BPL reviews etc.

"That is great idea, lets start a list on another thread. There are LOTS of things to review. SMD Haven, Swift, MLD Burn, too many maybe even for a top 10!"

A good idea in theory, but by the time we've voted, BPL staff members obtain the product and do extensive field testing, it would probably be old news (a bit like the NeoAir situation). It would be far better if cottage gear manufacturers approached BPL with beta or new releases for pre-market testing.

"""Moments like this, I feel sorry for Ryan Jordan and staff…"""

I do too…

Granted that there is a time lag between requests for reviews, gear arrival , tests, and at the end of tests the irate remarks for not including X packs or X stakes in the review, this still suggests that there is a general problem in terms of interest in items vs. reviews vs followups. The Neoair thing should almost be the case study in possible snafus. Is it really the case that Cottage gear makers don't send samples preproduction, or is it more like who needs to since BPL members purchase and review anyway?I will admit I'm not an Early Adopter. The Neo air thing sold me on POE Thermos, And the Steripen stuff made me purchase at REI. But the grapevine rumble about lack of coverage of Cottage stuff sends a message of sorts. The question is wahat the full dimensions of that message is in terms of work for who, and $ for what .

Its painfully obvious, to me now at least, that this website sells one thing and one thing only, membership. That is its purpose. I mean the homepage right now is nothing but 'M' tagged articles.

The gear comes and goes and I guess the supply side is never quite worked out. Or perhaps the Staff is never fully satisfied with what designs it commissions I don't know. The lack of a consistent stock on highly valued items is irksome. Thus it seems the store isn't the prime mover behind the site.

As others have pointed out the stated goal here is rather abstract, not surprise then that situations like this crop up all the time. This is not the first time I've seen a thread along these lines and I haven't been a member for that long relatively speaking.

I refuse to feel sorry for someone I pay for a service. If the provider doesn't live up to their end then you do not continue to pay them. It would appear here that many other here have questioned the abstractions behind the site and generally people continue to pay their member fees.

I have my own thoughts on the whole thing but I wish people here would understand that this website sell one thing and one thing only, and it is not camping gear, it's a brand and you pay for the privileges of that brand and for all inconsistencies and abstractions that come with it.

I like BPL.

"It would appear here that many other here have questioned the abstractions behind the site and generally people continue to pay their member fees."

I continue to support this site because without membership fees it would no longer exist, and to me the forums alone are worth my continued support. If a good article comes along occasionally it's a bonus!

As y'all know- I ain't no xpert, but through this thread it does appear (at least to me) that this may be more of an issue for the cottage guys giving up new stuff to be reviewed. Obviously, any BPL staffer would love to hop in a new piece of gear and give it a thorough 'fiddlin', but if they can't get their hands on one till its for sale, like the rest of us, the review will be belated. Possibly there have been mainstream reviews because the products are easily accessible. I mean, if Doug (where has Doug been lately, anyway?) went to Roan Moak and said 'lemme have a Haven to test' Ron would probably say- 'sorry Buddy, but there's only one so far, and I'm still testin' it'

Now they may want some form of payment or whatever, but I bet that could be worked out fairly easily

Just throwing out a wild idea — maybe they can stock up their store properly — and increase their revenues that way??

"Just throwing out a wild idea — maybe they can stock up their store properly — and increase their revenues that way??"

I'll bet it's a tricky business when dealing with such a niche market. Probably better to err on the side of understocking than get caught with a whole bunch of excess stock.??

There are other methods out there other then the antiquated process of "keeping stock" lots of other niche providers do a good job with maintaining a line of products and simply making them as ordered. There are other models that could be used.

Have you seen how frequently their products go out of stock? Henry has a page on his site dedicated to indicating what he has available, and when some his tents will be in stock again, and look at ZPacks and MLD. And look at how many inquiries there have been for the Haven.

Basically, what it comes down to is that the manufacturers certainly don't seem to be having any trouble finding customers… even the expensive ones, like MLD, are back ordered.

I've seen that sort of thing happen in other industries, also; products that were heavily pre-ordered tended to start shipping before the reviewers could get their hands on them.

Now, if people weren't buying products like the Haven, Hexamid, Grace, and Rainbow, BPL would probably have no trouble whatsoever getting their hands on review models to test out.

Of course, the catch is that since most of those products are fairly new (I know the Rainbow's been around a while, but the updated revision hasn't), even if the BPL reviewers HAVE review models, it's going to take them some time to actually get out and put them through their paces before they can write up reviews of them.

I suppose they could write superficial reviews "We like the green color, it's pretty! Oh, and it looks like it ought to keep the rain off if you, say, pitch it outside or something." Then they'd be able to keep up with new products, and this thread would be about how lame the reviews are. I guess these guys just can't win, eh? :)

Oh well… I'd rather they keep doing the reviews the way that they have been, even if it means that they can't keep up. I'd rather be patient than get superficial reviews.

> a wild idea — maybe they can stock up their store properly — and increase
> their revenues that way??

Any idea of how much capital that takes? Or what the manufacturing lead times are like?

This recession is not making it easy for anyone.

Cheers

Roger has a point, no question. Although the stock 'issue' has been in existence for several years.

Lynn T wrote:

"I'm personally not interested in trip reports, as again these have nothing directly to do with lightweight alternatives and they are invariably of places I have no intention of going."

I suppose I ought to be less flabbergasted than I am. (I certainly couldn't be more so.) Firstly, how gear is used is more relevant than the bare specs insofar as lightening the load. Second, travel is the point!

As for feeling sorry for RJ et al, the level of investment in BPL evidenced in this thread is the best hope for future revenue.

"It would be far better if cottage gear manufacturers approached BPL with beta or new releases for pre-market testing."

Lynn, I doubt if the manufacturers have a shortage of people whose opinions they trust who are more than happy to do pre-market testing. Given the back order times these guys have, it's a sellers market. Why would they risk a negative review of their gear which might kill a product when they can't make it fast enough to satisfy demand?

There is a lot of subjectivity in assessing these products anyway, even from BPL testers who are more careful than most. A small light tent will always have design compromises which suit some but not others, and the weather (especially humidity) conditions will affect the judgement made by the tester.

My father owns a small business, and he is keeping inventory of supplies at a bare minimum. It means more trips to local distributers and more orders from national ones when necessary, but he doesn't want to get burned with excess inventory–and thats even with mass-produced and easily stocked items! This is a guess, but for BPL to keep everything in stock would almost amount to custom order prices for most things.

Don't be mislead by anyone, especially the media or politicians (duh), saying the economy is on the road to recovery. Sure there are pockets of improvement, but overall, things aren't really getting better.

Roger, et al,

Jacks 'R' Better, LLC knows about capital investment and the length of manufacture lead time…

Having everthing in stock on a continuous or near continuaous basis has been great for JRB's business growth all through the current economic period.

BTW, JRB has started its annual Trail Days Sale now thru the 18 of May…It may test us on an item or two for a couple of days but we expect to continue to provide same or next day order fulfillment.

Pan

"Any idea of how much capital that takes? Or what the manufacturing lead times are like? This recession is not making it easy for anyone."

Recession? We've been seeing bare shelves at BPL for years!! Think about all the business BPL lost because I (and many others) were forced to click over to somewhere else. And long manufacturing lead times can actually be the reason for BPL to stock up more!

Also, face it, much of what we buy aren't "need" items — but (dare I say it) impulsive. You have saved our wallets many times by displaying — but not stocking — what we want.

Finally, I can see "custom ordering" large, high dollar value items. But BPL habitually runs out of many, many small and low cost items as well.

Most products require minimum orders and come in cases so I know what its like to have $500 worth of survival blankets, $350 worth of survival whistles and $250 worth of sporks no one wants to buy. Especially when the manufacturer or distributor sends them in a weird color that won't sell.. It takes huge amounts of capital to hold lots of inventory.. My website looks like the desert but to have 10 of everything in stock it takes roughly $60,000… If they are having gear made they have to meet minimums… I would say a few hundred plus..

The main focus of this website is provide top notch gear reviews, how to's and trip reports…I have a subscription to Backpacker and Outside Magazine and atleast 50% of the magazine is full of ads.. Hell go to Outside.com or backpacker.com and see how quickly your screen fills with ads..

Give them a break!

Yes. Stocking up does require capital. As a customer, I'd rather see BPL display 50 truly useful items and keep them in stock most of the time — versus 300 items many of which are out of stock most of the time.

Truth be told, I use to browse through BPL's online shop regularly. But not so much anymore. It's just too annoying to see items that I want — only to be told — again — that the item is out of stock.

Its hard to anticipate what's going to sell. When I started my business I sold 3 Trangia Stoves within the first week. So I figured I better stock up on these…Lets just say that re-tock took forever to sell.. I think Google might have alot to do with it…It can either help or hurt you especially when you have the big guys spending thousands to hundreds of thousands a day on advertising and Ad word space..

I agree that inventory should be in stock.. My system is set up so once inventory goes out of stock its no longer shown. I figure out of sight out of mind… BUT that doesn't always work and sometimes (very rare) I have to contact someone saying what they purchased wasn't in stock.

China. Everything that is made in China has huge lead times. Pan has no problems cause he's a good business man and his stuff is made here at home.

Lawson,

Yes, I do agree with you. It's a juggling act for sure.

I've got zero sympathy for the plight of the BPL Gear Store. There is a cost of doing business, so imo either pay the cost, get creative and find lowet costs methods (lean manufacturing, JIT, etc), or reap the consequences and watch someone else fill the void.

My opinion on the rest of the thread regarding people complaining that they're not getting their monies worth and "the forum is free" and that's where they get the most useful info. I don't think the forum would exist without paying members. The site has no advertising and I doubt any other significant revenue stream – so in essence we are paying in large part for the quality forum. And membership is really cheap too so it doesn't take much to pay for itself.

I look at my annual membership as a donation to keep the forums running.

Keeping shelves bare to minimize overhead and / or the result of requirements to make / purchase large quantities of product really doesn't apply here. Why? Because the market demand exists to buy the products! This certainly isn't the first thread about bare BPL shelves. It has been like this for years and really is a condition of BPL never focusing on being a gear producer or supplier but instead a provider of UL information. The products available were a side bet.

Because of the size of BPL, I don't think we can have both. I would prefer the information, reviews, and technical articles. Leave the gear production to MLD, GG, tarptent, etc.