Has lightweight packing really caught on?

I think that a lot of people are 'scared' of what might happen if they get caught in some situation without the appropriate gear. Obviously this can be true, but we all know (around here, at least) that some good technique can do a lot.

Also it seems like many people carry a ton of extra clothes. A change for every day, sometimes. Only in America (probably an overstatement)do we 'need' to shower every day. Personally, I only shower once or twice a week. I have told co-workers after having worked at different places, and they seem amazed by this fact and were otherwise not aware of my implied funkiness ("funky as you wanna be!"- James Brown)"

TMI I guess, -long, unnecessary story- but the point is just bring one set of hiking clothes and the pertinent layers, and maybe a change of socks.

YMMV (my wife brings a sleeping shirt- which is a good idea for keeping body oil out of the sleeping bag) Sorry for the ramblings

Yeah, that's it. The expedition mentality. There seems to be multiple variations on this theme.

There are the outward bounders, the "better to have it and not need it" people. They've learned the 10 essentials and all that stuff and by golly they're not going to risk their lives like people like me. (As if romping in the woods in summer time requires so much equipment.)

There are the don't know any better expedition folks. They want to go on a trip and they think about their regular life so they match it for the trip. Put in the full tube of toothpaste, the change of clothing for every day, pajamas, sweatshirt, winter coat, the plate, cup, bowl, spoon, fork, knife, frying pan, coffeemaker etc.

Then there is the trip of a lifetime kind of expedition. A trip of a lifetime requires a lot of planning and details and certainly lots and lots of gear. You couldn't go out and do a trip of a lifetime wearing clothing and shoes already in your closet or carrying items you scrounged in the garage. It requires all new, top-of-the-line stuff and lots of electronic gadgets while you're at it, too.

There's the macho expedition type. It's gotta be hard or else it's not a manly sport. You have to have huge boots because of snakes and because we're ruggedly manly men in a rugged, dangerous environment. That sort of thing.

And then there are the experienced people who've been doing this for 40 years and are still using the same equipment. I really respect those people because they are committed to getting out there, they've been a lot more places than I have, they seem happy and undeterred. There does come a time in these folks lives, however, when they do recognize the need to replace their old heavy stuff with newer lighter stuff so that their old knees can keep going. They just haven't reached that point yet. More power to them.

Here's a lady I met from this last category.

She actually hikes the trail in flip-flops and bare feet. I followed her bare footprints for a mile before I met her. She's been using the same gear for 35 years. Spends 3 months a year backpacking. No way am I going to tell her to do anything differently.

Here's a lady I met from this last category.
Holy cow is that an extra backpack strapped on the outside of her backpack? yowsa!

I ran across a group of boy scouts last spring on a 2 day hike and one of the boys was carrying this!!
Felt sorry for the kid, but the Scout Master or person in charge should have known better.

yeah lightweight backpacking has not "caught on"
last time i was out on the AT i seen so many ppl with heavy packs…alot of External frame packs too…
I ran into a group of guys and the one guy hurt his knee…
he had to hike out 3 miles on a bum knee with a 50lbs pack…his kid was with him…and his pack had to be 50lbs as well..heck the one thru hiker i met had a 75lbs pack
when he lifted up my pack he was in shock that my pack was only 13lbs for 3 days ….
i think that weekend i passed by at least 15-20 ppl with 50+lbs packs ..and i'll tell you this..they did not look happy to me in the heat of the summer
don't get me wrong UL backpacking is not for everyone..
but this day and age with the internet and all the good info and gear out there,there is no need to suffer with a 50lbs pack just my .02

I took my 3 yr. old daughter out on her first overnight backpacking trip this weekend, so I had a traditional (actually state-of-the-art lightweight 18 years ago) Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight 2-person tent, 2 sleeping bags, 2 pads, 2 kids books, blankie, etc. I was thinking that I can't believe I had EVER hiked with 25 lb. base weight…and that was only ~1/4 mile on a nice flat trail. Can you say, "spoiled"?

It is hard to upgrade (lightweight) if you only hike once a year, and aren't aware of the alternatives to traditional REI backpacking.

I still believe that the best way to spread the word it what Glen van Peski does, and switch packs with the other person for awhile!!

We regularly come across miserable people with monster loads. I feel so sorry for them, they clearly are not enjoying the trail, and in many cases can't muster the energy to say hello back to us.

They set up wonderful camp sites with all kinds of doo-dads, and I guess they think it is worth it.

Maybe one day they'll learn, but I suspect too many of them just give it up because it's so much work. In fact, I almost did, but fortunately I came across Jardine's book "Beyond Backpacking" and BPL.

In truth, "fortunately" just doesn't cut it…my life was totally changed by my realization that in my 50's, with my aging knees and ankles, I could still go backpacking and not kill myself.

>>Holy cow is that an extra backpack strapped on the outside of her backpack? yowsa!

Yea, that's a Sierra Club backpack strapped on. Oddly, it was not the only time I saw that, and all of the strapped on backpacks were Sierra Club backpacks.

It depends if you're out there for the camping or hiking/walking. I don't see a problem carrying a lot of weight if it means fulfilling the goal of having a better time in camp. I personally don't care for time in camp, but I do care for having more lounge time on my next thru-hike attempt, so I will be happily carrying more than I need to if my only goal was to cover a lot of miles.

What doesn't make sense is when backpackers have the knowledge and means to replace their gear with lighter variations that do the same job.

I saw many packs within a 6 hour window on my aborted Rae Lakes Loop hike that were like that photo. The packs I saw were amazing! They were towering over folks as tall as myself! With today's ability to seek out stuff on the internet, it really makes me wonder. As I passed many hikers heading out from Roads End, I gave words of encouragement and they looked at me with my small pack and thought I was a day hiker. I am sure they would have patted me on the head saying …….thanks son! Each to their own, I say. I cannnot physically hike like that person in the photo. No way! Nor do I want to. Sometimes you need to lighten your hike. No one is wrong with the way they do their hikes. But for the last 10 years my wife and I have enjoyed hiking lightweight and with no problems. I guess it comes down to comfort level???

I'm pretty sure that orange pack in Jim's photo is a Camp Trails Astral Cruiser (circa late-1970s). The reason being that I have one in my basement from my teen years. And while mine never held a cast iron fry pan or a full sized LP tank, I do remember the pack, at times, weighing 60-80#. While I know I am nowhere near UL like most of the folks here, each year my wife and I find new ways to spend money, leave things at home or multiuse to lighten the load. It's an evolutionary process going from traditional "bring the kitchen sink" thinking to this UL mentality. Some of you have made the evolutionary jumps faster than we have, but we'll make it there someday…and be grinning from ear to ear.

+1 Brian – I find (for me anyway) that it has been a gradual shift. The awareness of lightweight, the gathering of information and forming of opinion, the investigation of gear; it's weight and cost, and the assimilation into your system. Little by little my system is evolving – I was very happy hiking with a 3 lb tent a while back. Now, I'm about to purchase a 10' x 10' silnylon tarp that weighs a fraction of that. I find many different factors affect our choices ; financial situ, marital status (see above !) et al…. This site and Ray Jardine's new book (Trail life) have been Godsends. Regards, Charlie.

IMO not in scouting, yet But there is hope.i think it's just education, or a lack of it. I am 52 and spent some time camping lighter, this June. I am an Eagle scout and I am totally relearning about the wonderful aspects of UL I camped with a tiny day pack and didn't really miss anything. i did bring some other heavy items but I am re beginning to change out my heavy gear. I LOVE IT. I am also on the trail to reduce the size of me by 30 lbs. That too will make a huge difference, from here on out. i really enjoy all your comments and in formation, so thankful.

Thank heavens I found this site before I started buying all my gear. Using UL principles as a framework for buying decisions has proved invaluable.

It made complete sense to me, so I just jumped in with both feet.

It may be personality. A lot of people on this forum seem very analytical, systems oriented… and slightly obsessive (it's a good thing, I only trust opinions from obsessive people in other hobbies).. and from another thread I read, a lot grew up listening to punk rock/skateboarding/sub-culture types.

There was one thread about personality types (normally not much credence for such things, but the myers-brigg is good) and there were a lot of INTJ BPL members… independant thinker, efficiency etc. It's only suppose to be 1% of the population.

But the big one is likely how much they go out, that makes perfect sense.

So far, everything I've tried, gear and techniques has worked like a charm. I haven't noticed any loss of comfort. Sometimes I wish I had a full freestanding tent at some sites.

Folding my BA insulated aircore, putting it against the back, and using a trash compactor bag for quilt to fill volume works great. Hiking with runners, worked great because you can feel the ground and your foot breathes. Using chlorine dioxide tablets for most situations is fine (I can't taste the difference) and crystal lite drink mix for times the water isn't crystal clear.

And I'm happy everything fits into my MLD Burn with room to spare. I just carried way more weight than I should have (water weight) in the pack, to test its limits, and it wasn't bad at all. Only 9km and 2000 ft though.

Took a leap of faith with a Katabatic quilt and like it a lot. The Hexamid solo (no door) has kept me dry in a heavy rain and has been awesome to sleep under this summer. The Double Rainbow is a very well designed, comfortable tent for two.

However, I have realized there is a line to be drawn. At around a 8-10 lb base weight, I already don't feel the pack and I'm not a big strong dude. I understand it's a hobby, but FOR ME I don't see any point in incurring more expense, comfort or safety. It's good to carry a little extra for others that might need it, 3/4 length pads suck, an extra 2-3 ounces of bag is likely a good idea, and mesh doesn't weigh that much…

I tell everyone about BPL. I just met a kayaker who hiked for the first time. Told him about the site. He use to be in British army so knew that you needed little to survive. When I left for a moment, he told my friend that UL was likely not for him, but his wife confided to my friend that she was very afraid he's going to start spending all this money now on new gear….

I'm still relatively new to all this but from my experience so far, to successfully be lightweight requires a lot of knowledge and that knowledge does not come from a quick convo with a retail associate at REI or reading a book and calling it good. It comes with time, effort, study, and quite a bit of experimentation to find the right system that works for you. Sure there are lighter "traditional" products out there for those with the cash and you can tell someone to leave some luxuries behind and squeeze out excess toothpaste, etc. These only get you so far, though, and everything else requires a measurable degree of knowledge and confidence before you can actually go out and do it safely.

Like I'm sure many people on this site have, I started out heavy not knowing any better. I took some stuff I already had, bought a bunch of fancy gear that I didn't have and thought I needed (mostly on advice from sales people at the gear shop), bought way too much heavy foods, and loaded it all up together and me and a buddy headed out to do four pass loop in the Rockies. That is quite an aggressive hike for a first timer and my 55+ lb pack didn't help much (funny thing is that I was told to cut the handle off my toothbrush so I did…lol). That was 2 years ago. The next time I went backpacking was a year later and I took me and my girlfriend (also a first timer) to the same area but a much easier trail. Using lessons learned from the previous year, I was able to leave behind some extra clothes, cut down on luxuries, switch to mountain house meals, and build packs for the both of us that weighed 40-45lbs each with food and water (didn't bother with cutting the toothbrush this time though). Quite an improvement but still felt too heavy for my tastes (and hers). I really enjoy backpacking in the mountains, and want to do it more often than once a year, but if I was to continue doing this, I had to find a better way. I went online and found sites like BPL.com since there really isn't any kind of local source that taught lightweight packing in my neighborhood. Since then it's taken me months of research, experimentation and study to get me just to the 18lb base weight (with bear cannister) on my 3rd major trip that I took this past month. I went to Glacier National Park for 6 days and my total pack weight was 28lbs with food/fuel/water at the trailhead.

I know this is only just on the border of actually being considered lightweight but to me it was quite an accomplishment. Even with all the knowledge I've gained and things I've tried, I still consider myself a rookie because there's so much more to learn and experiment with. I've bought and sold quite a few pieces of equipment and spent a lot of money on trial and error, experimentation and agonized over whether this or that was the best decision or not… I'm sure a lot of you have done similar things to get to where you are now. Am I done? Heck no, my goal is to get lighter and lighter until I've found my ideal system that works for me but the point is that's it's not going to happen overnight. If it were an easy matter of just copying someone's UL gearlist, buying the stuff and just hitting the trail with it, I would have done so and saved myself a lot of time, money and headaches. I would have also lost out on the fun and had less appreciation for what I've accomplished.

Like someone posted previously, most backpackers we see out there are casual types that get out maybe once or twice a year (if even that) and usually want to do big trips. They don't have the time or inclination to figure out all this stuff. They want to be able to get out there as easy and efficient as possible, have a good time and then get back to life. They don't care to spend time at home looking at spreadsheets and weighing out each of their items or even doing a bunch of short outings to try out new techniques. Modern advancements in technology have allowed more and more people to get out there but what that does is just produce more and more traditional style and fly-by-night backpackers. You don't need a lot of knowledge to survive in the backcountry these days if you have enough modern (heavy but easy to use) equipment. Load a person up, give him a big heavy survival kit to boost confidence and send them on their way.

To sum up this long winded and direction-less post, I think lightweight backpacking is and will likely always be a niche in the big wide world of backpacking. As more and more people are introduced into backpacking, I'm sure that the lightweight community will continue to grow as some people convert over, but it will still be on the small side of the overall ratio of traditional to lightweight packers.

I personally like that it's still a relatively small community that I can claim to be a part of. As bad as this sounds, I for one cannot wait for the day that I get to fly past a bunch of packers huffing and wheezing their way up a pass as they ask me about how my "day hike" is going.

I guess the real problem is not that it hasn't caught on with backpackers but it hasn't caught on with retailers. Worse, it hasn't caught on wtih the people who work for retailers. I've gone in to ask them questions and most of them don't seem to know the local trails or even much about their own inventory.

You might say it hasn't caught on with retailers much because lighter gear is less durable, but you'd think that even adopting some simple things a manufacturer could make some lighter things that are durable and make a profit. You could make a tent that uses trekking poles and is a double-wall tent and save some weight, for example. You could make some clothing that isn't all fashioned up with excess hardware, seams, zippers and other gee-gaws and save some weight.

Anyway, a pack in the 20s is pretty darn light compared to some of the packs I saw out there.

> the real problem is not that it hasn't caught on with backpackers but
> it hasn't caught on with retailers.

Don't forget that selling lots of heavy gear to a novice is more profitable than selling a small amount of UL gear, and with heavy gear the retailers don't run the risk of getting returns when 'it fell to pieces'.

Cheers

"Anyway, a pack in the 20s is pretty darn light compared to some of the packs I saw out there."

You should have seen the peeps I was travelling with. I was the lightest by about about 12 lbs but most of the group clocked in above 50lbs which included gear sharing. One guy in the group had a SMD Lunar Solo and a caldera cone stove but his trail weight was still about 45 lbs… It goes to show that just having UL gear doesn't necessarily mean a lighter pack if you don't know how to put it all together.

"Don't forget that selling lots of heavy gear to a novice is more profitable than selling a small amount of UL gear, and with heavy gear the retailers don't run the risk of getting returns when 'it fell to pieces'."

Also lawsuits if a customer were to hurt themselves because some retailer suggested and sold a piece of UL gear that they ended up using improperly.

When you look at it as a whole, it's pretty difficult to explain all of the lightweight principles to a novice coming to a store looking for a new piece of gear. There's a lot of margin for error to someone who doesn't know what they are doing and a lot of chances someone can get hurt if techniques are not followed properly. Most retailers aren't going to take any chances like that and also don't have the time to explain it all. Besides that, look how many options there are for UL. Put a post on here for suggestions what to do for a sleep system and you'll get about 10 different answers ranging from a poncho tarp setup, to a hammock to, hanging upside down from a tree like a bat (still waiting to see this one). Each method has it's pro's and con's and may or may not involve other components to work properly….it all comes down to what's right for you.

Most of the gear that's sold by big retail is designed and made to work independently and not rely on any systems to work. Basically foolproof and low risk. We live in a world where everything has to be plug and play and it's us consumers that are demanding it.

Are we the fringe? Or should we create a new acronym – Technically Advanced Backpacking (TAB). Because that is really what all of us are doing. We are using technology, and good back country techniques to stay safe, and happy. It is a beautiful thing.

Jason

As for "catching on", believe it or not, many people don't care!

I have known plenty of very fit, very experienced outdoor athletes, hunters, climbers, etc. that could care less about backpacking gear. These are people that have what they need, have a tried system that works for them, have no inclination to spend when their gear works fine, and are happy leaving it at that. Most of them would far rather talk routes, rifles, or training than about the weight of their sleep system or how to shave grams off a stove.

Carrying a heavy pack does not mean you're a novice in the outdoors!

Conversely, I'd be curious to find out how many people on this site with tiny packs and uber-light loads spend loads of time and money on gear decisions every year and don't even log 100 miles.

To begin, I don't think we're talking about "outdoor athletes" like hunters, climbers, etc. We're talking about backpackers and backpacking. Of course, people engaged in other outdoor activities are going to spend their valuable time furiously debating the pro's and con's of carrying 10mm vs .44 magnum as a BUG and pontificating on whether it's ethical to use a .243 Win to take down a black bear. While climbers may be drolling over some new kind of chalk or something equally mundane to anybody outside that community. We're talking about backpacking here in this thread.

And if you read this thread again, you'll see that most of us have already clearly stated that carrying a heavy pack does not make a person a novice and carrying a light pack does not make a person an expert. Just like backpacking the AT does not make a person a wilderness survival expert, but that person may be one anyway or not. As I mentioned in my post, one of the most experienced backpackers I know carries a very heavy pack. That said, this same person has an expedition mentality, which has caused them considerable pain and even injury.

Overall, I think most people would greatly benefit from the careful consideration of their outdoor equipment on a regular basis, regardless of the type of activity. And the fact of the matter is that weight is an important consideration in many non-motorized outdoor activities.

Finally, what does it matter if a person hikes 5 miles per year or 5,000? How many times a year does the average "deer hunter" actually go hunting? How many times a year does the typical climber go out and climb? There's nothing wrong with that, if that's all the time they have to go hunting or climbing or backpacking. Likewise, if carrying a lighter pack and having a better understanding of their gear helps a person cover a few miles once a year, that's great too!

If you really MUST know how much people here hike, start a new thread. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be willing to share their experiences with you. Just like avid hunters and climbers, some of us get outside and hike all the time. Again, not that it really matters.

Just to wrap things up, I know "plenty of fit, very experienced outdoor athletes" who could care less about kayaking gear. Imagine that….

Ahh, nevermind.

Thirty or forty years ago it was very rare to see a grown man cycling (as a leisure activity) . Now a lot of the cyclist I see are well into middle age and up.
Chances are that if you take away their 10kg bikes and replace them with a traditional utilitarian 15 to 20kg version most would not bother…
Maybe the same is true for backpacking…

Hint :
This site is called Backpackinglight. The whole idea is to share ways of lightening the load. This is not the only way neither the most practical for some, just the way most of us like to do it.
At 20 I had no spare money to buy a pack let alone a light pack. Now that I can, I do.
So my personal reason for having lighter gear is simply so that I have less weight on my back.
Yes I know , I am odd, always been.

Franco

For a certain subset of BPers, accumulating and or discussing light gear IS the hobby. I know a person or three locally who simply enjoy researching the gear situation (and buying, too) with nary an interest in actually using it.

The same goes for most hobbies. I've known more than I few people over the years who love to build rockets or telescopes but who would rather finish them to exquisitely beautiful perfection than actually launch a rocket or look through a telescope. That would ruin the paint job.

I suspect that such folks are the reason that BPingL has "caught on" insofar as it has. I also suspect that the folks who actually use their lightweight gear frequently are in the minority. In that sense, the hobby hasn't caught on in a real way.

But thank goodness for such folks. (I myself own far more gear than I will ever use. Please don't tell my wife.) The lightweight vendors couldn't stay in business if they had to sell only to the few BPL diehards on the planet.

But then again, I could be wrong — just an instinct based on casual conversations, mostly on the trail.

Stargazer