Why are you not a Member of BPL?

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

I got into UL Backpacking initially because I couldn't afford most of the gear otherwise, so your idea that all BPL visitors are middle class Americans who throw away $25 a month without thinking about it, is false. I actually have to meticulously save every last penny I spend on backpacking and end up going into the MYOG realm just to afford things at all and while I may not be a huge majority in that, I know I'm not the only one. The type of people you are dealing with are up to their eyeballs in overspending and indulgence, trying to have everything their parents took years to earn. I don't believe that's not a proper assessment of the average UL backpacker at all. For me that $25 right now is sitting in a jar waiting for it to be $150 so I can make one big purchase order of material to make my husband and I quilts and a solo shelter for me. I can't afford to spend it on a membership.

[adam spates]

@spelt….. my thoughts were that free gear would entice people to pay $25 anually to be in 12 drawings a year for gear.

@Joslyn….I said $2 a month…not $25….also I said in an earlier post that I'm sure there are some who just outright can't afford it. But again I think most can.

[Jeremy Pendrey]

For those who think the membership, life or annual, is expensive, let me throw out a suggestion: Write an article. You can opt to get a gift certificate in lieu of cash and can use it to pay for your membership. It's how I paid for mine. I realize not everyone is a writer, but for those so inclined, it's a good method, and allows you to contribute to the overall discussion with your article. (Note: I haven't written an article since the gear shop closed, so not sure if they are still giving gift certificates for articles. This only applies if they are.)

[spelt with a t]

Now see, I didn't even know you could do that b/c I've only accessed articles through their topic pages and the submission info is only linked on the main page of the article section.

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

Ok I just read that wrong…

[Addie Bedford]

I'm still happy to trade subscriptions for good writing. Submit proposals here.

[A. B.]

Interesting mentality that someone should give up $25 just because they can afford it. If I'm going to do that I would rather donate to a nonprofit.

Ryan Jordan implies this makes me a free loading Marxist which is an odd statement coming from someone looking for a handout.

Again, I'm just here for the forums. If they can't afford to keep the forums free then they can change their business model.

[Adam Wallace]

I no longer see the value in becoming a member, maybe for beginners, but the experienced have moved on.

[Ron D]

The comments in this thread have been interesting, particularly the large number of ones that see no value in a membership. I've been a member for years and have always considered it to be one of the best investments I've made. The knowledge I've gotten out of BPL (both articles and forums) has been the key to making my time in the mountains a pleasure again. The forums are part of BPL and BPL is a business not a non-profit or club. They go together and I don't see anything that approaches the quality of BPL anywhere else on the internet. I do not believe that it is easily and quickly replaceable, if you lose BPL you lose the forums as they currently exist. I believe that if you are receiving the type of value BPL offers us then you should pay a fair price which is why I have just upgraded to a lifetime membership. It's easy to take a free ride on the internet, but if everyone does it you generally get what you pay for. On a separate note I use a fairly restricted alternate email for BPL and have never had it sold commercially over the years I've been a member.

[Tony Wong]

Addie,

Just wanted to follow up on this.

Know that there has been a lot of things going on at BPL behind the scenes with the shop closing.

However, was there any word from Ryan or anyone else regarding the number issues and suggestions that came up in this thread?

I have seen that there have been some changes and reorganization of the forum, but can anyone tell us a little aobut future plans for BPL?

-Tony

[Addie Bedford]

Because I have a tendency to overshare. I can tell you with absolute certainty the following things:

1.) Ryan's really excited about being a bigger part of BPL (and I'm excited for that too), and being more visible on the public side of the site.
2.) We're making some changes to the way things are structured on the back end (and I can't say more without risking divulging more than I'm comfortable sharing without explicit permission).
3.) We really want to improve upon the platform of the website but are finding that the budgetary constraints of a HUGE amount of forum bandwidth makes that tricky/expensive.
4.) I'm working on developing a faster turn-around for reviews (there's a three-month lag built into my publishing schedule) while cultivating even better content for each week, and making past gems easier to locate.

I have this forum flagged for follow-up, and once there's more face-to-face time with the big boss man, we hope to hammer out some specific strategies to revisit past commitments and make new ones with a framework for seeing them through. I know this is vague, and I'm sorry that I can't be more specific – better in trouble with you than in trouble with the signer of my paychecks though!

Ryan's off on a Wilderness Trekking School trek, so I'm flying solo(ish) for the week. Bear with us and thanks for your patience – I dearly hope not to try it overmuch.
Addie

[j lan]

I originally became a member because of member sales in the BPL shop which was an incredible shop. RIP. I did not renew when my membership lapsed, but am strong considering MLIFE if I know that the forums are not in risk of closing.

One option to consider is closing off the forums to members (or at least certain portions such as gear swap) and reducing the member price with allowance for paypal payment of member fees.

One thing i really appreciate about the forums and site is the minimalism of the software and open/low moderation feel of the forums. I know many people are calling for PHPbb and flashy forum software, but the lack of smileys/green text/sigs is one of the main reasons I want to support this forum. Maybe just a little code update for auto recognizing links?

Thanks to all the BPL staff for being level headed and going out of their way to help.

J

[Kattt]

"One thing i really appreciate about the forums and site is the minimalism of the software and open/low moderation feel of the forums. I know many people are calling for PHPbb and flashy forum software, but the lack of smileys/green text/sigs is one of the main reasons I want to support this forum. Maybe just a little code update for auto recognizing links?"

+1 on all of that.

[Ken Thompson]

"One thing i really appreciate about the forums and site is the minimalism of the software and open/low moderation feel of the forums. I know many people are calling for PHPbb and flashy forum software, but the lack of smileys/green text/sigs is one of the main reasons I want to support this forum. Maybe just a little code update for auto recognizing links?"

+2 on all of that.

[Travis Leanna]

"One thing i really appreciate about the forums and site is the minimalism of the software and open/low moderation feel of the forums. I know many people are calling for PHPbb and flashy forum software, but the lack of smileys/green text/sigs is one of the main reasons I want to support this forum. Maybe just a little code update for auto recognizing links?"

+3 on all of that.

[Addie Bedford]

Just culled this forum and a series of emails between me and Tony to provide Ryan with a bullet list of the pertinent points behind folks not seeing value in membership.

Not sure where it goes from here, but our meeting yesterday was helpful, encouraging, and productive. Thanks for the insights and patience!
Addie

[Tony Wong]

Addie,

Thank you for taking the time to let all of us know what is going on and that all our concerns are being hear vs. falling upon deaf ears.

Think there were a lot of good suggestions from people here and leveraging the intelligence of all the BPL members will hopefully help BPL move forward in a better direction.

I really that not everyone can be made happy and that change is hard, people will be disappointed while others will be welcoming the changes.

Just like lightweight gear, change is always coming and it will be great to see what the future holds for BPL.

Good luck and please let us know what comes of it all.

P.S. Did you also grab some of the suggestion in the BPL members area? There were one or two threads there that also had some ideas that Ryan might want to see.

-Tony

[Ryan Jordan]

Just following up:

I have reviewed what Addie put together from this forum. A lot of fantastic feedback, and special kudos to Tony for helping drive this discussion.

We have opened up threads in the MLIFE Strategic Planning Forums related to the issues brought up in this one. We are in the midst of our fall strategic planning process for 2012 and this is a big part of it.

We are considering a variety of ways to:

a. Ensure BPL's long term sustainability;
b. Improve benefits for Members

Thanks for your patience as we work through this, and I for one, am very excited about BPL's prospects for refocusing our energies into reinforcing our online presence and services for BPL Members.

Best,
Ryan

[Todd Hein]

I've seen this come up in this forum and I wanted to reiterate that many (most?) of the cottage (and non-cottage) manufacturers might want (and pay for) a mall-like structure on this website. They could pay or maybe give BPL a slice of the gross for use of this forum. People could review gear, offer suggestions for improvements, etc. right on the site. There could be side by side comparison options and other shopping tools. This action would have the potential of bringing a lot of backpacking gear information under "one roof".

[David Ure]

I like that idea Todd!

[chris kersten]

I was a member for my first year but after that, I didn't renew because I am in to fishing and other hobbies during the summer and rarely read anything backpacking because it makes me miss it. I like the idea of a smaller monthly membership option. I would rather pay $5 a month for 3 or 4 months and you still get the same amount and I feel like I am using my money when I need it and not feel like I wasted it.

[James DeMonaco]

I joined because I wanted to support a great community. I know that its more supporting to share information, which I try and do as much as I can, but some times it takes a little money as well.

For me, the membership has been worth it. I've learned SO much about backpacking, camping, fishing, gear, techniques, geography, ultra-light backpacking, home-made gear, cottage industries, etc since I became a member. Obviously you can learn about almost all of this from the forums for free, but I didn't feel right just using leeching the service and experience of others.

I do like Todd's idea of replacing the old BPL shop with a mall of items from all the cottage industries that are part of this community, that would be great! It gets more traffic for BPL, they get to retain a shop (and possibly sell small things here and there if they want), they don't have to spend as much time or resources on the shop as it is mostly handled through the cottage shops, cottage shops get more attention and recognition, product reviews can be more centralized and easier to find, and boosts cottage shops so that they don't die out so easy and are able to compete with the larger companies.

I think its a win/win and a natural relationship between the two that should definitely happen.

I also think that it would be great if you got some swag for buying a membership. Maybe a sticker or something for a year membership and a patch or something with a lifetime membership. Just an idea (that has probably already been stated previously in this long thread)

[Ross P Hemphill]

Very glad to've noticed this question being asked. I've been a bit concerned about BPL lately. (The front page change is some part of that.) I think that the relevant people would be more likely to see some important things if there was an obvious way to easily see official BPL requests for input. (PS Search engine still stucks!)(Whoops, this isn't an entirely "official" thread!")

1. Anywho, I am not a Member because I have been very broke for a while. I have been a Member in the past, and intend to rejoin in the future.. (But, I wish I knew when the cashflow will stop sucking so hard.)

2. There's nothing of the top of my head that BPL would have to do to regain me as a member. The next paragraph might be an answer to the question, if the issue was something other than poverty.

I should probably mention that the articles I like best are also the least numerous. These would be from Technology, People, Gear Lists, and Techniques. (I prefer Solid content with lasting value, and recognize that such articles can't necessarily be as common as simpler ones. However, the distribution still feel a bit screwey to me. (Only 33 People articles? Are they really that unpopular?))

Well, I'll quit my blathering, now. Thanks a bunch! Stick around BPL!

Oh, and HECK YEAH on the cottage company mall idea! Would be particularly helpful for small/new/no-web-presence/obscure shops to be visible to people without the time or interest to hang out on the forums all the time. It should be clarified whether a company would have to actually "manufacture" something, or if just reselling/retailing would fly.

[Ross P Hemphill]

"One thing i really appreciate about the forums and site is the minimalism of the software and open/low moderation feel of the forums. I know many people are calling for PHPbb and flashy forum software, but the lack of smileys/green text/sigs is one of the main reasons I want to support this forum. Maybe just a little code update for auto recognizing links?"

+4(?) Almost totally agree. Please, please… let BPL retain (or gain) some sense of aesthetics and design, and not turn into "the rest of the internet!" (I remember when most web sites/pages were personal and/or academic, and many had terrrible design… but I still feel that was way less annoying than how things are now.)

[Bryce]

I joined because that great "free" forum I used and abused for months of knowledge before gear purchases wouldn't of been there if it were for members who support the forums financially and with their knowledge. Of course there are personal financial hardships that prevent some from giving back, but for the others, I hope they realize it's not "free" in the slightest and I hope they have a backup "free" forum to go to with all this UL/SUL/XUL knowledge because I sure as heck haven't found the same knowledge and like-minded people anywhere else, haha.

I'm looking forward to some of the changes the admins are cooking up. I generally go straight to the Gear Swap and Gear Deal sections to check things out (I'm a gear wh_re!), then to recent threads. I hardly ever go to the main page. If those three pages were incorporated to an RSS feed or someone on the front page that'd draw me there more (and non-members too), we might get more traffic and members. GL!

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