Golite has Officially Lost Their Mind

No, GoLite hasn't lost their mind. In a sense, you might even argue that they found it.

As I've written before, when GoLite first came out we couldn't sell their product for beans in a retail environment. The people who would buy the minimalistic, frameless sil sacks were far, far on the fringe of backpacking. Most people wouldn't give the packs so much as a glance; those who did take notice usually laughed, almost, at the unfinished look and flimsiness of the products. While there were (and are) some people concerned primarily with ounces, most people are looking for more comfort, durability, and quality finish.

The weight gains in GoLite packs do indeed bring the line more mainstream. But the packs are still not mainstream packs. Truly "mainstream" backpacks still start out around 4 pounds or more. Incidentally, the Jam has the same basic "frame" as a Vapor Trail; the VT has a wafer-thin sheet of plastic, the Jam has stiff pieces of foam in the backpanel. Having played with both, I find the support between the two roughly equivalent… and I don't think most people would consider Granite Gear a mainstream company, per se. Mainstream is more the realm of Osprey, Gregory, Arc'Teryx, and so forth. Smaller companies like GoLite and Granite Gear can be found in better shops or shops with more UL interest.

Some of the GoLite product line changes just make sense. Fer example, the biggest "beef" w/their packs has been the miniscule hipbelt pads, so they're improving the hipbelt. "Feature creep" that we've seen on many of the packs just makes them more accessible and "realistic" for more end-users. I am surprised at the weight of the double-wall Edens, but they're still relatively light as compared to the rest of the market.

As has been discussed in another "GoLite has gone to the dark side" thread, one could argue that they're actually bringing the mainstream to the light side. Major gear manufacturers have been striving to cut weight of their products… you might even argue that the Exos only came about because of the influence of GoLite on mainstream manufacturers.

All that said, they do need to keep an eye on their background. If they start broaching the 4# pack range and getting into big-ticket ($350-ish) packs, then they've gone too far. You can't take a company seriously if they're known (and named!) for lightweight product, but their product weighs about the same as everything else on the market. I don't think the company is there… I just hope they don't get there.

"Fer example, the biggest "beef" w/their packs has been the miniscule hipbelt pads, so they're improving the hipbelt."

Hardly necessary with a frameless pack, with which one should carry around 20lbs. At 2 lbs for the Jam – put a frame in it and call it a day already. I still chuckle when I hear folks complain about the hipbelt on a frameless pack – the load transfer is very minimal in a frameless pack even given a sleeping pad. The torso will collapse at anything over about 20lbs. Carrying 30 pounds in a frameless pack is going to be uncomfortable with or without a belt. What you really need is wide padded shoulder straps and a waist belt (not hip belt) that keeps the pack snug. YMMV.

I predict a lot of big sales on Golite at the end of 2010.

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When it comes to weight, a lot depends on where the weight is. For example, a Vapor Trail is (relatively) heavy because it has a big thick hip belt and a frame. I like both (a lot). It doesn't have many zippers or other bells or whistles, so you can figure that most of the weight is in those two areas. Now, it isn't perfect (I would prefer an even simpler design, with cords instead of straps, no side stretchy fabric, etc.) but it is obvious just looking at it that is has a very simple design. The only way they could lose significant weight (without changing comfort) would be to lose the things I just mentioned and switch to Cuben.

On the other hand, the GoLite backpack has lots of compartments, a big zipper and who knows what else. I understand the value of this — it is nice to be able to quickly get to your stuff. However, this adds weight and does nothing to improve comfort. Again, I have nothing against extra pack weight, I just want that extra pack weight to either increase capacity or comfort. I am not convinced that the GoLite packs add either.

I agree with Brad, they may be losing the hardcore BPL crowd, but they will gain market share elsewhere. In the end sounds like a good business strategy to me.

This isn't a VT:Jam discussion, per se, but as point in fact… "lots of compartments, a big zipper and who knows what else" is a bit misguided. There is one compartment, and one 15"-ish #4-ish zipper for that compartment on the Jam. There are hipbelt pockets as well, which it seems is an option that most people add on to their custom ULA and MLD packs. The shoulder straps VT:Jam are pretty comparable, the "frames" are pretty comparable… but the VT hipbelt has been vastly superior. I frankly have no preference for one pack or the other, but if we're going to try to compare things on an objective basis the facts are important.

Did they change their umbrella? Some other sites say it weighs 10 oz, but the Golite site says 8 oz.

I have four GoLite products. One is a Hut1 tarptent that I got back in '05 before I knew about this site. It weighs 16 oz on my scale. This was a huge improvement on my 4.5 lb non-freestanding kelty tent I had used on the entire JMT the year before (only used on 3 nights).

Now my tarptent seems heavy, and I have trouble convincing my non UL aware friends that it can be used as a 2 person tent. I have been skeptical of golite shelters as they do seem heavier than other options. Although the new poncho/tarp looks good.

My other GoLite pieces are the Quest pack (3lb 3oz), shorts w/pockets (can't recall the weight, 2-3 oz i think), and a drimove shirt silk wieght (1 oz).

Although over 3 pounds, I like the quest pack. I use it when I need to bring a bear canister. When I load up all my gear (and a five pound weight into the bear canister) into this pack and then move it into my friends jam pack, I like the feel better on my framed quest with thick hip pads. This pack is a middle of the road pack, but it suits my UL needs.

As for the two pieces of clothing: I really like them. The Drimove shirt is great for wearing around camp or for hiking on hot days. I get to bring a second shirt for only 1 0z. This lets my wash my base layer that I both hike and sleep it. Unfortunately, they don't carry these products anymore.

I would guess this is because of the move to selling their clothing to runners. The drimove shirt I have doesn't look like it will last long, especially if you wash it. I figure runners are more likely to choose a still-light 3oz shirt that will last longer for the $40 price tag.

GoLite still seems to be pushing the mainstream market in the weight conscious direction. Therefore, their name fits because they are telling the "major companies," and "the bulk of consumers, to GoLite.

"I agree with Brad, they may be losing the hardcore BPL crowd, but they will gain market share elsewhere."

This is the point. No they will not gain marketshare. Compared to 'Mainstream' offerings they offer nothing in terms of product features that would sway the 'Mainstream.' In fact, many of their products are heavier with fewer features.

They lost the hardcore UL years ago.

Their is a question of which market they are after when we speak of them gaining market share. It appears some people may believe they will not get market share of any market. That could be entirely valid.

It still appears to me that most Mainstream packs are in the 4lb range. Though each company may have one or two that dip lower. I would not say this applies to their shelters. Also, it is in my opinion that their packs are cheaper than most Mainstream companies. Price is important this day and age. Especially for those Mainstream consumers who don't agree that 2oz is a lot of un-needed weight.

Anybody else notice how the I-hate-golite threads always start when their new gear first comes out?

I bet David will be the first to buy that Golite Peak when it goes on sale? Kidding.

"I bet David will be the first to buy that Golite Peak when it goes on sale? Kidding."

I might when it gets blown out for 50% off. Then I can do some surgery on it to bring the weight down.

The mesh on the backpanel is important to many people. It looks finished, and doesn't slide around, and keeps your shirt a little drier. More padded hip belt is important to many people too. Seems like a better pack, and feels more comfy since it doesn't dig into your hip bones.

The 2 lb VT is a problem for people who want to put things like water or fuel bottles in the side pockets. The VT also doesn't have a kangaroo / shove-it pocket to put rain gear & a fleece jacket into. (Although I'd rather see a full height pocket with an elastic top on the Jam).

I'd rather have the ability to thread my padded camera case onto the hipbelt, and I stop for lunch so I don't need storage for energy bars – but many people will probably like the hip belt pockets.

Seems like Go Lite has added "good" weight to me if they want to sell the pack to more mainstream people.

On the other hand, for 4 ounces more – why wouldn't people go for the frame & ventilated back of the EXOS ? Fabric durability maybe 1 reason. I wonder how hard it would be to add a pair of 1/2" alumimum stays into the Jam ?

ps: Does the 2010 Jam still have an S-shaped back like the originals ?

Hi John – the Vapor Trail for mid 2009 and 2010 allows the lower side compression straps to thread through the pocket as an option. FYI.

+2

"i'm with brad on this one."

+1

Not everyone goes SUL super nano ultralite, lighter than you, I'm flying. Seems the huge majority here are happy with a baseweight of 5 to 8 kg. And nothing is wrong with that.

When chatting with a sales rep at Midwest Mountaineering a while ago, I asked him about this issue (re: 2009 Jam wieght increases of 2008 model). He said that GoLite was in a bind. They weren't light enough to go after the market served by GG, ZPacks, etc. but didn't have the bells and whistles of main-stream packs (and thus didn't attract those buyers). In such, they were in the middle. And they weren't selling.

GoLite's gear is following my analogy of the weight pendulum when you go UL. At first, you cut everything and get down to the lowest weight possible. The pendulum swings fast from heavy toward the lowest weight for you (remember, HYOH). And then you add a few things back in for comfort, etc. (read: Thermarest, pillow, sleep socks, wp/b socks, etc). And then your pack weight swings back up. And you cut again, and the pendulum swings down, less now. Repeat the process, and you eventually settle on an optimum weight.

Now apply this to a business situation. As it has been noted, GoLite couldn't sell some of their items initially because they were too far out there (read: the quilt, the Fur). So they scaled back, added. Tarps disappeared in favor of pyramid-like shelters. Somehow, the Reed pants went away. etc. In the end it all comes down to money.

I do believe GoLite has lost their mind a little bit. But they also need to make money, because if they don't make money they go away. The goal of every company in a capitalist economy, regardless of their mission statement is two-fold: 1) make money; 2) grow. This is done through innovation, change, and finding products and services to fit a market or need, etc.

If GoLite can't make money, there is no GoLite. If that happens, we won't be debating what they have done, but what they did to cause their demise. Their 2010 line all comes down to a business decision, and if it works, so be it. The fringe will always be supplied by cottage gear makers and similar niche companies.

I'd like to see GoLite return to their roots. Ray Jardine, as odd as his ideas may be (or seem), designed some great gear that was trail tested or based on trail-tested ideas. Take these ideas, apply modern fabrics, materials, and techniques and sell that. There may be some intellectual property issues, but that is another discussion.

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One more thing to consider is the retailers. REI and others have very "customer friendly" return policies. The UL cottage industry makes it very clear that UL gear will not stand up to abuse and they don't warrant it to last forever. A mainstream company selling through REI needs to expect returns when someone uses their silnylon pack as a climbing haul bag.

Golite has never been for the fringe. Not since they first started. And I think that was a good thing. As I said Golite made lightweight durable gear for reasonable prices. In the beginning they may have had some silnylon packs but they wisely switched to dyneema.
Even the 09 Jam wasn't so bad, most people wanted hip pockets and the ability to use the compression straps to carry gear on the front. I personally thought they went a little overboard and added too much weight as I don't believe a mesh back panel does much of anything to keep your back dry. The thing is, the 10 version is over the top! The Jam already carried probably better than any other frameless out there and the best way to improve it would be to just add a frame.
I think all this cushy mesh is a marketing gimmik, it says look Im comfortable -honest! the pack was already comfortable as long as you used it as it was designed- for under 20 lbs or so.
I defiantly consider the Vapor trail and Exos to be mainstream packs. The VT has been one of the most popular thru hiker packs for years and in no way do I think the 10 jam can compete with it or the Ospreys. In other words -who are the new jam/pinnacle packs for?
Their tents are in worse shape. Ya, like their pack line they have some good core products like the poncho tarp and shangra la (HEX). But in no way do I see them competing against BA or TT or even MSR! So maybe they should continue to sell their core UL products but start offering mainstream packs to grow instead of dropping the UL products.

"My lovely wife took my Magellan Backpacker Poncho to the Post Office and weighed it for me on their postal scale. The final tally was 9.5 ounces for a ripstop nylon polyurethane coated poncho. If memory serves me I paid right at or below $15.00 for this poncho 2 years ago at Academy Sports.

I'll keep my $65.00 or my $140.00 dollars for the higher priced spread if all they can do is save me 1.5 ounces.
I was interested in the GoLite poncho tarp last year and after comparing the relative sizes I figured the difference had to be the wieght. I was still set on the purchase until my wife gave me the news from the postal scale."

You're confusing poncho-tarps with ponchos. The GoLite Poncho Tarp doubles as a tarp which is the key difference here. It's also unfair to compare the MSRP of one product with the clearance price you found for another product. The Magellan Backpacker Poncho retails for $45.

I met Coup a few years back. After chatting with him I'm under the distinct impression that he's not an idiot, and understands business. Wish him luck an shop elsewhere. No hard feelings. The only constant in life is change……

"Not everyone goes SUL super nano ultralite, lighter than you, I'm flying. Seems the huge majority here are happy with a baseweight of 5 to 8 kg. And nothing is wrong with that."

True – but when you neither appeal to the SUL crowd or the traditional crowd, now that your products are, in some cases, heavier…then what?

By the way, I disagree that a huge majority here would have a baseweight of 8kg. That is blatantly ridiculous and I suggest you head over to http://www.backpacker.com. That crowd is over there.

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Nothing wrong with 18lbs. Even 12. But that isn't the majority of the members of BPL, unless it has changed over the past 5 years.