3 Season Gear List for relativly new ultraliter

only planing on bringing the bivy during bug season and for really bad weather. I will see how it goes as my experience with a tarp increases. If I discover I don't need it that would be great. Good point on the bandana. I will take a look and probably cut out the majority of my gauze.

What is Leuko Tape?

"And then add some duct tape to your poles before you head out, and it's weight NOT carried in your pack."

Why? Or do you mean that it would be left home, along with the poles?

I mean, weight in the pack is better than the same weight carried in the hands. Maybe not that big difference than the weight carried in legs vs. weight in the pack but still the same idea.

I think the original first aid list was missing diarrhea medication which is not that heavy addition. I think it is even more important to have it than ibuprofen IMO as diarrhea has the possibility to make things a lot worse if you happen to get it (soil your clothes / sleeping bag -> loss of insulation or loss of liquids -> dehydration). Of course it's better to prevent it in the first place with proper hygine, but I still have managed to get one in the woods. Rather would have the medication than not if it happens again.

Good point. I thought I had some but your right it is missing. Definftly want that. I agree I hate having stuff on my poles.

"I don't carry or use trekking poles, thus their weight is zero – same as toilet paper."

Neither did I until I was 60. TP is another story. Attaining that higher level of consciousness is something I fear will always remain beyond my reach.

"And – I have never had to clean up and deal with someone else's trekking poles!"

Not sure what you're getting at here, but it sounds profound. Whatever the case, anything that allows you to spend more time making sure your TP free hands and butt are clean can't be a bad thing. ;-]

"Also it would be fun to see Mike go without TP in the lower Colorado desert, where some days all you can find is gritty sand, beavertails, jumping cholla, or a greasewood branch :)"

+1 Backcountry entertainment at its finest!

"What is Leuko Tape?"

It is athletic tape. Good for blisters, sprains, etc.

A reply to a post above:

---

I live near a national park, and I am one of the VERY few people who make an effort to clean up other peoples trash. And this means I clean up other peoples used toilet paper. It's disgusting! I refuse to just let that stuff sit there as litter. I either burn it or carry it out, and it's an awful process.

It makes my heart sink, because I lose all faith in my fellow man. It is lack of education, nothing more.

And – it's made me a bit of a zealot.

– also – I have camped all over the desert southwest, and I don't take TP, and I do just fine. There are always smooth rocks. It can be done.

peace,
Mike C!

I live near a national park, and I am one of the VERY few people who make an effort to clean up other peoples trash. And this means I clean up other peoples used toilet paper. It's disgusting! I refuse to just let that stuff sit there as litter. I either burn it or carry it out, and it's an awful process.

It makes my heart sink, because I lose all faith in my fellow man. It is lack of education, nothing more.

---

I know, its terrible.

Unless someone has a backcountry accident where their hand falls off, TP free works just about the same everywhere.
The rocks/grass/sticks/moss/etc aren't for finishing the job, they just get the bigger stuff.
soap, water, and hand are the tools for getting clean.

I'm really glad you take the effort and make the parks better for all of us. I use biodegradable toilet paper and bury it as well is this correct? That way their is nothing left for others to find.

"I live near a national park, and I am one of the VERY few people who make an effort to clean up other peoples trash. And this means I clean up other peoples used toilet paper. It's disgusting! I refuse to just let that stuff sit there as litter. I either burn it or carry it out, and it's an awful process."

Good on ya, Mike. I'll deal with other people's TP intermittently, but I've got a ways to go to match you. I salute you.

"It makes my heart sink, because I lose all faith in my fellow man. It is lack of education, nothing more."

+1 Except that I think it more than just ignorance. IMO, there are a lot of folks out there who just don't give a rat's ass. You could educate them until the cows come home and in the end they'd just yawn, say, "whatevah", and wander off to continue their disgusting behavior.

"And – it's made me a bit of a zealot."

Again, I empathize, but I think your zealotry, however well intentioned, turns a lot of people off. If you could bring yourself to concede that there are methods of using TP that are at least acceptable, if not optimal in your opinion, I think you would keep a lot larger audience around to work on more subtly over time. Instead a lot of folks dismiss you as, well, a zealot and walk away. You still wouldn't convert them all, but I think you'd end up with more converts than you have now. My 2 cents.

Peace,

Tom K.

"I use biodegradable toilet paper and bury it as well is this correct?"

If you use toilet paper, there are two better methods. One is to burn the used TP in the cat hole. When there is nothing left but a pinch of ash, then that is approaching biodegradable. The other method is to bag it and carry it out. Of course that simply moves the problem to some civilized place.

–B.G.–

Here's an article on the topic of NON-toilet paper expeditions.

LINK:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/toilet_paper_free.html

(updated link above)

I might be a zealot, but I worked hard to make this article funny and un-intimidating.

(sorry, I hope I didn't hy-jack this thread)

Not at all Mike. Informative as always and much appreciated at least by this novice.

Also your link says it is broken.

A real zealot rarely recognizes their own status as one.

"I might be a zealot, but I worked hard to make this article funny and un-intimidating."

It's not the article so much as many of your posts on the subject, judging from some of the responses, mine included. I think the article is great and, if you continued in that spirit in your posts, you would get a lot more people to consider your ideas more closely. Again, my 2 cents only.

Ok so I found the article and was intrigued. My goal is to bring my TP with me as backup for the next few trips but do without until I break my self of this civilized stigma we all seem to have.

"One is to burn the used TP in the cat hole. When there is nothing left but a pinch of ash, then that is approaching biodegradable."

This has been SOP for me for the last 3 decades plus. No muss, no fuss, no bother.

Most the places I go do not allow fires because they are very dry and there is a high risk of forest fire so burning is not an option. Just have to wrap my mind around "natural TP"

A real zealot wouldn't use it at home either…

Actually, I like Mike's zealous attitude. Always know what he is going to say. It works great for some people.

@Ken Thompson: That makes me a zealot as I've sworn the stuff off at home in favor of the bidet. For those members of the family who aren't so inclined, we buy the recycled stuff. When I think about how we're destroying old-growth forests to make Charmin and other such ultra-soft tp for pampered a-r-s-e-s (can't believe this word is being censored!), it makes my blood boil.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/science/earth/26charmin.html?_r=2

GG Murmer 7.9 oz
8×10 Oware cuben tarp w/ 50 guyline 8.5
Western Mountaineering Highlite sleeping bag 16

GG Nightlite Torso Pad 2.4
GG Polycryo Ground Cloth 1.6
10 GG Ti Stakes 2
2 1L Plat (one with squirt top) 1.76
Razor blade in cardboard sleeve 0.14
FB Cozie 1.25

Stuff sack for misc. 0.38
GSI Lexan Long spoon 0.38
Storm match and dryer lint in Ziploc 0.88
Sun Screen (in dropper bottle) 0.5
Dr. Bronners and DEET (in dropper bottles) .38
Aqua Mira (in dropper bottles) 1.13
Finger brush and dropper bottle of tooth powder 0.25

Stuff Sack for cooking stuff 0.5
Gram Cracker Esbit Stove and Caldera Cone 2.05
Snow Peak 600 w/ minibll designs lid 3.25

Stuff Sack for Cloths 0.38
Possum Down Beanie 1
Possum Down Socks 2.75
Possum Down Gloves 1.38
Montbell ExLight Down Jacket 5.5
O2 Rain Jacket w/ hood 4.5

Total = 4.29 lbs

Also carrying a photon micro light and a Silva ranger compass in my pocket along with my map, sunglasses, and buff.

I am heading to COE Friday night and will be back late Sunday with a full report on how things work out.

Justin,

A question for you; in what temperatures do you plan on using your "3 Season Gear List"?

I don't know what environments you plan on using your sleeping bag so I might worry that you are going to be cold in the early and late seasons. I bivy hunt in early March and well into big game season in November. The temperatures where I am dip down to about 10 degrees F during those time frames. Your bag is rated for +35 so that would be my only concern. I know WM can be a bit conservative with their ratings but I would not want to bet on a 25 degree margin.

I guess the real question is whether your gear meets YOUR 3 season requirements.

Happy trails!

Luckily I sleep very warm and with the combination of my insulating jacket and the addition of insulating pants if the weather requires should keep me quite warm. So far I have used the bag below freezing and I was actually a little too warm. Also where I am we rarely see temperatures that get below the 20's so 10F is not a huge concern. I plan on fitting my trips around the time of year.