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8 pound base weight
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Sep 21, 2010 at 10:43 pm #1647800
Oh my, such personal questions, Sam!
(j/k!!)
Sep 21, 2010 at 11:57 pm #1647808…
Sep 22, 2010 at 2:30 am #1647813Being stylish shouldn't scare anyone off and I'm sure a plaid rain skirt coupled with capilene base layers would be the pinnacle of ultralight fashion.
Sep 22, 2010 at 8:37 am #1647860MontBell all the way…
Sep 22, 2010 at 8:43 am #1647863Hey…I love my down T and quilted skirt!
Sep 22, 2010 at 10:28 am #1647901Reply to SAM:
I love my puffy pants…– BUT –
I didn't add the puffy pants to the list. These are a little bit hard to fined, so for the purposes of the book, I simply listed thin long undies (easy to find).
I do write about puffy pants in the text, and I recommend them for anyone trying to maximize the warmth when you have a VERY light quilt.
M!
Sep 22, 2010 at 11:25 am #1647915There is one very important problem with the list – food. Twenty two ounces is fine for one day, but not for ten. If you took it all as butter, you would be getting fewer than 5000 kcal a day, which just happens to be the average amount I burn up while hill walking with a light backpack.
Obviously, I dilute my butter with other things. In fact, my butter consumption is pitiful when compared with that of Erin McKittrick or Myrtle Simpson. Also, over ten days, I need a balanced diet. Butter plus vitamin pills just doesn't appeal. I have to say the food (and fuel) advice is not something I would share with beginners.
Sep 22, 2010 at 12:40 pm #1647945Reply about FOOD volume:
1.4 POUNDS PER PERSON PER DAY is absolutely fine for a 3-season environment.1.4 pounds = 22.4 oz
I have done years of testing with big groups on long-format 12-night trips. I kept tidy records, and this is the number that works best. It might *seem* low, but in actuality, it works out perfectly!
If you take more, you end up with leftovers, and thus, you've carried too much.
– also –
The content is not necessarily for beginners. LIGHTEN UP by Don Ladigan is the perfect book for the beginner. I am aiming to give the best info I can to achieve a sub 10-pound base weight. Don's book should be seen as the foundation, followed up by this upcoming book.
Sep 22, 2010 at 1:29 pm #1647954I can't argue with practical experience and certainly have had leftovers on some trips, but the aims of a trip surely influence food needs.
Also, definitions of temperate might vary. Scottish summer weather can be lively, prolonging the active part of the day.
What type of food do you take?
By the way, I'm reading "A Long Trek Home" and the descriptions of clear cut are making me think about toilet paper. It is more than a personal issue (or tissue).
Sep 22, 2010 at 1:57 pm #1647971Discussing food weight per day without listing average calories per unit weight is comparing apples to oranges (both good trail food, though).
I typically take 1.5 to 1.75 lbs/person/day. At the low end we have little to no food left. The high end is for gourmet hikes. But I also lose weight on the trial, as much as one lb per day (n.b. I have PLENTY to spare!).
I guess it depends on your metabolism, how strenuous your trip is, day/night temperatures, what kind of food you bring (cals/oz), etc.
Probably those happy with the low end are careful to bring foods with high calorie density. We just bring things we like to eat.
Sep 22, 2010 at 2:31 pm #1647988"MontBell all the way…"
Instead of calling it a skirt, you could just call it a kilt…. ;-)
Sep 22, 2010 at 2:48 pm #16479971.4 POUNDS PER PERSON PER DAY is absolutely fine for a 3-season environment.
Based on my experience and observations to date 1.4 pounds per person per day seems fine to me for a 3-season environment. This sounds more reasonable to me.
Sep 22, 2010 at 2:58 pm #1648003"1.4 POUNDS PER PERSON PER DAY is absolutely fine for a 3-season environment."
I don't question the veracity, but it does leave me with some questions:
Is this dehydrated/freeze-dried food?
Is the packaging weighed as well?Sep 22, 2010 at 5:43 pm #1648044About the food. It's based on a well rounded diet, of food items easily available at any grocery store or heath food stor bulk section. There is NO freeze dried camping food included.
It is roughly based on 125 calories per ounce.
There is an extensive food chapter with LOTs of recipes.
Sep 22, 2010 at 6:01 pm #1648048I show what a 20oz/day food setup looks like on my website. Here is a link, you need to scroll down a bit to get to the food.
It does have a freeze dried dinner even though its been over a year since I have eaten a freeze dried meal. I have been dehydrating my own food and using freezer cooking (aka Sarah's book) for awhile now. My typical dinner is about 5oz (just replace the freeze dried meal in pic) of 1c rice, 1/4c beans, 1/4c dried hamburger, and spices (oregano, pepper, garlic, etc).
I showed a freeze dried meal because I wanted to have a list that was easy for someone to reproduce by hitting an REI and a grocery/convenience store.
The 20 oz weight includes all packaging. I never run out of food and rarely find myself hungry. As Mike indicated I too shoot for about 125 cals/oz.
Now my trips are 2 to 4 days in length but I would guess that covers 90% of the trips done by typical backpackers.
Jamie
Sep 22, 2010 at 6:21 pm #1648051Okay, I am no nutritionist. And we can all get by for a few days with little or no food.
Mike's 20 oz per day @ 125 calories per oz = 2,500 calories.
That should be enough for most "active" men and women according to what I have read. However backpacking 8 or 10 hours per day in varying conditions must burn more than 2,500 calories per day. Heck it might be 5,000 or more per day. Have any studies been done on this?
Sep 22, 2010 at 6:23 pm #1648055I don't know of any studies, but I bring between 19-21 ounces per day and I always have enough to eat. I actually find myself being less hungry when backpackging and I think this is because I'm not sitting bored anywhere.
Sep 22, 2010 at 6:30 pm #1648057On 8-day trips (+/-), of 15 to 20 miles a day, consuming about 2700 calories per day, I find I have plenty of energy during the day, and don't find myself feeling hungry.
However, it is not uncommon to become cold during the night.
And I typically lose about 3/4 pound of body weight a day.(I am trying to up my calorie intake.)
Sep 22, 2010 at 6:33 pm #1648058Nick, I agree with what you say about cals. It would look like a significant short fall. A full day for more hiking is typically 25 miles over 10-12 hours and includes a fair amonnt of elevation gain. As you point out, by the books this should be 5000+ cals/day. All I know is that I do absolutely fine on 20 oz/day. I have on occassion gone as high as 24 oz/day but always end up with significant food left over. I am eating as much as I desire. I typically eat something every 1.5 to 2 hours. Comparing a trail day to an office day, I spend more time "hungry" in an office day then I ever do on the trail.
I have wondered if I was a freak, but it sounds like Mike has had similar experience with broader groups.
Jamie
Sep 22, 2010 at 7:02 pm #1648073clearly there is going to be some calorie deficit, you'd be hard pressed to pack enough food to not have one
I usually pack in the 1.5-ish #/day and on a week long trip I usually lose 4-5 lbs, nothing I get too alarmed about :)
there used to be a neat calorie calculator (was on a Boy Scout site) where you could plug in your weight, number of hours, number of miles and elevation gain/loss and it would spit out a caloric output- not sure how accurate it was, but pretty neat nonetheless
Sep 22, 2010 at 7:34 pm #16480811.4 POUNDS PER PERSON PER DAY my working number.
1.4 pounds = 22.4 oz
Folks were saying I go with 20 oz Per Day, but I take 2.4 oz more. THat is the weight of a peanut butter Clif Bar!
I re-package everything in the lightest bags possible. The weight includes the packaging.
Sep 22, 2010 at 8:05 pm #1648092Just checked my own food intake: came to 19 oz per day.
Bringing an extra Clif bar (2.4 oz. using Mike's figure) — heck, a 5-day trip, and that would negate ALL the weight advantage of tarping over tenting…
I guess my point is that we all draw our lines differently. Some people shave weight on shelter, but may be more liberal with their food… I bet 10 UL hikers will achieve their UL targets in exactly 10 different ways each and every time.
My two cents: it may be more helpful to introduce readers to all different UL options — arm them with knowledge and then let them juggle the equation on their own — then to push any one methodology — tarp only, no TP, etc..
Sep 22, 2010 at 11:31 pm #1648118I understand the arguments about presenting the book more as a blueprint than a catalogue, but one thing to be careful of is making it too general and vague. People starting out are already often coming from a stance of vagueness and need concrete examples in order to picture in their heads what they can physically go out and buy. Dropping names of brands and models allows them to look at examples that could work, and from there they can compare to other models in the store. If you've never seen a tarp, let alone tried one, without a recommended example, how would you start out? Think of another topic confusing to a newbie… cooking for instance. If someone said, "Just go out and buy a pot." would you know what pot to get? I do understand the problem with models being discontinued, but one has to start somewhere.
One of the reasons I loved reading "The Complete Walker" by Colin Fletcher (I've got three editions), "The Pacific Crest Trail Hiker's Handbook" and "Beyond Backpacking" by Ray Jardine (I had started changing my gear long before I BPL started up), and "The Backpacker's Handbook" and "The Advanced Backpacker" by BPL member Chris Townsend, is because they all spend considerable time going over specific models and comparing them. They helped me get my head around the abstraction of the information. Once I purchased a few backpacks and shelters and actually tried them out in the field then I could relax and purely rely on the more generalized advice in the books. If any of these authors had simply written, "Go out and buy a tent." I wouldn't have had a clue about where to start.
Even today, when my packing methods have changed considerably, I still go back and read these books again and again so that I can get my head back to the origins again. Plus I simply love their writing styles… the books are a lot of fun to read. (Yes, Mike, I do have "Lighten Up!" and go back to it often)
One thing I really liked about the two books by Ray Jardine, and yet another much-loved book, "Hammock Camping" by Ed Speer, was that they gave detailed instructions for making the gear that they advocate. Not only did this help me to much more comprehensibly understand the concepts of lightweight backpacking and hammock camping, it helped me to see the gear as ideas manifested in physical form. By designing and constructing my own tarps and backpacks I was able to see why certain parts were unnecessary or overkill or inadequate. Learning to make my own gear also helped me to understand and feel comfortable with cutting up gear that I had bought, because I understood the concepts and construction methods that held the items together. I think it's more difficult to cut up an expensive pack when you have no idea whether it will compromise the pack.
Sep 23, 2010 at 5:15 am #1648135"negate ALL the advantage of tarping over tenting…"
Yes and no. With using a tent in place of a tarp the weight gain remains constant the entire five day trip. With added food weight the difference starts to drop with the first meal.
Sep 23, 2010 at 6:44 am #1648142I guess my point is that we all draw our lines differently. Some people shave weight on shelter, but may be more liberal with their food… I bet 10 UL hikers will achieve their UL targets in exactly 10 different ways each and every time.
My two cents: it may be more helpful to introduce readers to all different UL options — arm them with knowledge and then let them juggle the equation on their own — then to push any one methodology — tarp only, no TP, etc..
ben i agree with this 100% …
everyone has different taste and ideas…and not everyone will do things the same way
i also feel that learning what works for "You" is half the fun of backpacking ,and also will help the evolution of our hobby …just my .01one thing i will never agree with is the no TP thing…sorry but i like my TP i can live with the extra 1oz of weight … i can cut an oz somewhere else if need be
but thats just me…may not work for others and i respect thatHYOH…. (hike your own hike) :)
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