Training for a speed hike.

[Hiking Malto]

You will hear people talk about the ultimito diet with certain percentage of carbs, fats etc. I would suggest trying to max out on the calories, however you can stomach them. Everyone is different and I have really struggled with getting enough calories in me especially above 10k' on my high milegae days. Last Saturday's 32mi found me consuming a bag of hostess donuts (1800 calories) before and during the first 20mi. I ate a decent lunch of about 800 calories (turkey and cheese on wheat with chips) and finished off the last 12 munching on barbacue fritos bringing my total to about 3k. Was that ideal, no way but I could get it in me and I had the energy to run 6 of the last twelve. Bottom line, get the calories, then adjust to better, more ideal foods.

[Aaron Sorensen]

Hey Nate,
Try going out on a hike. Don't think milage or time, just go out until something starts to hurt. Push the pace hard enough in order to make it happen as well.
Also make sure you have your pack on with the weight you will be carrying.

Once you find out what hurts figure out what you need to both make it better and prevent it from happening in the first place. You can also try different combinations of shoes/ socks so you don't have to worry about it on the trail.

Once you do this a few times, you will at least know what to expect.

Also figure out what weight you have estimated now and use that weight for the first hike. Then figure out just how light you can go and take that on the 2nd hike.
This is what made me love going lite long ago. It is sssoooo much more fun going as light as you can.

Good luck, and have fun!

[Nate Davis]

I should have a chance tomorrow to go out for a long time and do some big miles. I'm guessing I'll be able to get in at least 15, if not 20, so it'll be a good opportunity to start figuring out when it starts to hurt, how much I need to eat, etc.

In the meantime, I've increased my daily mileage a fair bit. Did 4 miles Saturday, 6 miles yesterday, and am about to go out and do 4 more today before I have to leave for work. I've been doing all of this with a 15 lbs pack and have been hitting the 3 MPH mark or better despite lots of snow and ice and a fair amount of elevation gain/loss.

I need to start staying on top of my diet, though. How come every time I try and eat healthy there happens to be lots of free pizza or donuts around?

Anyway, thanks again for everyone's input.

[Aaron Sorensen]

As long as you're converting that food into energy and building muscles at the same time, that is whey you are hiking, right?

Increasing milage means less work on the diet and just more about the quality of the food your feeding those muscles..

[Nate Davis]

Well, I did 14 miles today over maybe 4000-4500 ft elevation gain/loss. Wanted to do 20 but I hit the trail late and ran out of time. I completed all of that in five hours, 2 minutes, which figures out to around 2.8 MPH. I was hoping for at least 3 MPH, but I purposely didn't run much because I wanted to see how I'd do with simple fast hiking.

I ran a good chunk of the last two miles and was happy to see how much energy I had left over. Based on that, next time I go out for a 15 miler, I'll do a lot more running on the downhills and some flats. That should put me somewhere between 3.25 and 3.5 MPH, which would be pretty solid.

I'm positive that what kept my energy levels up was a consistent intake of food, something that I haven't been so careful about in the past. I made sure to consume a couple hundred calories every hour, and split that between Clif Bars and the Twizzler/Chips method. Liked the Twizzlers and chips, but I couldn't really eat them while moving because I had a dog on one hand. A bar has the advantage of being easy to hold one-handed, allowing me to keep going.

I definitely learned the advantage of minimal break taking today. I was fairly happy with my time, considering I didn't run much, and it was due to the fact that I wouldn't allow myself to stop when I wanted to. I only stopped when it was time to eat something, and then only for two minutes. I had one five minute break about ten miles in, and I honestly didn't really need it. In fact, it just made me cold and I was happy to keep moving.

I did find that some of my foot placement wasn't as sturdy starting around mile ten, so I guess that's an indicator that I was a bit fatigued at that point, even if I wasn't feeling it. My knees began to bother me a bit around then too, but not terribly.

What do I need to do to keep my joints from hurting? Is it as simple as slowly building up my mileage (and therefore the necessary muscles)?

Thanks again for everyone's advice. I've obviously got a long way to go, but at least I have an idea where I stand now and can work from there.

[Brad Fisher]

Nate,

I have been using the following for my marathon training and it has worked very well. I know others on this site have used it with great success.

http://www.hammernutrition.com/

I think the following book is one of the best for explaining how your body reacts to endurance sports. Excellent read whether you use the products or not.

http://www.hammernutrition.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf?utm_source=Endurance%2BAthletes%2BGuide%2Bto%2BSuccess&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=fuelingbook

I like Heed for training 2 hrs or less. Perpetuem has worked well for training over 2 hours. I also use endurolytes throughout my training.

You have received plenty of great advice from others. I wish you the best of luck on your hike.

[Nate Davis]

Yeah, the advice in this thread has been incredible. Much more than I expected, and there's no question that it's helped point me in the right direction. I'll take a look at this book; thanks for pointing me to it.

[Hiking Malto]

1) Don't worry about the joints, it will get better, or at least that was my experience.
2) On your non-hiking days try bumping up your speed. I would expect that you could exceed 3mph easily based on the lack of breaks. You are the same height as me so you should have a very long stride. Yesterday i took a break and walked to the end of the road and back, 1.3mi We averaged 5.1mph. It was MUCH harder than running but I believe it teaches your body how to go faster.
3) Don't be too hard on yourself if a particular hike is tougher or you have to cut it a bit short. There will be other days when everything is hitting and you'll exceed your goal.
4) +1 on the hammer site but remember, you have to be able to eat it!
5) Finally, watch the running downhills. You may not be able to walk for a few days and you may be called gramps.

Gramps

[Art …]

Nate Great job.
You seem to be doing everything right.
Be careful not to over train in your new found enthusiasm. Try not to add more than 10% to your mileage each week, and make sure to take 1 or 2 rest days a week given your current level. Rest days are what build you back up. you could do some upper body cross training on a rest day. As you get in better shape a full rest day could be replaced by a light, easy trail day.

I also love Hammer products. When I run ultras, I consume Hammer Gel and Hammer Perpetuum exclusively. I consume the gel using the 5 serving Hammer flasks. I carry the perpetuum in a zip lock baggy and dump a scoop in my water bottle every time I refill it.
If you do decide to use gels, make sure to buy it in the 26 serving Hammer bottles and get 3 or 4 of Hammer's 5 serving flasks for the trail. These are very easy to use while hiking or running.

Frequent food consumption in small amounts is key.

Your joints should improve with training and REST.

Keep it up.

p.s.
If you're willing to spend the money, Hammer Recoverite is great after a workout to speed muscle recovery.
You could also just buy an 8oz or 16oz jar of Glutamine from a vitamin store and take 1/2 to 1 teaspoon after workouts. Glutamine is an amino acid that speeds muscle rebuilding.

Go to the Hammer web site they have lots of good nutrition info.

[Nate Davis]

Greg — I'm sure hitting over 3 MPH won't be a problem, at least on distances of 15-20 miles. Part of the issue was that I would continually catch myself drifting into a relaxed pace after 7 miles or so. I had to keep reminding myself that I was trying to go fast.

Art — I will definitely try out the Hammer products. With this many people recommending them, I'd be stupid not to.

[Nate Davis]

Something just occurred to me:

The trail I'll be hiking crosses the Connecticut River, which is maybe a 1/4 mile wide, quite deep, and heavily trafficked by all sorts of boats. Basically, it'd be unsafe to swim across it, especially after hiking 27 miles that day. Hiking to the nearest bridge and back adds 10.1 miles, according to Google Maps.

Most through hikers of this trail arrange for a boat ride or barter for one at the boat ramp where the ramp meets the water. Since this is something all hikers are forced to do, if I pay someone $20 to ferry me across, is my hike still considered unsupported?

[Jay Bonzani]

It is nice to see that someone else is taking on what might be just a little too much. I find that the things in life that really test my mind and body are the ones that bring a real sense of accomplishment and joy. Keep your eyes on the prize and you will accomplish more then you think possible. It is amazing what the body will do when the mind has the will to make it!

[David Chenault]

"What do I need to do to keep my joints from hurting? Is it as simple as slowly building up my mileage (and therefore the necessary muscles)?"

I'd say that is exactly what you need to do to avoid pain. As Art noted, don't overdo it. It might take a few years to build up to the point where 20 mile days aren't a big deal, but it's worth doing it right the first time. I battled knee issues and IT band syndrome back in my running days, and the time and frustration necessary to kick a chronic overuse injury was immeasurably frustrating.

Gels certainly work. I've used Hammer products, and hated them. The gels were tolerable, Heed was gross, and Perpetuum makes me what to barf just thinking about it. I like Gu the best, but find that junk food works just as well, and is a lot cheaper. For multiday stuff I do indulge in Clif and especially Probars. Super tasty, great nutritional balance, and tons of calories in small package. Good stuff.

Basically, you want to by psyched to eat it even when you feel bad. That might be space food, junk food, PB and J, cheeseburgers, etc. Once you hit the wall, all bets are off.

[David Chenault]

As for the boat crossing, I have no idea what the "official" rules are in the hiking community. I'd say go for it. Hiking 10 miles there and back just for the rules police seems, forgive me, stupid.

I'll say good job when you get this done, but in the end, you're probably the only person who will really understand what you went through or give a darn. Make yourself happy. Don't take shortcuts if you can't live with them, but that ought to be the only concern.

Imo.

[Art …]

Regarding the $20 boat, this is a really good question that could go either way …
depending on the "Connecticutt rules police" :-)
I just don't know.

Regarding Dave's condemnation of Perpetuum, I guess you love it or hate it. I like it so much I drink it as a snack even when I'm not running.
I put 1 scoop (about 125 cal.) into a 20oz water bottle and shake really well.

[Anonymous]

"I'll say good job when you get this done, but in the end, you're probably the only person who will really understand what you went through or give a darn. Make yourself happy. Don't take shortcuts if you can't live with them, but that ought to be the only concern."

+1 Couldn't have said it better.

[Nate Davis]

Not to get too colorful, but chafing becomes a bit of a problem after 15 miles or so. I'm sure people must have strategies for this other than just dealing with it. Any suggestions?

[Jeffs Eleven]

Bodyglide… mmmm

better than sex

[David Chenault]

An indelicate subject perhaps but a fact of life. Several steps to take:

-Slim down. I almost always chafe around my (urrhmm) booty after 30 or so miles. When I'm especially lean this is less of a problem.

-Patagonia lightweight capilene boxer briefs. One of the best inventions ever. These wick sweat and prevent chaffing (for me!) much better than the mesh liner found in many running type shorts. I cut the liner out of all mine years ago.

-Short shorts! Ventilation and cool (ie less sweaty) legs and what not are a very good thing. On big hikes I wear shorts until it gets pretty darn cold.

-Bodyglide is your friend. REI sells it in little, personal sized sticks just like a deodorant stick. Easy to carry, easy to apply, effective. Use it early and often. For ultra races and big days, I apply a generous coat to the relevant areas before I even get on the trail. Petroleum Jelly and Desitin also work, but not as well and are rather messy to use.

[Anonymous]

"Bodyglide… mmmm

better than sex"

Huh? ;}

[EndoftheTrail]

Something ye old geezers don't get.

[Joshua Gilbert]

Nate, I wanted to mention this a few days ago when I first read this thread, but I got sidetracked.

You mentioned that your toes hurt a little after 10 miles or so, from jamming in the front of your shoes? I would say for sure you need to go up a half size in your shoes. When I trained for my first marathon, I thought that my shoes fit perfectly until I started hitting the teens for mileage, at which point I discovered the joy of the black toenail. fit definitely needs to be your first priority, and you need to break the shoes in somewhat before the big event. There are ways to lace your shoes that help keep your heel locked back as well

chafing? definitely Bodyglide, I put in anywhere that I chafe. Be sure to wear the same shirt and shorts/underwear for training that plan on wearing when you do your hike, you often find spots that chafe after long miles that you didn't know about previously.

Food, just a word of advice, if you use gels, you might want to stay away from caffeinated ones, they always send me looking for a bathroom.

River crossing: well, anyone who pooh-poohs your effort because you didn't risk getting decapitated by a boat's prop needs to grow up. That being said, how about bringing a seylor trail boat (much cheaper than an alpacka) and paddling across the river? you could ditch it on the other side (have a friend pick it up later)and as a bonus, you get to look ridiculous, running through the woods with a couple of paddle blades sticking out of your pack.

best of luck!

[Ken Thompson]

My 18th wedding anniversary is coming up, What have I been missing!?

[Nate Davis]

I've used Under Armour boxer-briefs in the past with some success, but apparently they're not cutting it anymore. I'll check out the Patagonias. Any other suggestions? Seems like a lot of people use merino.

I'll be picking up one of those bodyglide sticks today.

And Josh, I'll definitely be going up a half size with my next pair of shoes. This other pair is just about to wear out, so I'm trying to get it through the last of the winter season and then I'll pick up the new ones.

I've been looking around but still haven't decided on a model yet. I figure that being a bigger guy, I need some cushioning for the longer miles I'll be doing, but light weight is pretty important as well. I'm thinking maybe the La Sportiva Wildcats. I'll probably start a thread on this in the next week or two; there's no beating the information that people on this forum have.

[James Patsalides]

I switched last year to EMS TechWick boxer-briefs, after a very extensive search to replace my tattered underarmor! I think they turned out to be the cheapest tech fabric undies I could find and I have to say, the quality and durability is excellent, and I have not had any issues with chaffing or lost elasticity. I think they're a better fit (for me, anyway) than the underarmors. Unfortunately, they were only available in black or silver, so my normal neon green or orange color choices were a little restricted. Ah, well, we have to make compromises in the spirit of ultralight, I suppose. ;-)

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