BPL reviews etc.

Dan, correct, though perhaps the reviews on these winter capable tents are a little late in the season. Perhaps in order to get them onto the site in a timely fashion, the initial review with specs and first impressions should go up early and then develop with further field testing reports in the comments as the season progresses.

Maybe part of the beefing here is because folk think the cottage manufacturers deserve more exposure and endorsement from 'da management' and that's understandable. Perhaps the new initiative to pay contributors for articles started by Addie will go some way to meeting this. Hopefully it will encourage members lucky enough to get their hands on bleeding edge gear to write full-on gear reports.

I totally agree with the OP, BPL doesn't do many reviews of the cutting edge cottage gear that people on the forums tend to buy and use.
That's why I'm not a member- why pay for reviews of gear I'm never going to buy, or I can find for free on other sites not focussed on UL hiking?
Strange place, BPL- the best content is on the forums, which is free, and fantastic for being free, but the reviews, for me, don't really target the majority view seen and written about by the reader base.
I'd join if there was more about UL gear here, wouldn't mind paying at all, but the model as it is now doesn't make sense as a product to me. I won't even mention the astronomic shipping charges to Europe and the non existent stock that make the BPL shop a no go area for me. (I mentioned it, oops)
2C from fred-

Eric. whiners huh. it's our site too you know. We put our money where our mouths are and should have our say.

I agree, a UL backpacking website should focus on reviewing UL backpacking gear.

I want to see a review of the new line of quilts from Katabatic Gear. They're Sawatch 15 degree quilt seems very promising.

-Sid

I'd like to see some MLD gear get reviewed. I havn't browsed all the articles, but I can't recall ever seeing any MLD reviews.

I havn't been a member for very long, and I don't contribute to the forums all that much, but I too have been frustrated with the reviews.

I too must admit that I joined to have access to reviews on less mainstream products that aren't reviewed by other sites or publications. I suspect that much of it has to do with the economics involved. Mainstream manufacturers have the ability to send out review samples quickly and with little or no cost. Cottage industry folks, particularly those on the cutting edge, have a day job as well and on extremely tight budgets.

I have found that more often than not I just order the stuff I think I want/need/would like, and try it out myself. Sometimes I really like it and sometimes I don't. My last venture was a Kookabay Downmat and I couldn't be more pleased.

I suspect I will be one of the first to order a Katabatic quilt as well. Even if I wait for a BPL review on something that interests me, it may not come until much of the season is over.

What I do feel is a very valuable resource is all of you on these forums and YOUR experience with gear. Sometimes the qualitative is worth as much as the quantitative.

To that point, why is the reader review section so slim? I think we could all do better and create a very valuable resource for everyone by sharing our findings.

I actually don't mind seeing reviews for some mainstream gear here. I feel that BPL does a far better job at reviews than any other site and is the reason I subscribe. If a review does not interest me, I skip it.

I know everybody likes gear, I do too, but I have gear.

I'd like more articles and trip reports. Also it would be nice if the digital copies of the magazines were free.

When I signed up I thought I was going to be getting a PDF or something once a month.

It's a business after all guys.

Don't forget that. I know it's hard, that's the dilemma of the social aspect of the community driven experience, but remember, that experience is powered by the grace of "a business".

Seriously, don't lose perspective and start thinking we own a part of this thing.

Hi Guys

You had better add to all the comments made so far that there aren't a great thundering horde of BPL Staff, and the few of us are already pretty busy. In between earning a living, that is.

That said, your comments are noted. We'll try … But it is MUCH easier for a large company with a decent PR budget to hand over some gear for review compared to a tiny cottage industry company. Remember that too.

Cheers

Here's an idea if you are understaffed, or staff challenged and think you'd like to see more UL gear reviews.

Why not hand over some gear to certain members and have peer reviews? Or offer discounts/ something for submitted articles as reviews over and above the reader review section?

I'm sure there would be plenty of volunteers.

cheers,
fred

"it is MUCH easier for a large company with a decent PR budget to hand over some gear for review compared to a tiny cottage industry company. Remember that too."

True. How about buying a few of these pieces out of the BPL pot and selling them on gear swap after the test? I'm sure the cottage manufacturers would offer a discount such that the difference wouldn't be too great, as they benefit from the exposure too.

wow, this thread is getting alot of comments.
the point here is not to whine, just to bring up a topic for discussion-
it seems most of the responders are in agreement with my first post, and if that is the case, BPL staff might want to think about what products we the readers would like reviewed. I do not agree with the "small staff that have day jobs" arguement because most of the readers here also have day jobs and still manage to attain gear when it first comes out and post excellent reviews.
I also am not to sure about the business model someone mentioned. most periodicals rely on advertiser dollars to be able to publish. BPL relies on membership dollars to operate and therefore i think the readers should have a voice. of course, every subscriber can't be the CEO, but if a large group of subscribers is asking, discussing, etc. i think it would be wise for the staff of BPL to pay attention.

on the other side – i agree with the poster who suggested more reader input in the reader review section. this is a great idea. i've read through the reader review section many times while making decisions about which piece of gear to purchase.
I also feel like the readers and members are the real "gold" to BPL. i don't mind at all paying a small annual fee because of the great advice, reports, gear lists, trip reports, etc. oh, and lets not forget gear swap. without the staff, we wouldn't have this platform to unite in common interest.

another poster mentioned a desire for more trip reports. I, too, enjoy a good trip report and i think it would be an excellent area for BPL to expand on, i find some of the trip reports posted by members to be entertaining and educational while also showing me places to hike that i wasn't aware of.

Amen Jeff P. I'd like to challenge all of us (myself in included) to go on more trips, and then write about them! Do a creative trip and then submit an article. IMO the reviews here are tops, but gear is just gear. If you aren't using it, what's the point?

David, you make a great point and challenge to us all! Currently, there are several of us that regularly read/write thorough and content heavy trip reports, unfortunately they often get lost in the shuffle of countless threads and posts that fill the forums. A lot of work gets put into doing write ups then they're lost in the shuffle. Oh well. That's definitely more of a forum layout issue than a member issue.

The fact the site includes trip reports was a major reason I joined. What would make the site even more useful is if the trip reports were organized and indexed by geographic region, total miles, elevation gain/loss (if available), etc. I realize that it would take a major redesign to do so, but it would be much more useful to me when I am planning a future trip to be able to peruse the “Pacific Northwest” trip report section…

The Washington Trails Association website generally does a good job with its trip reports. WTA members have submitted in excess of 28,000 trip reports to its website. These reports cover day hikes, weekend trips and longer, making it easy to find a good choice for a weekend. Also, more than once I’ve made other plans based on the fact that a trail was washed out or there was major blow down.

They have a hike search page which, if you pick advanced options, allows you to choose from a variety of hike criteria, limiting results by geographical region, elevation gain, high point, features (lakes, mountains, rivers) and distance. It includes a full description, many from guidebooks (with the agreement of the publishers, of course), that make finding a hike a snap.

I wouldn’t necessarily advocate such an elaborate system, but one that did organize the trips in a more logical fashion would help.

Dirk

My Dear Mr. Thompson,

Yes, ya pays yer money and ya gets to sound off. That's only right. I pays my money here too and have sounded off once regarding the extensive but unclear (to me) "Winter Footwear" article when I felt there needed to be some clarification.

I have asked BPL in the past to include some reviews of mainstream vendors like REI & Cabela's for more balance and greater diversity. And they have done just that.
So that's one of the reasons I renew my subscription.

As mentioned, BPL's reviews are fairly thorough. No one could do better, more authoritative or more scientific reviews on stoves than Roger Caffin. Clothing and other gear reviews are in depth and useful. Then there are the subscriber reviews which are instructive. All said I feel my subscription is worth the money.

All I was saying, in a caustic manner, I confess, was that not ALL equipment can be UL. If ya don't like it or use it then move on instead of carping.

Winter gear must, of necessity and for safety be heavier in some ways. "Fair Weather" winter campers who go quite UL will someday get caught out when Ma Nature unexpectedly slugs them with her worst. Then maybe they will remember some BPL reviews of not-so-light winter gear they wished they had.

Eric

Eric, You seem to posses the skills and experience to fill in the gaps on the winter footwear article. So when will you be submitting your article? BPL needs you! Have you posted those pack photos yet? All my love, Ken

Ken,
I posted my 2nd reply on Winter Footwear (3rd section) last week.

Taking more photos of my winter pack mods today. Will try posting tonight.

Dirk,
No need to thank me, but I appreciate it anyway :)

All I was saying, in a caustic manner, I confess, was that not ALL equipment can be UL. If ya don't like it or use it then move on instead of carping.

Winter gear must, of necessity and for safety be heavier in some ways.

I think there is general agreement that "ultralight" must be taken in context.

For example, there was a recent thread on the lightest weight tent for sub-Arctic to Arctic canoe tripping (the main problem is you have ferocious bugs and/or sustained high winds, and little or no place to shelter from them).

No one was suggesting a 1 lb tarp setup. Many of the suggestions were in the 5-7lb range — which is ultralight for that environment when you consider traditional solutions are 10 lbs – 12 lbs or more.

One can discuss gear that is heavier than most we talk about on this site, and still be ultralight — in the right context.

–MV

I thought the MSR Hubba Hubba review was great. Is it UL? no… Do I think this site needs more reviews in general YES. I'd like to see at least two tent, one bag, one stove and one trip report posted per week. This way EVERYTHING gets covered.

As for the crying please, knock it off it's starting to get really old. Seriously. People (mostly those affiliated with a tentmaker) complaining about exposure and "pay to play" and blah bla blah.

Who gives a crap? They're a business too. YES YOU DO HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY! Use the BPL money to buy gear to review? Sure… But why don't they just send in some gear for reviews they're the ones needing the business right? It's called advertising. Get with the program and stop babying them.

I am a small business owner and work in marketing. I'm not crying because I don't get easy money from McDonalds but Leo Burnett does.

Seriously get over it and move the EF on. Tarptent.com is one of the worst websites I've seen online. With a great product and that crappy company image they have there's no good reason to shoot yourself in the foot like they are. It's their fault they aren't selling more product to customers. This goes ditto for SMD …nice logo GET OFF YOUR WALLET. Marketing works PERIOD. Stop cbabying these companies and kissing their butts. Yes we should support small business but they should also know how to help themselves.

As for talking crap about REI ..get over it, the day I can find a local dealer with a return policy and great prices like REI is the day I'll give them business.

Stop coddling businesses and let them take care of themselves. Survival of the fittest. Sometimes they need to step up or get left behind.

I'm pretty sure Henry Shires' and Ron Moak's customers are quite happy that they haven't commissioned expensive fancy websites and passed the additional costs onto them.

These small manufacturers serve a small and well informed community. I don't need to see a fancy website, just the dimensions, photos and materials lists are fine.

I haven't heard any of these manufacturers complaining about their sales volume either. I think they are happy to have some time to *get out and hike*.

I suggest those who seem to want to wind this thread into a flamefest do the same.

great prices like REI

Eh? As far as I can see, REI charges full MSRP (except for items on sale, obviously).

The only way I can see calling their prices low is if you area a member and factor in the dividend. That is worth doing, but if you shop around, there is often a less expensive place to buy (even allowing for the dividend).

–MV

> BPL money to buy gear to review?
If only we had that sort of money …

Cheers