Jan 18, 2010 at 8:54 am #1254230
Tell me why the 2010 Jam weighs more than the 2010 Pinnacle?
The 2010 LiteSpeed is now 15L smaller but weighs the same as the 49L 2009 model.Jan 18, 2010 at 9:03 am #1563877
@tippymcstaggerLocale: North Texas
I think it is an error. There seem to be others in the light backpack category.Jan 18, 2010 at 9:32 am #1563885
I think that once you're arrived in the UL world (think cuben tarp or silnylon tarptents, etc.), you are no longer part of GoLite's target market. And thus, you shouldn't be surprised (or disappointed) that GoLite isn't fulfilling your gear needs any longeer.Jan 18, 2010 at 9:46 am #1563887
I think GoLite was one of those companies that was really great when it came out but seems to have stood still while others have moved forward and kept up with the times.Jan 18, 2010 at 9:57 am #1563893
I think the weight listed for the 2010 Pinnacle is actually the 2009 weight. So they forgot to update it which is why the Jam appears heavier.
How about that new poncho tarp? Using 15D silnylon is great. I forgot the weight spec on the old one, but the new one is 8oz (212g) which is about 4oz lighter than my old GoLite poncho tarp.
Wow they're claiming 5" of loft for their new 3 season quilt.Jan 18, 2010 at 10:07 am #1563896
@dangLocale: Pacific Northwet
Click on the "comparison" link at the right under the individual pack pages. It brings up a chart that appears to be more accurate. It shows the Pinnacle 2 oz heavier than the Jam. It also lists weights by pack size.
On another note, it does appear that the Shangri-La shelters (the few that remain) and their nests have been lightened up.Jan 18, 2010 at 10:14 am #1563898
@mikefaedundeeLocale: Under a bush in Scotland
The new Shangrila 5 and inner looks interesting for group camping.Jan 18, 2010 at 10:29 am #1563899
I hope it is an error (wouldn't be surprised).
The Shangri-la shelters now use lighter materials but the weight is offset by using taped seams. No comment about the pricing? $200 for the Shangri-La 1 (!). Their other shelter line looks really heavy for a company that is called Golite.
All the pricing is a bit aggressive to me. It makes the cottage produced gear seam….reasonable.
Maybe I am grumpy but 2lbs for a frameless 50L pack seems mental.Jan 18, 2010 at 11:47 am #1563917
@cameronLocale: Midland, Texas
David I agree that two pounds for a frameless pack is a bit much. For that weight you could get a nice Osprey Exos (with a frame) at any REI. How is Golite going to compete with that?
Here's what I don't understand. I don't expect Golite to be as cutting edge as say GG but they aren't as big as say Gregory or Osprey. They have some nice products but they seem to be moving out of the niche market where they have more to offer and into an area where they will have to compete directly with better established brands.Jan 18, 2010 at 11:54 am #1563919
Didn't they claim 5" for the original Ultra20 as well? Its probably just more accurate this time.Jan 18, 2010 at 3:28 pm #1563965
@jshorttLocale: North Carolina
GoLite reports loft on quilts in a double layer to be consistent with sleeping bags. Golite's single layer quilt loft is 2.5". My original ultra 20 was pretty much 2.5" or 5" doubled.
JamieJan 18, 2010 at 3:42 pm #1563967
@servingkoLocale: Intermountain West
We will have to wait until someone gets their hands on the "new"gear to really know for sure. I have the 2009 Shangri-La 3 and it weighs 24oz on my scale, the same as the 2010. The nest is much lighter for 2010 but I only use mine for car camping and don't really care what it weighs.
As for the quilts, if the 2010 models do really come in at the stated weights, I think the older version is going to be the more desireable of the three. The listed girths may be a bit roomier on the 2010, but not enough to justify the added bulk. My 2009 Ultra reg is 18.4 oz without the straps and 19.1 with them. Warmer and lighter than the new Ultra 1+.Jan 18, 2010 at 4:34 pm #1563981
@retropumpLocale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
It's called feature creep, and is inevitable if you move into the more mainstream markets.Jan 18, 2010 at 4:53 pm #1563986
If it wasn't for the portly packs, I don't think people would be viewing the 2010 line so negatively. Here are some positive things I've noticed about their 2010 line:
1) The new Roan 800 Plateau jacket looks to provide a lot of warmth for it's 16oz. It's perhaps comparable to Montbell's Alpine Down jkt.
2) At 8oz and $80, the updated GoLite Poncho tarp looks to be the clear winner over all other poncho tarps except for cuben ones and poncho tarps that setup to be more than just a tarp (ie. the SMD Gatewood cape). For example, I don't know how one could justify spending $155 on the 8.8oz MLD silnylon poncho tarp when the GoLite is half the price and lighter.
EDIT: The outgoing poncho tarp weighed 11oz (283g) as measured by BPL, so this really is a big weight savings.
3) The new quilts are still using 15D nylon for most of the shell and Pertex at the ends just like the 2009 quilt, so it seems that weight increase has come primarily from adding more down, rather than elsewhere like heavier fabrics.
4) Maybe this isn't new, but 92g (3oz) for a short sleeve polyester baselayer top is impressive. $40 is a good price too.Jan 18, 2010 at 4:58 pm #1563987
@dsmontgomeryLocale: one snowball away from big trouble
I think Golite is going the way of the Jetboil Flash. A focus on features over function. Maybe they, too, need a haiku hailing our disappointment.
I think their move to high recycled content was a great one. It's the closest thing I've seen to Patagonia's practices with clothing, brought to gear. If only they had stuck to their minimalist design philosophy…Jan 18, 2010 at 5:44 pm #1563999
@benwallerLocale: Northern California
GoLite's gear market has never been Gossamer Gear's or Six Moon's or MLD's. It's pretty obvious that this guy and his woman are both way too smart too bet the farm on the bleeding edge, so I think a more cautious approach to criticism would be prudent.
Because the truth is that there just aren't enough uber-liters to make a decent payday for anybody serious about growing a business into an enterprise. The way I see it GoLite is a clothing company with some respectable representation in the gear area, more for presence than effect. Anybody can make a pack, just look around (it ain't rocket science), but few can do what GoLite does in the apparel area.
So no, GoLite has definitely not lost their mind(s). They're doing what works for their enterprise by delivering value in accordance with their core compencies. Looks like a pretty good business model to me.Jan 18, 2010 at 5:47 pm #1564002
One other thing though that GoLite hasn't lost: its sloppy and awkward to use website.Jan 18, 2010 at 5:50 pm #1564003
@creachenLocale: East Bay
I really miss there tarps with the beaks. Golite does not have a patten on them? (Beaks) Do they?
PS: My avatar is with a "OLD SCHOOL" Newt Jacket.
I still have that today- Bug-proof and breathable.Jan 18, 2010 at 6:27 pm #1564018
If Golite is going for the mainstream they are about to get their rear handed to themselves in the marketplace. This is the worst product line they have ever had:
-2 lb frameless pack that will compete with 2lb framed packs (i.e. VT and Exos). The mainstream will choose a framed pack if the weights are the same.
-3lb, 7oz single walled hooped tent for solo use. Shall I name all of the sub 3 lb mainstream solo tents that are available?
-A line of tarptents that require inner bug tents to be completely bug proof, and that are heavier than comparable mainstream double walled tents that have a dedicated pole structure. The bug inner for the Shangri-La 1 has barely over 15 sq feet of space. The mainstream will choose more room for the same weight and for a lower cost.
-Overall pricing is much higher than last year and a.) makes them more expensive than some cottage manufacturers and b.) makes them the same price as other mainstream manufacturers while offering fewer distinguishable features.Jan 18, 2010 at 6:43 pm #1564026
@b-g-2-2Locale: Silicon Valley
Golite is probably thinking about a name change to GoHeavy.
–B.G.–Jan 18, 2010 at 6:57 pm #1564029
@cameronLocale: Midland, Texas
John may have a point. When I went to a Golite warehouse sale they had plenty of packs and tents, but I was impressed by the amount of clothing that was for sale. There was also a lot of running gear. I would guess the market for that stuff is a lot bigger than the market for packs of any kind. People all over run, and wear fleeces but wouldn't dream of hiking off into the woods and camping out under a poncho. In that case judging Golite on their packs and shelters may be too narrow.
I still think Golite is going to gradually lose more of the UL market. If thats their choice more power to them. I hope Golite stays somewhat in the market however because its a more accessible brand to your average Joe than MLD or GG.Jan 18, 2010 at 7:19 pm #1564039
To be fair — I think they're taking the Middle Way. Not a bad choice, really.Jan 18, 2010 at 7:34 pm #1564044
@newtonLocale: Southeastern Louisiana
> At 8oz and $80, the updated GoLite Poncho tarp looks to be the clear winner over all other poncho tarps except for cuben ones and poncho tarps that setup to be more than just a tarp (ie. the SMD Gatewood cape). For example, I don't know how one could justify spending $155 on the 8.8oz MLD silnylon poncho tarp when the GoLite is half the price and lighter.
My lovely wife took my Magellan Backpacker Poncho to the Post Office and weighed it for me on their postal scale. The final tally was 9.5 ounces for a ripstop nylon polyurethane coated poncho. If memory serves me I paid right at or below $15.00 for this poncho 2 years ago at Academy Sports.
I'll keep my $65.00 or my $140.00 dollars for the higher priced spread if all they can do is save me 1.5 ounces.
I was interested in the GoLite poncho tarp last year and after comparing the relative sizes I figured the difference had to be the wieght. I was still set on the purchase until my wife gave me the news from the postal scale.
Weight is weight and $$$ are $$$. If all I can save is 1.5 ounces and I have to spend an additional $65.00 or more I'll carry the 1.5 ounces.
Party On ! 2010
NewtonJan 18, 2010 at 8:30 pm #1564064
"To be fair — I think they're taking the Middle Way. Not a bad choice, really."
The middle would be okay. It's what they have done over the past 3 years. But now they have gone too far to the mainstream. Heck, they are mainstream now.Jan 18, 2010 at 8:39 pm #1564066
@maynard76Locale: New England
I think Golite is risking not being competitive with either the UL or mainstream market.
Golite should concentrate on its clothing line and really scale back on its gear. Go back to its core products and stop being over ambitious and trying to offer something for everyone just to say that they do.
Golite was known for making durable lightweight gear for a fair price. It wasn't the lightest out there but it was light, well designed and well liked. My 08 Jam2 is one of the best packs out there.
They should make their money in clothing, keep their core products and not put anything on the market until they really have something to write home about- how about a double wall freestanding to compete with the Fly creek? or a lightweight external frame?
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