SPOT vs PLB (now that prices have changed)

One of the biggest problems with equipment that is used ONLY in an emergency is that they may have "broken" and you have no idea until you try to use it. The BEST type of emergency equipment is something that you use normally AND for emergencies. That way you know it will work when you really need it. How may EPIRBs have failed to work correctly in an emergency? How many fail to work when being re-certified?

I think the new Spot is the way to go. More expensive for sure, but you get more for your money.

And as far as relying one these type of devices shouldn't replace basic survival and first aid knowledge, they will GREATLY enhance your ability to survive. Rescue is typically the best survival tool. ;-)

Has ANY website published an objective comparison test of the SPOT and all other commercially available PLBs?

I think this would be very enlightening for all of us and extremely important to know if there are any significant OPERATIONAL RELIABILITY differences.

BPL would be doing a great service to all backpacking/outing folks if it had someone with technical expertise (Roger Caffin?) do these tests in a scientific manner.

**If BPL did these tests they should be published so even non-members can read them in full, they are that important.

Eric

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/spot_satellite_personal_tracker.html

also see:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews?forum_thread_id=11633&cat=Miscellaneous%20Products&cid=65

both within the first five or six threads using the BPL search function

There was a review of Spot 2, very complete and professional, that someone posted in BPL maybe 6-8 months ago. It was not really a comparison of PLBs, but was an independent and objective test of a pre-production Spot 2.
I tried to search for it but can't find it. Sure wish BPL had a better search engine.

"… and MOST importantly, the message light which tells you FOR SURE that your message got through."

This statement is incorrect. The light only tells you the message was sent. You have no way of knowing if it was received. The SPOT is not a two way communications device.

As others have stated here, the 210 has much more transmit power than the SPOT. In addition, it's antenna is extensible, making it a much more efficient radiator. A satellite in geosynchronous orbit can receive the GPS position from the 210. If the 210 can't get a GPS lock, the 210 will still be located by American and Russian satellites in low earth orbit measuring Doppler shift. There is no such position determination backup with the SPOT.

I've read the trail journals of SPOT owners. They like them, but they all testify that sattelite reception of position, and "I'm ok" messages is hit and miss.

>This statement is incorrect. The light only tells you the >message was sent. You have no way of knowing if it was >received. The SPOT is not a two way communications device.

Absolutely true it is not a two way communications device, but the first gen gave you no way of knowing if the message had even been sent so in other words, you didn't know how long to wait before turning it off/putting it away. Now you know at a glance if you have GPS signal and if the message has been sent (ie went through to the satellite network).

I am just one data point, but I have had 100% success of my messages going through both in deep forest in the Appalachians and jungles near the Amazon in Peru last month.

I will say though that the 406 MHz broadcast of the PLB's is a good feature. OTOH, I have read some good stories of SPOT signals leading to rescues like this one(forgive the guy's poor writing skills and language):
http://www.14ers.com/php14ers/tripreport.php?trip=5658&parmpeak=Torreys+Peak&cpgm=tripmain

The pros and cons of each are well stated in this thread. One strong pro for the SPOT is that third option of a message that says, "I'll be overdue, but I am fine." or something similar.

Form personal experience while carrying neither cell phone or GPS, I was okay, but over due for two days. My wife contacted SAR. Standing on a trail alongside a stream and in the woods, I watched the searching helicopter fly just over the trees, so close to me I could even see what the searchers were wearing. I mention the stream because that made the opening in the trees much wider than the trail. I was waving bright orange stuff sack that had a sleeping pad in it for stiffness. The copter turned just below me and went back up the slope. Although I had assumed they turned because they saw me, that was wrong they never saw me and even went right over my head on another pass. Speaking to the helicopter crew later, they said that they hear my same story often from folks they are searching for. Even on a trail, lost people are not easy to find.

Having either device in an emergency situation could save a lot of time in a rescue attempt, if it gives out coordinates.

Now I check in regularly with a cell phone, but my wife has learned that no call means no reception, or so she now hopes. On the JMT that can mean for an entire week. There was no cell phone reception from Red Meadows to Whitney. (VVR has a public satellite phone for hiker use.) Muir Ranch has e-mail, I think)

On the JMT I had wished I had carried the SPOT. You could spend a long time waiting for help if you depended only on word of mouth to get help, and word of mouth as to exactly where you are can often be erroneous.

Read Roleigh Martin's post on page one, re Ranger and SPOT rescue.

I did get rescue insurance from the same company associated with SPOT. They covered me for just a two weeks while on the trail.

http://www.geosalliance.com/index.html

Can you just buy the SPOT service for a month or two at a tome, or do you have to buy for the whole year. It would be nice to be able to have the service activated only for the time you would be hiking.

This place has tested them and just finished one about the
SPOT 2.

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=187312

Check out the awesome information comparing PLB & SPOT technology over at: http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?f=181&t=22083

As that poster and the one here said, the http://www.equipped.com/ site has some great testing data to chew over.

Also, check out this article where two SPOTs failed to get out an SOS during the same tragedy. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_15314187

I carry a FastFind for one reason: I hike alone, am a senior, and don't want folks to have to look all over hell and gone in the worst case. Although I realize that if I get blasted by lightning, or the like, even that won't work. So I'm super careful, a walking weenie. Were I concerned about anxieties of immediate family, I would rent a sat phone, as cell phones do not work well in the areas where I hike in northern New England and the Rockies. The many tests/reviews on the SPOT leave me without a sense of it being reliable when surrounded by high mountains or dense forest.

A couple years ago while I was acclimating in the upper Cache La Poudre before a hike, a woman came by with her kids looking for her husband, who had not shown up many hours ago at the trailhead when and where he was expected to come out after a six day hike alone. She was beyond distraught. Were I he, I would definitely borrow the extra bucks to rent a sat phone, especially if hiking alone.

If the SPOT fails, it will leave loved ones expecting a message feeling even worse than if there were no SPOT and no expectation. On a longer thu-hike, there are places where a cell will work or facilities with land phones and/or email to get out periodic messages. There are very light sat phones now, almost as light as the FastFind.
Sam

We've been using the SPOT for the past few years here in Southeast Alaska and have had good experiences. I had a satellite phone for a number of years, but passed it on to some friends who do really special off grid trips– they are now bringing there 15 month old son along with them and wanted the extra buffer of a sat phone.

We spend a lot of time outside away from cell and even VHF/2 meter communication. Since we started using SPOT it has failed to communicate three times, all from deep bays and fjords. Two friends also use SPOT on a regular basis, they have had similar experiences. I don't think a PLB would have made contact in those places either.

I have also had PLBs in my gear in remote areas, but never had to pull the pin. I used to wonder what the Greenland rescue folks would be like if it ever came to that.

The difference between the two is huge. PLBs bring the cavalry, SPOT lets my friends know where we are, how we doing, and — so far it has not been used — that we are experiencing some issues but no one has died yet. And then there is that button with the duct tape over it that calls the coast guard.

Comparing the cost of a PLB with a SPOT over time doesn't seem to be a fair comparison because the latter does so much more than the former.

Joseph, for those times when it failed, is it possible that it was due in part to your high latitude and the satellite was relatively low in the sky?

–B.G.–

It would be great if Spot billed you for the messages that get through instead of an annual fee. I would consider getting another one in that case.

“Joseph, for those times when it failed, is it possible that it was due in part to your high latitude and the satellite was relatively low in the sky?”

It might be a factor in the lack of reception, but I also think that the direction of the fjord’s mouth played a greater part — in the three instances, the mouth opened to the north east. There are not a lot of satellites in that part of the sky. It does work when the fjord opens to the southwest. It also works when we take the time to get some elevation in those places, which is a drag through the alder and devils club.

New flickr tool, and I am not certain this will copy. If not see WIlliam Henry Bay at http://www.flickr.com/photos/umnak

First attempt was way too large — don’t like to use up pages space on images. Sorry for the repeated edits.

I got a Spot II last month for an upcoming hike on the Colorado Trail and have been trying it out here in Maine for a month on day hikes. So far I have been very impressed and have learned a lot. My day hikes are in good cell coverage also, so I have my Spot "OK" message go to my cell phone as a text message so I know right off if my message goes through. The immediate feedback is good for the learning. In almost all instances where I am in an open area (like an open granite area on the trail) the message shows up on my cell phone in 60 seconds. Full foilage is out now and I haven't really tried it there, but I have tried it several times where the trail is a little wider and I can see some sky and I have had very good luck here also, the GPS fix takes a little longer, but I still get a message in 2-3 minutes. These trial messages with my cell have given me a lot of confidence and practical experience. Although the directions say to leave it on for 20 minutes, I don't think I have ever had mine on for 5. All in all I am VERY pleased with this purchase and so is my wife. For the peace of mind for loved ones it was a good investment. I bought the one year subscription for $100 and added the full coverage SAR insurance for $15 more for my upcoming CT hike. Not sure why as I have a Colorado SAR card, but I've wasted $15 on much worse things.

Karl

" I bought the one year subscription for $100 and added the full coverage SAR insurance for $15 more for my upcoming CT hike. Not sure why as I have a Colorado SAR card, but I've wasted $15 on much worse things."

Please be aware that the Colorado SAR card does not provide insurance. It is a donation to an excellent group of volunteers. SAR accepts direct donatations as well.

I hadn't seen anyone mention the fact that SPOT has essentially become a required piece of equipment on Himalayan expeditions in recent years. In large part I believe they are used as proof of summit success.
A recent story on explorers web talks about a next generation iridium device called Solara.
Personally, I think calling for a rescue sounds like a sure path to personal bankruptcy in this day and age, so it would be going from the frying pan into the fire in many cases.
http://www.explorersweb.com/tech/news.php?id=19341

There is a test available for PLB's through a subscription to:
http://www.safelifesystems.com

We spend a lot of time outside away from cell and even VHF/2 meter communication. Since we started using SPOT it has failed to communicate three times, all from deep bays and fjords. Two friends also use SPOT on a regular basis, they have had similar experiences. I don't think a PLB would have made contact in those places either.

I think I'll disagree with you there. The signal on a PLB is 10x stronger, and the satellite coverage is much more extensive. If anything's going to get through, it's a PLB.

HJ

You might want to also check out the ACR PLBs. I purchased one as I am a long time ACR user for sailing (the bigger, float free models, not something you carry or keep on your person). I keep the new, PLB unit on me when sailing in marginal conditions and I've also thought I'll take it backpacking if the situation warrants it.

The feature you may find interesting is that this a PLB with all the reliability that you expect plus it has both a "phone home" feature and a self check feature. There is a catch which is using the phone home feature is hit to battery life but it's there if you want to use it.

-T

The advantages of each system are clear. Decide what is important to you and what your priorities are. The long term difference in cost is not that significant IMO.

I chose SPOT. It works for me. I made my decision based on a 3 year service life. Who knows what will be out there in 6-8 years? If something revolutionary, or even mildly evolutionary, comes out within 3 years I'm going to buy it. After all, my life may depend on it.

McMurdo PLB (tiny and light) start at $280 and are guaranteed for at least 5 years. So if you don't use it – you saved yourself $320. If you did use it – it gives you better chance of being found.

ACR PLB with Link406 service cost $400 for the unit and $59 for premium service with e-mail/sms "I'm OK" message notification with links to google maps to show your location. And they allow you to test an actual SAT distress message link by provisioning a test through the emergency systems.

ACR is expected to release their ResQLink 406 in the next month or two. It is my understanding that is supposed to be small, very light, have access to the 406Link service (I'm OK) and be price competitive with the McMurdo FastFind 210.

This is what I'm waiting to buy. That way you get all the advantages of a real PLB and the ability to send I'm OK messages, all at a low price.

http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=284

http://www.acrelectronics.com/news/product-announcements/2011/07/resqlink-personal-locator-beacon/

John,

Thanks for posting that. 4.6 oz. That's pretty sweet compared to my old Aquafix at 12 oz (yikes, what a brick). It's even an improvement over the McMurdo Fast find (5.3oz)

I'm going to take a serious look at upgrading to the ResQLink. It looks like it may avoid the problem of a one shot antenna deployment that the McMurdo FF 210 (if the antenna is deployed on the McMurdo, it has to be sent back to the factory to be re-stowed).

HJ