Best lightweight winter tent?

[Steven Evans]

In reality…any shelter, when pitched correctly, is good for "winter" use. The term winter is fairly broad – so it's best to give specifics of conditions. My Taprtent Double Rainbow is my winter tent, but the Soulo and DR are in VERY different catagories and built for different situations.

3" of snow? I still mow my lawn when we have 3" of snow :)

[Roger Caffin]

> three inches of snow and 30 mph winds are not bad winter conditions,
Snicker. I've had significantly worse than that in mid-autumn.

[Steven Evans]

Hey John,
I was just looking (again) at the Soulo on the Hilleberg site. It wasn't clear if this could be set up with just the outer fly and poles, creating a floorless freestanding dome to hang out in. I think it is called "Fast Fly" option on some tents – or something like that. Any thoughts?
Really, I'm just trying to convince myself that I need it.
Steve

[John Haley]

Steve… It will definitely setup using just the fly with no added parts needed. I was just considering the possibility that I might need to do this on an upcoming hike. My hiking partner doesn't want to carry the weight of a tent and is banking on making it the ten miles, through the snow, to a shelter deep in the Green Mountains. If the worst happened, I figured I could just pitch the outer and we'd both have shelter… tight though it might be. Otherwise, I'm using the warmer tent when we do get there.

[Steven Evans]

John, this is fantastic news..I have the credit card in hand…but there is just one last question. :)

Let's say, hypothetically, that I was crazy and just had to know the weight of the outer fly and inner fly so I could figure out the different weights for each configuration. Would you have been equally as crazy and actually weighed them seperately?

I apologize for my problem and thank you for all your help.

Steve

[John Haley]

Steve… These complete weights (even the footprint) were posted by a user on another site:

Flysheet = 819g (incl. guys),
Inner = 562g,
Main bag = 32g,
Poles = 530g,
Pole bag = 16g,
Spare pole length = 19g,
Pole repair sleeve = 9g,
6 x Viper pegs = 60g,
6 x Square pegs = 63g,
Peg bag = 10.

Footprint = 224g,
Footprint bag = 11g.

[Dave Wilson]

Ive been lucky enough to get a first hand look at a Soulo before i buy one :) A friend brought one and I prompty ordered him to set it up so i could try out the dimensions. First impressions were very good, its seems very strong, good ventilation, easy to pitch and i could sit up comfortably… SOLD… not… does anyone know were i can buy one from online that ships to the UK?

someone mentioned that this tent looked flimsy ! a small dome tent using Hillebergs kerlon fabric and poles, how can it be considered flimsy? However this tent is a lot heavier than the Akto, and although i feel the Soulo would out perform the Akto in survear weather conditions, for the most part if you are under 6 foot i would still recommend the Akto instead.

[David Ure]

nm

[Brian James]

> three inches of snow and 30 mph winds are not bad winter conditions

On the Canuck prairies we can easily get snow in every month of the year. (Never mind the mountains.) So those would be, technically, summer conditions. :)

Regarding double-poling the Soulo, I don't have one but I have read a lot about Hillebergs. They say in their catalog that all their tents can be double-poled: on the ones with clips, you just attach alternating clips to alternating poles. They recommend it for taking the 9mm poles into the worst of conditions.

[T. Sedlak]

So I have also contemplated the Soulo. I have a Jannu, the 2 and a half person dome tent also made by Hilleberg. So far I have held off getting a 1 person Hilleberg for the following reason: The Jannu weighs only a pound and a half more than the Soulo and had a ton more room. The way that I figure it, if conditions are going to be bad enough that I need to bring the Hilleberg along, then it is quite possible I might be stuck in the tent weathering a storm. In such cases one will appreciate a little extra room and living space. And with a 1.5 pound weight cost you go from 21 feet to 36 feet inside the tent and 7.6 to 13 ft for the vestibule. Plus, if you are going to be spending a chunk of change on a tent, a 2 and a half person size will accomodate lots of different trip companions. Seriously, 3 people can easily pack in there if someone else's shelter is lost in a storm catastrophe.

I certainly am not a count every milligram lightweight type, and especially so when the adventure turns from summer backpacking to more risky alpinism. When people start talking about ultralight carbon fiber ice axes that don't have a B or T-rating I really start to wonder if shaving a few ounces is worth being in a wheelchair the rest of your life (or worse).

[T. Sedlak]

One final bias I have. While a single wall tent will save some weight, a double wall will be significantly warmer. Again, the ultralight crowd will say it is a bigger weight cost than just having a sleeping bag/parka with more insulation. True. But again, if conditions are potentially bad enough to warrant a Hilleberg and you are going to be cooped in the tent all day (or more), you may appreciate the extra warmth and room, so that you don't have to spend all the time in your parka and sleeping bag.

[Steven Nelson]

Tom –

I had the chance to check out a Soulo and went with the Jannu as well. I've used it on several trips now, including ones to Yellowstone and Lassen Volcanic National Parks in winter.

The extra room, in my opinion, more than makes up for the pound and a half of extra weight. It's also much easier to sit up in the Jannu, and the vestibule has a lot more room.

I'm not sure about three people in it, though – maybe in a very cramped emergency. I shared the Jannu one night in Yellowsone with Will Rietveld, and while we had adequate room for the two of us and our gear, I wouldn't call it roomy.

I own a Saivo also – way out of the lightweight realm, but truly roomy for two people and an easy fit for three, plus two vestibules, each wide enough to fit a pulk widthwise.

Good stuff…

[David Ure]

nm

[Steven Nelson]

You have both of them there in person to weigh?

I'm going by Hilleberg's claimed all-in weights for both. The difference is 1 lb 9 oz (just over a pound and a half).

In any case, depends on what you're going for. I love the extra room in the Jannu; I tried the Soulo and it wasn't a good fit for me for winter.

[David Ure]

nm

[Steven Nelson]

Yeah – the Soulo seemed to not gain much in terms of room (in fact the vestibule is more cramped than the Akto's), and I didn't see how the extra stability from the three poles was worth the extra weight compared to the space. I really couldn't sit up inside without brushing my head on the inner tent fabric.

I like the front entry on the Jannu and the vestibule can fit a pulk, so that was a better fit for how I use it, but the dual-side-entry design on the Allak is a good one, and I think would make it a better two-person tent than the Jannu.

[Peter Sustr]

I know its not that time of year yet but, does anyone have any experience with the new golite Ultralight 4-season shelters, especially the Valhalla 2+ ?

Any info would be great, I want a good light weight winter tent without having to spend big $$ for it.

Thanks!

[Christopher Plesko]

winter tent in what sense? Do you want to park it in winter winds above treeline or what? Will a pyramid meet your needs?

In general, the nastier the weather the heavier and more $$$ the tent (yes I'm excluding caves, etc)

Speaking of nasty winds, who wants to give me a Rab Summit Extreme. I promise I will pay you with pictures or video of it doing burly things. I swear. Just send me a free one.

[Ethan A.]

Chris,

What did you eventually go with? I'm putting together a winter backpacking list for the Sierras and starting to look for a good winter shelter for 2.

[Ethan A.]

I’m looking for a good solid 2 person winter tent that can shed wind and snow. Please note that I haven't read this thread yet, but looking forward to on a flight tomorrow. I'm sure it will raise new possibilities.

Note that I’m specifically looking for a tent for colder windier conditions, not a tarp, even though most winter tents will never qualify as ultralight against tarps and ultralight 3 season tents. I’ll be using the tent with my wife and occasionally with friends, mostly in the Sierra Nevada. I’m 6 ft tall and my wife is 5 ft 6. I’m also looking for lighter colored tents, as they tend to be cheerier when you’re held down by bad weather, and won’t get as hot as darker tents from sun.

I’ve focused my research so far on the following single wall tents: ID MK1XL, MK3 (I included the MK1 Lite for comparison, though it’s too short for me) and Bibler Eldorado and Fitzroy, though I’m open to any suggestions. Below are some specs and notes on each. I’d also appreciate your feedback on which options if any you’d get with the Integral Designs tents.

Integral Designs MK1 Lite – tight squeeze for two, not long enough for people over 6 ft (like the Bibler I-Tent which is good only up to hikers 5 ft 10 in.) – this could limit backpacking partners. No vestibule attachment. Thinking we’d be better off with a little longer tent.

Ideal for one person plus gear or two at a squeeze. Options and features are kept to a minimum to eliminate weight and bulk. The door is only 26" high with an outside integrated no-see-um mesh screen. The door zipper is completely protected by an elasticized weather flap. The floor is made from a 70 denier, 1.9 oz taffeta nylon, 1/2 oz urethane coating. There is a single tunnel vent high on the back wall. The MK 1's perfect parabolic shape provides the optimum amount of internal space for the minimum amount of material usage. It can be set up in under two minutes in just about any spot where you choose to make camp. The 46" x 82" floor will fit onto the tiniest of campsites. With 42" of headroom at the apex this is a comfortable tent to hang out in during bad weather. Due to the angle between floor to apex, the usable floor space is NOT LONG ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE OVER 6FT TALL (this would be a problem as it could limit backpacking partners). There is no vestibule attachment on this model.

FEATURES

Bomber single-wall mountaineering class tent
TegralTex trilaminate fabric construction
Factory taped seam
Bathtub shaped floor with heavy-duty coated 200 Denier Oxford nylon

SPECIFICATIONS

Model: MK 1 Lite
Designer: Evan Jones
Floor Space: 26 sq. ft.
Tent Weight: 3 lbs. 13 oz.
Poles: 2 Easton Nano (13oz – 370g)
Material: Floor-Polyuretha coated 200d nylon, Body-Tegraltex
Length: 82 in.
Width: 46 in.
Height: 42 in.
Usage: 4-Season/Ultralight Backpacking
Comes with 6 Easton 8 in. long light weight tubular aluminum stakes and 4 10 foot lengths of 2.2 mm cord.
Optional zip off vestibule
Packed size: 20 x 5 in.
Weight packaged with Tent, poles and stuff sack: 3lb. 12 oz.
Weight tent body: 2lb 12oz
Available in yellow
Options: Gear loft, extra pole set (Easton nano) 2 x 133 (11 ft 1 in), 4 Extra Easton tent stakes (1/2 oz)

Integral Designs MK1 XL – The MK1XL is longer and lower than the MK1 – the lower max internal height of 39 in. presents a lower profile to the wind. 86 in. length will accommodate people up to 6 ft 3 in tall. And there’s a vestibule attachment.

This is the most popular workhorse in the MK series. Integral founder and climber Brian Gross designed and built this tent for the 1986 American K2 Expedition. Using his HP calculator and skills as an engineer, Brian specialized in designing functional structures that could withstand extreme winds. Since those early days, MK 1 XL tents have proven themselves on countless mountaineering expeditions throughout the world. The MK1 XL is longer and lower than the MK1. The maximum internal height of 39" means that the tent presents a lower profile in the wind. At 86" long there is just sufficient floor space for two people up to 6 ft 3". The MK1 XL comes standard with several features for extended mountain trips: tunnel vents high on each side wall for through-flow ventilation, tie in points 1/3 the way up each pole seam and a full sized 40" high door weather protected at the top by a wire stiffener eyebrow peak allowing for ventilation. A No-see-um mesh screen is integrated to the outside of the door and a vestibule zipper is pre-installed on tent.

Comes with six Easton 8" long light weight tubular aluminum stakes and four 10-foot lengths of 2.2mm cord. An optional zip on/off vestibule is available for extra gear storage and cooking space.

FEATURES

Bomber single-wall mountaineering class tent
2 tunnel vents with no-see-um screen and toggle closures
TegralTex trilaminate fabric construction
Factory taped seam
Eyebrow peak with sewn in wire stiffener
Bathtub shaped floor with heavy-duty coated 200 Denier Oxford nylon
Optional pole supported vestibule, 19 oz.

SPECIFICATIONS

Model: MK 1 XL
Designer: Evan Jones
Floor Space: 28 sq. ft.
Vestibule: Optional Hoop pole, Zippered in 7 sq. ft.
Tent Weight: 4 lbs. 12 oz.
Poles: 2
Material: Floor-Polyuretha coated 200d nylon, Body-Tegraltex
Length: 86 in.
Width: 46 in.
Height: 39 in.
Usage: Four Season (Mountaineering)
Packed size: 20 x 6 in.
Material: Floor-Polyuretha coated 200d nylon, Body-Tegraltex
Weight packaged with Tent, poles and stuff sack: 4 lbs 12 oz
Weight tent body: 3 lb 10 oz.
Weight stakes, cord, 6 Easton stakes, 2.2 mm cord, seamgrip: 6 oz
Available in yellow
Tie points 1/3 the way up each pole seam
Full zied 40 in. high door weaither protected at top by a wire stiffened eyebrow peak
No seem mesh screen integrated to the outside of the door
Vestibule zipper pre-installed on tent door
Options: light floor (removes 8 oz.), belay slots, 2nd mini door (adds 5 oz), zip on vestibule
Accessories: gear loft, pole repair kit, extra pole set (15.5 oz), 4 Extra Easton tent stakes

Integral Designs MK3 – all the same features of the MK1 XL, just more room and weight

The MK3 is a fully featured, two person single wall mountain tent with plenty of floor area and headroom for lofty bags, tall climbers and extended trips. It features tunnel vents high up on each side wall for extra ventilation, tie points 1/3 the way up each pole seam, and full sized 40" high door weather protected at the top by a wire stiffened eyebrow peak for better ventilation.

FEATURES

Bomber single-wall mountaineering class tent
2 tunnel vents with no-see-um screen and toggle closures
TegralTex trilaminate fabric construction
Factory taped seam
Eyebrow peak with sewn in wire stiffener
Bathtub shaped floor with heavy-duty coated 200 Denier Oxford nylon
Optional pole supported vestibule, 19 oz.

SPECIFICATIONS

Model: MK3
Designer: Evan Jones
Floor Space: 33 sq. ft.
Vestibule: Optional Hoop pole, Zippered in 7 sq. ft.
Tent Weight: 5 lbs. 8 oz.
Minimum Weight: 5 lbs. 8 oz.
Fast Pack Weight: 5 lbs. 8 oz.
Poles: 2
Material: Floor-Polyuretha coated 200d nylon, Body-Tegraltex
Pack Size: 20 x 7 in.
Length: 88 in.
Width: 54 in.
Height: 45 in.
Usage: Four Season (Mountaineering)

Comes with 6 Easton 8 in. long light weight tubular aluminum stakes and 4 10 foot lengths of 2.2 mm cord.
Optional zip off vestibule
Packed size: 20 x 7 in.
Weight packaged with Tent, poles and stuff sack: 5 lb 6 oz
Weight tent body: 4 lb 4 oz
Weight stakes, cord, 6 Easton stakes, 2.2 mm cord, seamgrip:
Available in yellow
Tie points 1/3 the way up each pole seam
Full zied 40 in. high door weaither protected at top by a wire stiffened eyebrow peak
No seem mesh screen integrated to the outside of the door
Vestibule zipper pre-installed on tent door
Options: light floor (minus 9 oz), belay slots, 2nd mini door (add 5 oz)
Accessories: gear loft, pole repair kit, extra pole set (7075) 16 .4 oz, 4 extra Easton Tent Stakes

Bibler Eldorado – The Eldorado is 5 in. longer and 3 in. wider than the Bibler I-Tent. Read a review that said the fabric smells odd, but otherwise hadn’t heard that.
Super light, super strong, waterproof, breathable and easy to set up, the 2-person Eldorado was originally designed for the extreme mountain climber. This tent can be pitched on ledges that are no larger than your couch! Yet any outdoor adventurer will appreciate the design and features that make it the ideal tent at altitude. The Eldorado weighs an astonishing 4 pounds, 1 ounce, yet rolls up small enough to fit into the side pocket of many internal frame packs. Two poles crisscross inside the single tent wall, eliminating hard-to-thread sleeves, and bending naturally into the eaves of the roof. The result is maximum strength and more headroom per square foot of floor space than any other tent. The single piece bathtub floor has no seams. The door toggles to the side when open. The no-see-um net door is on the interior to prevent the massive ice build-up which occurs on exterior net doors of other brands in winter. Each Eldorado comes with two weatherproof zippered vents at the very peak of the tent to draw out rising moist air. In addition, a hooded vent over the door and a unique covered vent at the bottom of the door provide flow-through ventilation, even in poor weather. Two net pockets hold odds and ends, and it is fully seam taped. Sets up easily in under two minutes. (Desc. courtesy Bibler) Please note: Bibler is distributed by Black Diamond. Tents will have either a Bibler logo or a Black Diamond logo. There is no difference between the actual tents, just a logo difference.

FEATURES

4lb 2-person single wall
Small footprint
ToddTex trilaminate waterproof/breathable fabric
SPECIFICATIONS

Model: Eldorado
Designer: Bibler
Floor Space: 31 sq. ft.
Tent Weight: 5 lbs. 1 oz.
Minimum Weight: 4 lbs. 1 oz.
Fast Pack Weight: 4 lbs. 1 oz.
Poles: 2 Easton Aluminum
Material: ToddTex trilaminate
Length: 87in.
Width: 51in.
Height: 43in.
Usage: Four Season (Mountaineering)

Weight, Tent and Poles: 4 lb 8 oz
Weight packaged: 5 lb 1oz
Weight vestibule: 1 lb 6 oz
Weight groundcloth: 10.6 oz
Size: 87 x 51 x 43
Floor Area: 30.8 sq ft
Packed size: 7 x 19 in.
Optional vestibule: 9 sq ft
Freestanding
2 Poles
1 Door
Available in yellow
Bibler Fitzroy – Bibler’s strongest tent, heavier than Eldorado, but roomier
Bibler's strongest tent ever! Based on the high performance Bombshelter, the Fitzroy is sought after by both mountaineers and backpackers for its strength and roominess. At only 6 lbs., it gives the stability of a four-pole, Easton 7075 aluminum frame with plenty of room for two people and gear. There are no pole sleeves to thread, so set-up takes only seconds. Lighter than other four-season tents in its size range, the Fitzroy has more headroom and more usable floor space. The two door design ensures excellent ventilation in summer plus easy access, especially for winter camping. The tops of both doors have pole supported awnings covering zippered vents, while the bottom can be unzipped for controlled cross-ventilation, even in the worst conditions. Bibler's innovative three point equalizing guyline stakes out each side in strong wind. Mesh pockets inside for storage. Fully seam-taped.(Desc. courtesy Bibler) Please note: Bibler is distributed by Black Diamond. Tents will have either a Bibler logo or a Black Diamond logo. There is no difference between the actual tents, just a logo difference.
FEATURES
6lb 1oz. 2-person single wall
Extremely strong 4 pole design
ToddTex trilaminate waterproof/breathable fabric
SPECIFICATIONS

Model: Fitzroy
Designer: Bibler
Floor Space: 38 sq. ft.
Tent Weight: 6lbs. 1 oz.
Minimum Weight: 6lbs. 1 oz.
Fast Pack Weight: 6lbs. 1 oz.
Poles: 4 Easton Aluminum
Material: ToddTex trilaminate
Length: 93in.
Width: 44-60in.
Height: 40in.
Usage: Four Season (Mountaineering)

[Steven Nelson]

Mountainwalker –

Hopefully you had a chance to read over the rest of the thread and have a better sense of what people have been recommending.

Most of us are aware of the shelters whose specs you posted, so what would be most useful to help out would be additional details on how you want to use your tent: how many people and how much space you'd prefer, on what style of trips (e.g., short snowshoe hikes in or long ski tours; using a pack or pulk), and in what locations and conditions.

Let us know, and I'm sure you'll get good, relevant advice and recommendations.

[Jon Rhoderick]

Check out Rab summit and Nemo gogo as well, similar tents, also black diamond tents are going to be alot cheaper and quite light as well.

[Ethan A.]

For some reason I haven't been getting my alerts or got sporadic ones, so sorry I haven't replied earlier. In any case, I not only read the entire thread on the flight over to the E Coast last week, but highlighted the relevant info. I'm going to dig into my notes and post the few models I know on the short list. I posted all the specs above to save anyone any trouble looking anything up. Also in the specs I threw in some helpful review comments for anyone else researching these after me.

Uses:

# PEOPLE: 2 – me, 6 ft tall, my wife, 5 ft 6 in.(and when a friend joins me instead of my wife, could be 2 6 ft guys)

ROOM/SIZE: Enough to weather a storm without going crazy – enough to sit up. In an ideal world it would be nice if the tent could fit 3 for just a little weight penalty, for the extra space and for shelter for 3 in an emergency (though used for 2 people regularly. Vestibule preferred but not necessary if interior space big enough.

TYPE OF TRIPS: Most common use would be 2-3 day weekend snowshoe and ski trips with a pack, and while not commmon, could also see pulk use in some situations.

LOCATIONS: Mostly Northern California and NW U.S.; More rarely in New England/N.E. U.S.

SEASON: All winter, from late fall through early spring; Other seasons – higher elevation backpacking trips for more ambitious summits (though not alpinism with heavy mountaineering gear). Routes with high exposed windy camps I could see taking this same tent. [for summer we'll be picking up a tarp or tarp tent and retiring our Sierra Designs Meteor Light for car camping (it's not light but is a good design with tons of interior space and a roomy vestibule).

I know I want a lot out of this winter tent, but I'd prefer 1 winter tent to cover our most common uses.

At a future date if we could use a second winter tent and could justify the purchase with enough trips, we'd go for it. Right now, between work and family commitments, very frequent and longer trips aren't in the cards. But there's plenty of great weekend to long weekend trips right in our backyard now, and if I want my wife, who is a great sport but grew up a flatlander in New Orleans, to continue her love affair with the mountains, I'll tolerate a little extra weight to keep us comfortable.

I'm sure this has been discussed on BPL, but I had to gear my wife up from scratch, and choosing good, appropriate gear for her and for both of us has been a major factor in her enjoying outdoor trips.

[Roger Caffin]

You're tall, over 6', and there are two of you.
This is to be used in the winter in the snow.
It has to withstand wind and storms.
It has to have enough room inside for 'living'.
You don't want it too heavy.

Basically, you have just described a 3-pole double-skin tunnel tent. It's as simple as that. (NOT a 2-pole one.)
You could use a geodesic dome tent (5+ poles), but these are quite heavy, so I'll skip those. They may be realistic for 3-4 people.

Sources? Try Hilleberg and the Macpac Olympus (from New Zealand). The latter could be described as the Gold Standard of mountain tents – ever see bad New Zealand weather? Ugh! There are some other European winter tents which might suit, but the USA manufacturers are not in this market.

Cheers

[Ethan A.]

Thanks Roger. The Jannu and another Hillerberg are on my shortlist. I'm going to post final contenders from my notes on the thread along with a few questions as soon as I get a chance later today. Right now we're navigating a snowstorm in the treacherous canyons of Greenwich Village, Manhattan.

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