Big Sky shelters — who has ordered? who got their’s?

[Denis Hazlewood]

Thanks be to "Crazy Pete". I really like the idea of non-skid on the pad. Works anywhere you light. But given the delicacy of the Evolution silnylon floor I think I'll coat the bottom of the floor to protect my investment.
Anyone else get their Big Sky tent? It's still 2 days till Christmas. I'm stuck on the ground at LAX. Phoenix is fogged in and here we sit. Thanks to my Palm Treo I've got BPL to entertain me.
red leader out

[EndoftheTrail]

Denis:

That's a lot of floor to coat, and doesn't provide much protection at all. If there're things (think cactus or maybe even pine) sharp enough to poke through the floor, a coating on the inside won't help. And if you coat both inside and out, then you're looking at hours of work, added weight, plus the potential problem of dirt and debris sticking to the outside of your floor all the time — making tent cleaning a pain. After-market coatings also tend to break down faster — making for a very unsightly tent after just a few years.

A much better way to protect your ultra thin and light tent floor:

1. Always devote an extra minute or two to examine your campsite thoroughly, before plunking down your tent.

2. Use a groundsheet between the tent floor and the ground itself. This will help keep the tent floor cleaner and dryer — and provide some protection against abrasion. 2-mil plastic sheeting works well, as does Tyvek.

Otherwise, I would just leave the tent floor alone — or at most paint a few strips across to minimize pad sliding.

[Miguel Arboleda]

then use it like a knife as if you were cutting the sealant off the nylon.

Hi Vick, Good solution, since I can't find odorless mineral spirits anywhere here in japan. I'm just unclear about what the purpose of cutting the sealant off is…

Crazy Pete… great alternative! Not only is it more versatile in many ways, but it also saves weight…

[Daniel Zimmerman]

Well, he finally got back to me, and after another couple of emails it arrived this morning.

It's a beautiful tent, and I can't wait to try it out. My total waiting time was over 4 months, and time since the promised Oct 1 delivery was 86 days. For those of you still waiting, I wish you a happy holidays and god speed…

Daniel

[Chuck Shugart]

My son arrived home from university on Dec. 22, 06. I was glad to see him but I think this time I might have been gladder to see my box from Big Sky that he brought. Set it up in the living room without delay and am in complete agreement with everyone about the quality of this tent. Wow. Much attention to detail, well made and the sewing looks good. Everything about it reflects attention to keeping it as light as possible; clips, tabs, grommets, zippers, and of course fabric look to be the lightest that will still be substantial enough to do the job. I didn't want to post this until I got a chance to take it for a test drive, so the day after Christmas I took it out behind the ponds on our farm (see picture) to see just how much condensation would accumulate on the fly at 0 degrees Farenheight with one person sleeping in it. I slept with both vents wide open and both vestibules shut. The weather was very calm, and there was no new snow that night. Temperature dipped to minus 2. I slept like a baby and the tent passed with flying colors. There was some accumulation of frost on the inside by morning but not what I would call a heavy coating and the mesh was far enough separated from the fly that my sleeping bag showed no signs of having contacted the frost while I was sleeping. It was bone dry. The zippers worked very well in those cold conditions, no hang-ups at all, on both the inner tent and outer fly. Vents weren't to hard to operate either. I think I might carry a few extra stakes on a longer excursion just in case I needed to secure it a bit better in some serious wind. So far it gets a 5 out of 5 from me.

[Denis Hazlewood]

Chuck,
Congrats on your new Evolution. At this moment I'm sitting in the Las Vegas airport waiting for my flight to San Francisco. It's 70°F here. I'm impressed by your sleeping out at -2. Is that C or F? I feel like a wuss wanting to wait for dry weather to try my 2P.

Oh, glad your son made it from Bozeman OK.

redleader

[Chuck Shugart]

Dennis,
That's minus 2 farenheight. We don't see above freezing around here much for a couple of months. 70 degrees F where you are sounds pretty nice.
Anyway, On the floor issue, I have coated a couple of my other sil nylon tent floors with a silicon/oderless mineral spirits slurry. I think it really improves the waterproofness, but it really heavies them up. It added 6 ounces to my Tarptent Squall (coated it inside and out. Wouldn't do that again). I use a piece of Kite Tyvec under all my tents to protect the floor. It's only a few ounces, is lighter than the regular building grade Tyvec, and virtually eliminates tiny punctures if you're careful.
Happy New Year!

[Brett .]

Chuck, what is the weight of your full tent set please? Thank you.

[Chuck Shugart]

Brett,
I've got a couple of options when it comes to the weight of my whole tent set. I ordered it with both CF and aluminum poles. The CF poles are about 4.8 oz. lighter than aluminum. I also made a stuff sack out of lighter material because I didn't think the sack supplied with the tent needed all the compression straps and extra fabric to secure them. My stuff sack is 1.3 oz. lighter than the one supplied with the tent. I cut a piece of kite Tyvec 78 inches long, 48 inches wide at the top and 42 inches wide at the bottom. It weighs 3.5 oz. (Even if you buy a polycro groundsheet from Gossamer Gear at 1.5 oz. you still only gain 2 oz. with the Tyvec and much more protection for the floor of your tent. With the 1.3 I saved on the stuff sack, it's almost a break even. I weighed all this stuff on my non digital postal scale which I figure is acurate to within about 2 grams. (It weighs in grams, so I had to convert to ounces. Hope I got the math right.) So I'll list minimum weight and bomber weight.
Minimum weight:
Tent and fly: 38.2 oz.
CF poles: 7.6 oz.
Stuff sack (mine): .4 oz.
6-6 in. titanium tent stakes: 2.0 oz. (Minimum amount of stakes necessary to set up with fly)
Tyvec ground sheet: 3.5 oz.
Total weight: 51.7 oz. (3lbs 3.7 oz.)

Bomber weight:
Tent and fly: 38.2 oz
Aluminum poles: 12.3 oz
Stuff sack supplied by Big Sky: 1.8 oz.
12-6 in. titanium stakes: 4.3 oz
Tyvec ground sheet: 3.5 oz.
Total weight: 60.1 oz. (3lbs. 12.1 oz.)

I understand that the CF poles are supposed to be a little more flimsy, so depending on what conditions I am planning on hiking in, I can choose either set of poles, and how many stakes to bring. I think you can't go wrong having a few extra stakes to help secure things in windy conditions.
Hope that answers your question.

[Brad Russell]

Anybody else got tents? I contacted Bob after I heard a few had been getting tents, we discussed options and I got the idea my tent was iminent. That was the begining of December. I sent Bob an e-mail last week inquiring why others who ordered after me were getting tents and I had not seen mine but he has not responded. Not even the "were in asia" message. 13 months is getting a little ridiculous.

Thanks!

Brad

[Denis Hazlewood]

How's this for a new folkism? Why that %@#??&* is "No better than Bob's promise".

[EndoftheTrail]

Responding to Brad Rusell:

Bob Molen hasn't posted in any forum in the last year or so; however, rest assured that he checks all the forums very diligently.

On quite a few occasions, folks who got so exasperated by Bob Molen tht they posted publically that they had (or were going to) file complaints with their credit card companies, the BBB, etc. — all got really quick (meaning same day) responses from Bob!

This is why this character is dishonest. Reading others' posts, the pattern is pretty consistent: deal with him decently (as you have) and he takes advantage of you and you fall to the back of the line. But kick his balls and he'll cough up a tent — or at least a refund — for you!

I have no beef with this guy. I was actually one of the earlier buyers. I paid him in August 2005 for a September deliver date that didn't happen (obviously). So when he advertised in Dec 2005 about a discount to all who prepay — and I saw the enthusiastic response from people on all the forums — I decided that was my one good chance to get my money back. Bob Moelen used to return my emails within the same day — or the next day at the latest (we must have exchanged 50-60 emails leading to my purchase). But when I asked for my refund, I heard nothing back from him for days — until I asked for him publically on the forum. I then got an immediate email from him saying that he will process my refund. Again, this guy only responds to pressure and threats.

[Brett .]

..for the detailed info on the tent. I went ahead and bought a BlackDiamond FirstLight which I should get in a few days. I couldn't wait for a pie in the SKY tent. But Im glad you have yours and are happy with it!

[Bill Nitzberg]

Just an update…

R. Molen at Big Sky International got back to me in December 2006; he apologized for the delays and offered to fulfill my order with an updated 2P 2D2V rev E (with pole clips) — I accepted the upgrade.

I received the tent just a few days later in December and am very happy with it.

[larry savage]

I see Backpacker has given Big Sky an editor's choice award, somehow they got their hands on three of them.

[Brad Russell]

Ordered approx. 12/27/05
Received 2/27/2007
2P 2D2V Marigold with clips and aluminum poles.

Looks great! Can't wait to try it! Wish I'd had it for my trip to Gannett Peak last August – 8 months after I ordered.

Brad

[Terry Morris]

Has Big Sky gotten organized enough to fill orders in a timely fashion yet? After looking at all the reviews I could find of every light weight tent I decided that I would really like to get a light weighr double walled tent. The Evolution P seemed to be the end of my quest. But there is always a hitch to any decision isn't there, and after reading an hours worth of posts from very frustrated customers, on this and the previous thread, I'm thinking that I'm insane for still even thinking about this tent ( Evolution 1P)/

But the last page on this thread sounds fairly calm, bubbly almost. Did everybody get their Big Sky tents, or perhaps you all gave up found something even better?

I have been praying for quite a while that the double walled tent makers would start using lighter weigth fabrics for the fly. I've used a Clip Flash Lite ( Sierra Designs) for years and the fly seems to account for most of the weight. A silnylon fly would really help. It seems that Big Sky may have been the first to do this(?) and that's what got my attention. Are they the only one who has come up with this design?

I also have some concerns about rain water getting into the Evolution 1P while getting in and out of the tent, as was expressed by one of the gear reviewers on BackPackGear.org. This is an issue for me with all side entry tents. It seems messy – you are climbing in on top of the middle of your sleeping arrangements. I think I'd prefer this set-up – Ultralight fly plus mesh inner tent – with a FRONT access and vestible. Is there anything out there like this that comes close to this weight?

[Shawn Basil]

You ask if folks have gotten their tents. Some have. It looks like many who have ordered in the last 3-6 months HAVE gotten theirs, while many others who ordered a year ago have not.

Of course the only reason I can say this is from those who have posted on this and a number of other forums. The overall industry seems to want to ask Bob Molen directly. His response is 'OF COURSE they're being delivered on time" and I imagine he will insist there was never a problem. Why any one would trust him at this point is beyond me. He has a track record of saying "just a little longer" way too many times to too many people for my trust.

[Terry Morris]

Thanks Shawn, your point is well taken. It has been my experience that people don't ever seem to change their ways in doing business. The last thing I want to deal with is my own rage at getting screwed!!

Soo.. I guess I am now looking for an alternative double-walled silnylon/mesh tent that is as lite as the Evolution 1P (2lb. 4oz.) I' have considered the Contrail or GG Squall, they are sharp looking well thought out tents and certainly lite enough, but I'm going to be doing some camping at about 32F. I just bought myself a super sweet new ultra light down bag, from Western Mountaineering and I don't want to even have to think about the possibilities of condensation and wet down.. Neither would I want to have to sleep in a bivy inside the tent. I noticed that a liner is now being sold for the double Rainbow, so it must have some condensation problems. At some point I plan to get a Contrail but not for this trip.

So my question is this: Are there any other super lite (close to 2lb). 1P double-walled tents on the market, preferably with a front rather than side access and vestible, and room to sit up w/o hitting one's head?

I've waded thru the sites of all the tent designers I know about, which isn't that many, and tent reviews too, but so far I've only found the single walled tents this light. In general it seems that the problem is that none of the double walled tent makers, except Big Sky, are designing tents using new lighter materials in the rain fly.

[Doug Johnson]

Heck yeah! Check out the Terra Nova Laser Competition and Laser Photon. I'm currently reviewing the Competition and it's a great solo tent!

http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/epages/terranova.storefront/46c92140007a332c27410a022f010563/Catalog/3

They just started importing to the U.S. if you're here. Worth looking into!

Doug

[Michelle M. Grissom]

"Again, this guy only responds to pressure and threats."

I've just scan read through this entire subject of about 120 posts about this corrupt individual and it's amazing that so many customers are believing what is essentially blind faith that Mr. Molen will deliver.

I would not hestitate to bring a lawsuit against Mr. Molen if I were ever to be in the position of being ripped off. Having a Lawyer call you speaks volumes. Maybe he needs to be sued a few times to get his act together.

Mr. Molen you are a crook.

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