Want To Do A MYOG Winter Tent

[Jason Delso]

Newton,

This has turned into a fun brain-storming session, and even though you originally were looking for new shelter designs, it seems there are many ways to attack the problem. So I've come up with another: a synthetic cozy for your foot box. It could slip right over the foot box of your existing quilt, sealing up the hole left by the drawstring, adding a bit of insulation, and moving the dew point further away from your feet to reduce condensation in the down (though I don't see you mentioning that that was an issue, it shouldn't hurt, right?).

But I think some down booties would actually be better, as they'd be more multipurpose. Just thinking out loud here.

Be excellent to each other,

Jason

[John Donewar]

Andy,

I was using a Ridgerest 20" x 72" x 5/8" ccf pad inside of my homemade Meteor bivy while I had my feet inside of the closed / drawstring style footbox of my topquilt.

Thanks for the link to the thread with the pictures of your MYOG booties. They're Rodeo Drive stylish. ;-)

Are yours the same color? ;-)

>>Also if you go the bomber hat route, be warned that they are LOUD. Any little movement of that shell fabric against your ears is like thunder all around your head.<<

I may use some 200 wt fleece on the inside of my hood / bomber hat to quiet the thunder.

Also I'll probably be carrying ear plugs on my next trip. Ten feet away in his own tent I could hear my hiking buddy 'Lazarus' snoring. :-(

Thanks again.

Party On,

Newton

[John Donewar]

@ Jerry,

Thank you so much for the quick response to my request.

What kind of insulation did you use? It seems to be in short supply in the market place as we speak. :-/

@ Jason,

You are right about the brainstorming session. One way or another I will be warm on the AT this September / October. :-)

There was no issue of condensation in the down. I use a top quilt with synthetic insulation.

There was however condesation under my tarp after I set it up even before I got into my bivy and under my quilt. :-0

Thanks to you both,

Party On,

Newton

[Jerry Adams]

I think I used 3 ounce Climashield from owfinc.com – they have something like that currently

Anything would do – the booties are small enough area that weight isn't that important

You could even use generic polyester insulation from local fabric store

[John Donewar]

Jerry,

I think I've got it covered then. I've got some leftovers of 3.7 oz Climashield Combat and some of the fabric store generic stuff also.

OWFInc. looks like the only place that has Climashield on hand these days.

Thanks.

Party On,

Newton

[Jerry Adams]

This is a good project for leftovers.

That's what mine are. The fabric was leftover from a tent and the insulation was leftover from a vest or top bag.

The previous version blew away in a windstorm. I hate to lose stuff and I hate to litter.

[Andrew Schriner]

Jerry I like the simplicity of yours. Probably just as warm and way easier to make.

I wonder if a little more insulation underneath (referring to the 5/8" CCF pad) would help. I suppose you're not short on ideas at this point!

>>Thanks for the link to the thread with the pictures of your MYOG booties. They're >>Rodeo Drive stylish. ;-)
>>
>>Are yours the same color? ;-)

Hey, a stylish lady in the outdoors is a happy lady in the outdoors, so she's more likely to be outdoors, which means I'm more likely to be outdoors. :)

Mine are hot pink. With butterflies.

[Jerry Adams]

I've made booties with CCF bottoms, and walked around on them, but it's easier to walk around in shoes or boots.

I'de rather just take my simple "tube" booties off, put on boots, do my business, put booties back on.

[John Donewar]

Andy,

Do you mean like these ;-)

>>I wonder if a little more insulation underneath (referring to the 5/8" CCF pad) would help.<<

I have considered upping the R-value a bit of my pad. I want to make changes but I don't want to make to many changes and not know what did the trick. I'll try one step at a time and make a few more trial runs before the weather warms up again down here.

>>Hey, a stylish lady in the outdoors is a happy lady in the outdoors, so she's more likely to be outdoors, which means I'm more likely to be outdoors. :)<<

Smart man!

Party On,

Newton

[Paul McLaughlin]

John – Your idea to pitch your current tarp and measure for the traingle you need is a good one. But I have an idea to go with it:
If you make your "triangle" so that it is actually two triangles, resulting in the center being further to the rear than the two sides (essentially a beak extended all the way to the ground), so that you are adding a triangular patch to the floor area of the tarp, you gain some flexibility in the height you can pitch the foot of the tarp, and thus some flexibility in ventilation. You can pitch it down tight to the ground to block as much wind as possible, or by pitching the foot of the tarp a little higher, and narrower, you will raise the point of the beak off the ground for more airflow on milder nights.

[John Donewar]

Paul,

I did a little impromptu Oragami and I see how your idea can work.

Now I need to work up the nerve to "trim" off the existing foot end of my tarp and add the "triangle" that it is actually two triangles to my tarp as the new foot end / wind break. {:-0

Thanks for the input.

Party On,

Newton

[John Donewar]

I did a Farmer's Almanac search for the actual temperatures that we endured while on our equipment shakedown. See below for the temps that we encountered.

Temperature
Minimum Temperature
23.0 °F
Mean Temperature
35.5 °F
Maximum Temperature
50.0 °F

The above temps were for Saturday, 1/22/2011. When I dug a little further I found that the Low for Friday, 1/21/2011 was 30 degrees. So I figure that we lost seven degrees between midnight Friday and say 4:30 or 5:00 am Saturday morning.

I know many of us hike in lower temperatures and more extreme conditions but this was a new "Low" for me. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

[Mike Hinsley]

I've played around a lot with tarp designs for UK not-summer weather since I tend to hike spring and autumn and avoid summer.

If you fit a simple triangle end to the tarp it will cut out a lot of the wind AND you can use a slightly shorter tarp as a result. For optimal use I would do the triangle as two doors closed by toggles and cord loops with tie-ups for other tarp configurations.

It's worth looking at the total math or shelter and sleep systems together since an inclosed space gives you a temperature differential and no windchill. Sometimes you save weight on a tarp and then spend it on insulation…

My last overnighter was with a bivvi and a beak/flying v tarp only. It was 35f and windy but I was warm enough. Just!

I've done a 1kg winter comfort twin-skin tent/tarp which is great for colder weather. Using mstly nylon rather than mesh for a very small coffin inner tent helps a lot with temperature retention and is still light. mesh is often heavy..

(bpl will not allow link sorry, another day)

Pic above shows tent. Fabrics are not UL, design compensates a bit! Inner is silnylon base with 40gsm nylon Walls with some mesh near head and feet. Inner is a box not your usual pyramid tube. I've put a 1/2 length zip in the roof of the inner to give me maximum headroom when I need it and maximum warmth when I don't. Imagine a normal tent T-zip formation that carries up onto a flat roof and you get the idea…

http://www.backpacking-lite.co.uk/gallery/marks-helvellyn-ultralight-tarp.html

Link shows my favourite combination of tarp and bivi. My current not-UL tarp is 110g

Tent is more comfortable and bivi more versatile. Both can go on a diet with SUL fabrics…

[John Donewar]

Mike,

Thank you so much for sharing the knowledge gained from your experience.

>>I've done a 1kg twin-skin tent/tarp which is great for colder weather. Using mostly nylon rather than mesh for a very small coffin inner tent helps a lot with temperature retention<<

By twin skin do you mean "double wall"? Did you use your bivy with this arragement?
I use a homemade "Meteor" bivy 1/2 mesh & 1/2 WPB nylon with a silnylon bottom.

>>For optimal use I would do the triangle as two doors closed by toggles and cord loops with tie-ups for other tarp configurations.<<

I may try adding those triangle doors and tie-ups on the foot end of my tarp to function as my winter wind blocker. But first I have to work up the courage to cut into my favorite tarp. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

Edited to add content below.

Mike,

I found this on your website. ;-)

A picture is worth a thousand words. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

[Jerry Adams]

"(bpl will not allow link sorry, another day)"

Just put in HTML – sort of awkward but…

<a href="address">text</a>

replace address with URL

text will appear on screen

[Mike Hinsley]

John,

Yes I do mean double wall. There is ne need for a bivy in a tent..

That picture uses a zip rather than toggles but it does show how the door is hel in place and the zip is stress-relieved. In this setup I can unzip the zipmto increase the airflow and still keep rain out.

Tarp sits high enough (8cm) off ground that condensation is minimal. Groundsheet with large sidewalks help with windchill.

This tent u/l tent was chopped to add a front beak/vestibule for more space and then the inner tent designed to fit inside it. The inner is designed around my dimensions not the tent dimensions….

[Mike Hinsley]

Jerry,

The problem with the link was that it references a large ancient earthwork and landmark built by a guy called Offa. The correct name for this earthwork is being identified as an not-allowed word and so I couldn't link.

I'm not near a pc so not too functional either….

[Mike Hinsley]

Finally I'm near my image library and can show some of the variations I've tried.

These two show a small tarp with just the rear end closed – permanently. This prototype was used on a week-long trip in wet weather. With correct pitching there was only something like 2ft of headroom at the front. It wasn't a 4* hotel but it did keep my dry. It's used with a side-wall groundsheet and no bivy bag. The sleeping bag has a DWR. Too much wind crucixifies the sleeping bag…. Full design plans

My current favourite 'winter' setup especially for mountain use is this:

I've been through several variations of fabric and sizes and bivis but the basics stay the same. The tarp is big enough to provide an area that I can sit in shielded from the wind and an area for cooking that's also shielded from the wind. I've recently taken one copy of the tarp and shrunk the dimensions a little to save weight, use fewer pegs and improve wind-flow. I like sleeping on mountain ridges and the wind is the killer.

SUL fabrics are hard to find in the UK so I've tended to focus on design to compensate. Mostly though I realized a long time ago that food and water were the biggest variables in my pack and that if I travel in cooler weather and avoid over-dressing I can safely carry a lot less water and that gives you pounds rather than ounces of weight saving….

I'll try and find some more images but really a double-walled tent or a bivi-tarp combo seem to be where I always end up these days depending on the terrain I'm in and the weather I'm trying to avoid…

[Mike Hinsley]

Here is a slightly better shot of the compact inner tent showing the roof T-Zip open. It also shows how the inner is suspended from 4 rather than 2 anchor point to keep the box shape. The front beak has been collapsed (it had 3 zips as an experiment!) and so it's easy to see how much smaller the inner is to the outer. The front porch has a small groundsheet so that I can have somewhere dry to sit!

Zoomed in! There is a little mesh panel in the roof and a little mesh panel above head-height on the front (and a tiny one at the rear). The rest is 40gsm nylon on the Silnylon base.

Here is the rear of the tent – a beak. In this picture it's pitched quite high but you can see how the tent is suspended and how the rear beak is a fixed geometry. Suspending the tent like this gives a nice ridgeline without worrying about cetenary cuts and precision sewing. This particular thing is a prototype that's been hacked at least 3 times to try entirely different things!!!!

This year I'm seriously wondering about rebuilding this tent using 1.1oz Sil Nylon (imported probably) for a trip.

[Stuart R]

Haha, I know what you mean by Offa's "earthwork", PC gone mad again.

You probably know the two main sources of fabric in the UK, but you can get a much bigger selection from http://www.extremtextil.de

[Scott Nelson]

I had a similar experience with a tarp getting a lot of condensation inside on a dry evening. The water vapor must have come up from the damp ground and hit the cool tarp fabric to condense. I got wet getting into the tarp for sleeping-it certainly didn't come from my breath or sweat. This must be the source of the moisture you often get on the bottom of a conventional tent floor as well.

[Mike Hinsley]

Stuart,

Thanks for the supplier link they look great. Might just save me the hastle of US imports.

[Sam Farrington]

John,
There was a Canadian guy, Oli, who posted a few months ago. Although there was some angst about the way he set up a Warmlite tent, he did provide a link to a page that shows a great solo tarp tent. Scroll down and there are videos. Scroll further, and there are instructions for making the tent. Do you read in French down there in the bayou? Looks like it would be a great "winter" tarp tent. At one point I think he provided a link to some videos of it in Greenland weather, but I don't have them.

If you haven't looked at the tarp tent in the link, I recommend it:

http://randonner-leger.org/perso/doku.php?id=liste_equipement_islande#abri

Oh, and party on. You shouldn't mind the beer commercials in the videos.
Sam

[John Donewar]

Sam,

>>Oh, and party on. You shouldn't mind the beer commercials in the videos.<<

No problem! ;-)

I really appreciate the link.

>>Do you read in French down there in the bayou?<<

There is Parisian French, Canadian French and Cajun French. These languages are as alike and as different as turkeys, ducks and chickens. But I am out of luck since I studied Spanish in school. ;-)

Oh well a picture is worth a thousand words.

Parti Sur, ;-)

Newton

[Sam Farrington]

John,
Glad the link was helpful.
Here's the link to the thread with Oli's post that had the other links as well.
You may get my snarky post, but just scroll up a little:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=34339&skip_to_post=330343#330343

The last link in his post has the tarp tent pitched on a frigid ocean bluff with Oli trying to get a shot of the readout on a wind meter (anemometer?) in a howling gale, but also shows the view from both inside and outside the tarp.

You'll probably like the current commercial too, boxed heart-shaped chocolates for Valentine's Day, well presented. Has a party flavor to it.

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