HMG Echo I – Initial Impressions

Howdie,

Thanks a bunch for this review – and the ongoing follow-ups within this discussion. Great job.

I would really like your thoughts on just the bug-net (inner modular) setup. Such as we see in this photograph:

http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/m/1m_system_-_support_3_copy.jpg

There are times when the weather is nice and the milkyway is awesome to see, so this is something that interests me.

At this time I have a TarpTent moment and while I like it, the single wall issues are obvious issues that are really annoying me. I live in the middle of the Redwood forest with a constant humidity of 90% and condensation is a huge huge factor/issue for me.

I have been looking for something that would give me the "inner" bugnet only option, while still having the ability to throw a tarp up to protect from rain when it is around.

I am also curious if a foot-end beak is available. Nothing I have seen indicates that there is. Sure, one sets up their system to face into the wind, but what about when the wind changes direction. Seems like this would become an issue. Thoughts?

Thanks!

"I would really like your thoughts on just the bug-net (inner modular) setup."

What sort of thoughts are you after? The inner would set up easily like this and work nicely, but you would need add the ridgeline guylines to it (or steal some off the tarp) because when you get the Echo I there is just an empty LineLoc3 tensioner on the front, and on the rear there is the short bungie cord to clip the inner to the tarp. So plan on spending 2 min adding guylines to the inner before you can set it up by itself. It makes sense for HMG to leave these guylines off because you wouldn't normally want an unneeded guyline just hanging in the doorway and at the rear they need to attach shockcord for clipping the inner to the tarp for the normal setup.

The process of adding the tarp in the night seems a bit slower than just adding the fly to a tent, because to set up the tarp you need to space the hiking poles further apart, so essentially you would be starting the setup over. I will use my Echo I in inner only mode, but likely only on fairly warm nights with close to 0% chance of rain, so there is little chance that I'll wake up when it's raining and need to spend 5 minutes re-setting up the shelter.

"I am also curious if a foot-end beak is available."

The tarp is about 2 feet longer than the inner so you get about 1 foot of overhang on either end (plus the beak on the front). You can shift the inner closer to the head end of the tarp to get that foot end overhang closer to 1.5' if you want. Accordingly, rain getting inside the inner isn't really a concern. It would have to be blowing nearly horizontal to get in. Even then the foot wall of the inner is waterproof cuben material so that would block most of it. Some wind could get in if the foot end is facing into the wind, but normally the foot end wouldn't be facing into the wind and even if it was, the solid foot end wall does a pretty good job of blocking it.

The only situation in which I would prefer to have a 'foot end beak' or wall is when I'm using it without the inner and I'd like the psychological advantage of feeling fully enclosed. I don't sleep well when I'm thinking about how a bear could just poke it's face in the open end of my shelter and munch down on my feet. Even though I know this is an irrational fear, I sleep better when I'm fully enclosed. I haven't used my Echo I without the inner yet, but my plan is to lean my pack against the foot end trekking pole to largely block this opening. You could do this too with or without the inner if you were worried about wind coming in the foot end.

If you want something similar but with a close-able foot end, you could look at the SpinnShelter from Gossamer Gear. It's similar to the Echo tarp+beak but it's all one piece instead of two and it had a foot end wall that velcro's into place. You could use this shelter with a inner bug tent like the ones sold by AlpinLite Gear. The SpinnShelter + Alpinlite Bug Shelter 1.25 is a nice combo, but personally I strongly prefer cuben over spinnaker so that advantage plus the additional modularity of the Echo is what drew me in. I also like having a 1.5oz cuben floor rather than a less waterproof, less durable and slippery silnylon floor that those Alpinlite bug shelters have.

I finally got around to write my HMG Echo I review after using it on my Russia trip.

im looking at yr weights henrik … and for 660g

you could get a Duomid in sil with innernet which i suspect might be easier to set up, proven in winds, have fairly steep walls to deal with snow, have more space and be cheaper to boot

or even lighter in cuben

or for an extra 100 grams you can get a tarptent moment .. which again i suspect might be easier to set up and cheaper

The Echo I looks heavy in Henriks review because the weights include HMG's heavy guylines and you're comparing that to the weights of those other shelters without guylines. Without guylines the complete Echo I setup is 20oz, compared to 30oz for the sil DuoMid + Inner or 28.5 for the Moment.

My complete Echo I weighs 21.7oz including guylines since I switched mine to lighter 1.4mm cord. I could go lighter still (~20.5 – 21oz total) but I'm a sucker for the handsome look of HMG's 1.4mm guylines.

The cuben DuoMid + solo inner would be an awesome combo at 20.5oz. I could be totally into this. This complete setup is basically the same weight as the Echo, it would setup quicker, you'd have more headroom and you may have more total protected area. On the downside, it's more expensive at $550 and you can't go nearly as light in tarp only mode (6oz vs. 12oz) which is nice for some fast & light trips. One of the nice things with the Echo I is that you do get a darn light cuben tarp that you can use for SUL trips and you can bring it along on other heavier trips to use as a tarp over the kitchen area or whatever.

Yesterday:

ahhh but dan the sil duo + solo net weights 24.5 oz for $140 less … and to be totally fair the echo 1 is a mono tent …

so … the solomid + solo innter = 21.5 oz and costs 175$ less … and is "skurka" proven across in wild alaska in all seasons

the solomid cuben + solo inner is 2 oz lighter and $20 cheaper to boot

each to his own … my poncho tarp + bivy is even lighter of course =P

Yeah if you opt for silnylon you'll be able to get a cheaper shelter for a small weight penalty. I think this is an apples to oranges comparison though, because Cuben has a lot of advantages over sil besides weight (ie. waterproofness, strength, no sag).

Yeah the cuben solomid + inner is 2oz lighter and $20 cheaper, but I'd way rather have the Echo I in everything but deep winter because:

– The Echo I has a large amount of vestibule space. The solomid + inner has none. In terms of space, the Echo I is a lot closer to the DuoMid + solo inner.

– The Echo I has a 1.5oz cuben floor, which is far more waterproof and durable than a slippery silnylon floor. This is a big plus for me.

– If you don't need the inner, the Echo I is quite a bit lighter (6-9oz) than a smaller solomid (10.5oz).

I went out for a 1 night/2 day trip with another BPL'er this week. It was my first time using the Echo I in the snow. The snow was really packy so I build some short snow walls to keep things warmer inside. It worked well and it was easy to do because you only need walls about a foot high. I was using the inner tent, but it would have been nice if I wasn't because I would have had a lot more space. On future trips this winter I'll likely skip the inner and just use the tarp, beak, groundsheet & snow walls:

I didn't build a wall at the door so it was easier to get in, and so I didn't suffocate myself. A little trick I discovered is that you can hook the loop at the bottom of the door flap over the trekking pole tip, and then zip the zipper down as far as it goes to create a beak over the vestibule so you can still easily access your stuff, while also protecting it from falling snow/rain:

Imagine that inner tent wasn't in there and you can see I'd have a ton of protected space and great headroom. You could also pitch it higher for even more headroom.

Be careful not to suffocate.

In addition to the large air gap under the door, I also used a top vent. I put my full brimmed hat on top of the tent pole, secure it in place with the chin strap cord, and then I can unzip the door zipper down from the top (since it has 2 sliders) to create a protected vent. You can sorta get the idea here:

Thanks for posting the picks and trip!

Still really considering getting this setup. Are you amazingly happy with it? Or, have any hesitations about it?

i need some snow …

Myself and Scott T (another BPL'er) went to Deeks Lake, which is between Vancouver & Squamish. It's a 7km, 3500' elevation gain hike. We were going to do the full Howe Sound Crest Trail hike in 2 nights but there was an awful lot of snow for hiking so we shortened it to a 1 night fishing trip. We caught 18 cutthroat trout between the two of us.

John, yes I am very happy. The only real cons to the Echo I are it's slower to setup than a tent, and there isn't a ton of headroom if you're using the inner. On the pros side, it's extremely well made, very strong and durable, offers double wall condensation protection, can withstand high winds and snow loads and it's modularity lets me use it without the inner to get quite a spacious enclosed tarp. Having a vestibule was a much appreciated feature on this trip. It let me keep my stuff easily accessed but protected from the falling snow. I cooked in the vestibule in the morning so I didn't have to get out of my sleeping bag :)

I'm going to be using this on several multi-day ski touring trips this winter and I'm thrilled with what a strong and spacious 3/4 lbs shelter I'm going to have when using it with short snow walls + groundsheet instead of the inner.

Haha….nice pics Dan. Looks like a venerable snowstorm. I didn't realize you made that many changes to the tent to make it all that much lighter.

I would've liked to have taken a closer look, but the snow had my full attention.

Dan caught 13 of the trout, and rescued a 50+ lb golden retriever, on a bear bag line leash (multiple use) that almost pulled him off the mountain.