SPOT vs PLB (now that prices have changed)

[Hikin’ Jim]

UPDATE: July 21, 2011: FCC approval granted, now available for purchase.

HJ

[John S.]

It'll probably sell like hotcakes.

[Rick Dreher]

Sweet, these are certainly headed in the right direction (lighter, cheaper, simpler). I don't suppose we're allowed to change our own batteries yet? Couldn't tell from the available materials but I don't see a compartment opening in the pictures.

Cheers,

Rick

[Bob Gross]

"I don't suppose we're allowed to change our own batteries yet?"

It might be a liability thing.

If an ordinary consumer replaces the batteries, they might get in right, or they might get in wrong. There is a huge problem if they are in wrong, and the ordinary consumer may not have a good way to test.

So (the company might claim) that they need to replace the batteries so that a trained professional can test it afterward.

Besides, it probably gives the company a good excuse to hit the consumer for a hefty battery replacement fee.

–B.G.–

[Rick Dreher]

Hi Bob,

I suppose it's part of tbe business model, since they're not selling all their users subscriptions, but IIRC both ACR and McMurdo battery replacement is pretty expensive, and not a walk-in proposition. Myself, I'd rather begin each season with a new set of batteries so I didn't have to fret over how long to wait before sending it in.

Somebody will break the mold eventually, as they become more common and cheaper. Batteries just aren't complicated and all the units have self-test modes.

Still, a quarter pound's not bad.

Cheers,

Rick

[W I S N E R !]

Even with battery replacements, a PLB is cheaper long-term.

I have a Fastfind 210. I think it cost like $250 or $275…it was a gift from mom :) I've had it two years.
Batteries are rated for 5-6 years and I can test it once/twice a year.
So that's $275 for 5 years.

In addition to $100-$150 up front, SPOT is $100 minimum (without tracking, etc.) per year right?
That's $500 for 5 years of operation.

So even with battery replacement (or just replacing the whole unit, as I likely will), I like the PLBs better cost-wise…plus I'm not interested in tracking, messaging, etc…just want a simple device to get thrown in a pack when solo for a long time.

Plus, it gives me the option of upgrading the unit every 5 years…Maybe with the ACR.

[Bob Gross]

Most of these devices use a lithium primary battery, and those feature long shelf life, high energy density, low self-discharge, and high reliability. Since the battery is not getting used at all, I see little point in routine replacement except at five years or something.

–B.G.–

[NoCO-Jim]

Best discussion of technologies that I have read:
http://desertexplorer.wordpress.com/2009/11/10/the-spot-messenger-and-personal-locator-beacons/

[Bill Law]

That writeup is perhaps a bit dated (from 2009?).

I'm looking to upgrade my original Spot to the Spot2 and need to decide soon (there's a $50 rebate offer good through end of July).

The discussion of this new ACR unit and 406Link service sounded good. But looking more closely it seems a little disappointing. The ResQLink "I'm OK" messages don't include GPS coordinates. The units that can send coords can only send 12 before the battery needs replacement (ouch, makes the cost of those msgs $10 each). And they seem to want to nickel-and-dime users (much like Spot): $20 more per year to send messages to multiple recipients.

The thing is, I can have the message go to my gmail account and simply forward it to as many recipients as I want.

I'm still unsure about which unit is best (for me). I think some non-emergency msg capability is crucial. Absent that, what happens when I sprain my ankle and am slowly crawling back to my car and am simply going to be a day late getting home? My wife calls 911 because she figures I had a heart attack (I did have that happen, the heart attack, and had to be flown out; and I've had bypass surgery and another angioplasty since then).

The 3 spot messages are perfect: 1- ok, 2-ok but delayed,3-help! Is the ResQLink good enough is the question? And are the extra features of the spot worth the additional $30/year?

The relative merits of the underlying sat technology is a non-issue for me. The spot has worked well enough and the newer model fixes the annoying usage quirks I've experienced. The reality is that I want it more to prevent being rescued when I don't need to be. If I really need rescuing, I'm probably on my last hike regardless. Easier to just leave my body where it is versus flying it out and then bringing it back to scatter my ashes :-).

Anyway, that's my two cents. I thought I'd post because I didn't really see my point of view reflected in the previous comments.

Bill

[Will Webster]

My wife and I bought a Spot 2 last winter, after her mother almost called out SAR when the temperature got down to 20F (we were fine, and weren't even overdue). We figured it could ease some family concern, and possibly prevent an unneeded search. It worked fine on two or three long weekends near home in PA over the winter. Last month we took it for a few days in NH. Before we started I set up a test profile and sent myself the three non-911 messages; no problem. Activated the normal profile, notified our families of our itinerary and that they'd be getting messages, and hit the road. We sent OK messages every evening and morning. When we got out of the woods and back to cell service we called our families, and found out that nothing had gotten through between the first morning and the last evening. They had ended up calling the state police; the person they spoke with had never heard of a Spot and told them that the White Mountains are notorious for bad cell reception. An accurate statement but irrelevant, however it seems to have calmed everybody down sufficiently. In retrospect, I should have done a better job of stressing that no message does NOT mean we are in trouble (much more likely that something is amiss in the chain of electronic devices we were depending on), and I should have sent OK messages at lunch breaks as well, since those were usually at overlooks with presumably better satellite views. I do not think that the failure to get the OK messages out was due to user error; I got the GPS confirmation light every time, the unit was facing up, and I always left the unit running for at least 20 minutes.

The point of all this is, I'm no longer confident that the Spot 2 will get my messages – whether OK or send help – out as needed. On this trip the Spot ended up causing more anxiety than if we didn't have it at all.

[Daryl and Daryl]

My 5 year old ACR PLB was due for a battery replacement so I bought a McMurdo Fastfind on sale for $200. If REI's recent 30% coupon had come along at the right time I could have purchased it for $140.

So my strategy is to keep my costs low and replace it in 5 years or sooner with a better model. The Mcmurdo is less than half the weight and half the cost of the ACR PLB I bought 5 years ago so, so far, the strategy is working.

Anyone know of a use for my 5 year old ACR PLB which is now in need of a new battery? The new battery costs about $200.

[John S.]

Maybe donation to the Boy Scouts of America?

[Hikin’ Jim]

One of the things I don't hear discussed is the fact that a PLB has a much stronger signal and is more likely to get a signal out. Also, there are a lot more satellites in the PLB network than in the network that a SPOT uses, which means that there is a better chance of your signal being detected. Also, SPOT is a private company whereas a PLB is run by an international consortium of governments (US, Russia, etc.). SPOT might not be here in 2 years, but a PLB is pretty much here to stay. A SPOT must get a GPS lock in order for your position to be determined. A PLB can use doppler-shift to determine your position. Lastly, a PLB has a built in homing beacon that operates on a secondary frequency (121.5 MHz). As SAR approaches your position, they can use the secondary frequency to zero in on you.

SPOT of course has all the nice levels of messaging. Can't beat the SPOT for non-emergency use.

HJ

[Bob Gross]

One of the things I don't hear discussed is the fact that a PLB has a much stronger signal and is more likely to get a signal out."

The reliability of getting a signal _received_ is based on a lot more than just the signal strength.

"Lastly, a PLB has a built in homing beacon that operates on a secondary frequency (121.5 MHz). As SAR approaches your position, they can use the secondary frequency to zero in on you."

If you are not able to move, then the GPS coordinates that were sent out will be the same as the current coordinates when SAR approaches, so there isn't much gained by the 121.5 beacon. If you are moving, then the coordinates that were sent out may be different from the current coordiates when SAR approaches, in which case they may detect the beacon moving away from the coordinates. I wonder if SAR is supposed to go after the coordinates or go after the beacon? I picture the scenario where you abandon a sinking ship as you activate the PLB, and then the PLB is washed away from you.

–B.G.–

[Daryl and Daryl]

John,

BSA might work. They could then hit up a battery installer for a free battery.

Thanks,

Daryl

[Hikin’ Jim]

If you're stuck in a brushy ravine and cannot be seen from overhead, I for one would like to have that homing beacon pinging away.

HJ

[Bob Gross]

"If you're stuck in a brushy ravine and cannot be seen from overhead…"

If your position is that bad, the GPS receiver may not be able to see enough satellites to get a position fix, so any of these products will fail.

–B.G.–

[Noel Tavan]

I have a spot and I have no problem at all. I have had one for the last 3 years. The first 1.5 years, signals were horrible but they now improved the satellite reception and I can send messages every 10-20 min using the track mode. It almost never misses one. Very reliable.

[Bob Gross]

Noel, are you saying that the GPS receiver function had poor sensitivity for the first 1.5 years?

Geographically, where do you operate?

–B.G.–

[Noel Tavan]

Yes, I had problem with the tracking. It would maybe track once every hour or so… Now it does it about 4-6 times every hour. Very noticeable different, they probably increase their satellite capabilities or something…

Sending OK and Help/911 messages (never tried) is not hard to do since I can just let it sit when I set my tent and it will stop flashing when it has sent the message.

I operate in the northwest. Usually in very forrested area…

[Clint Hewitt]

Not Sure this is Covered I only read through first couple post.

The $100 a year for spot is only if you register it.

You can buy the device and use it for an emergency and they will come looking for you, with out a registration. The registration provides additional benefits like being able to notify your contacts you got your self into a pickle and use the other features "Ok Button" "Custom etc.

The Panic button will still work with out registration and I believe that if you register once they will have your name attached to that device so if used after your registration expires your info will still be with them. Don't quote me but I believe this is the case.

So the cost of a spot could be a one time $150, features will be limited but the ultimate use of getting out of a emergency situation is still available (Well at least a chance to get out)

[Clint Hewitt]

Other thing about Spot if you are registered and you push the button for someone that is not you, or some besides you pushes the button they will charge $17,000 to that person.

Some where in the fine print I read this over a year and a half ago. Not sure if it is current info or 100% accurate but read the fine print. You could be purchasing SPOT for a group trip and thinking it is ok to use if anyone get hurt, it is, you will just have to pay.

[Hikin’ Jim]

"If you're stuck in a brushy ravine and cannot be seen from overhead…"

If your position is that bad, the GPS receiver may not be able to see enough satellites to get a position fix, so any of these products will fail.

Completely untrue. Pardon my being blunt, but this is important. A PLB will allow your position to be determined regardless of whether or not it can get a GPS fix. On the other hand, your position cannot be determined via SPOT without a GPS fix. This is an important difference between the two products.

With a PLB, your position can be determined via the Doppler shift in your radio signal as a satellite passes by overhead. All that is needed is the primary 406 MHz signal.

HJ

[NoCO-Jim]

"Young Colorado Climber Killed on Little Bear Peak"
http://climbing.about.com/b/2010/06/16/young-colorado-climber-killed-on-little-bear-peak.htm

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