schnapka]

Hi Steven,

I had this HB Soulo tent before 2 yearsfor an nearly 8 weeks Trip through the Highlanddesert of Iceland.

You could belive me, it will handle every sort of weather conditions. As a Pro Photographer I was on my trip with an Gregory Denali Pro Backpack an with nearly subtotal 90 Punds of Gear, Food, wather and Photocamera-Equipment.
I got all the stuff inside my tent and the vestibul. 7 Days all the time raining at hte southcost……no Problem for the Soulo ( without seamsealing )…..but of course after 5-6 days my down pleepingbag became a bit flat, cause no chance to dry it out in the sun, and a bit of condansation inside as well.

Stormprotection. I was in the area of Landmannalaugar ( south Highlands ) on of the worlds most beautiful areas for hikking and a stormy area as well.

A lot of tent`s around me where totally broken down after 2 stormy days. But I was just sleeping in my tent and enjoyed the wind blowing and thought to my self…….."come on…. just ab bit harder"…….the Soulo was just shakking a bit.

And when you`ll fit it with Carbonfiber poles it will be possible to reduce the subtotalweight down to nearly 1,9kg ( 4,2 pounds )

For me the worls best 1 person 4-5 Season tent. But it`s pricey of course.

Reagrds from Germany

Matt

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