Ultralight Backpacking Ethically (UBE)

I think demonizing people due to what they drive is being pretty arrogant; nobody knows who these people are or what/why they might be driving a big car.

What about the Honda Civic driver that drives 100 miles a day, eats spotted owls, and burns crude oil to heat his home?

I think SUV's draw too much flak…
I happen to drive a semi-fuel efficient (by American standards- 25mpg) car- but I drive it 58 miles a day, 4-5 days a week.
What of the 8mpg HUMVEE driver only doing 5 miles per day?
Who's "worse"?

Assumptions, assumptions…us vs. them, in crowd vs. out, I drive a Prius so I MUST be more enlightened than you…

Anna,

Are you tall? Do you find it hard to fit in the majority of vehicles out there? I will guess most likely you have never had that issue.

We have 3 vehicles:
A 2009 V8 Titan king crew cab truck
2000 Xterra, outfitted for offroading
1993 Mercedes Benz 300D

Of those vehicles two are fully paid off. Being paid off versus buying a better mileage new vehicle is a huge issue. Why spend $20 to 35,000 for a 40 MPG vehicle when your paid off clunker runs fine.

As for our vehicles my husband drives the Benz as his daily driver for commuting. When he worked in the city he rode the transit for 3 hours a day round trip. Where he works now has NO transit so he must drive. Transit is a pipe dream in many areas and often is so awful and inconvenient when it is there. The benz we run on Bio and get high 30's to low 40's. And sure it is great "green" wise I suppose. But comfy? Heck no for tall people.

So why do we have an SUV and also a truck? Easy….we like to offroad, the Xterra is for that. She isn't driven much as she gets about 12 MPG due to her heavy weight (bumpers, full plates underneath, lifted, etc). I refuse to feel guilty that we enjoy periodically a fun family activity that others might not understand.

And then we come to our truck. We bought a V8 for its power. It actually gets BETTER gas mileage than the 2000 V6 Explorer we traded in. My 'couch on wheels', that truck is the comfiest ride I have owned. More so, it is the first vehicle outside of land yachts that fits my husband. We test drove many, many vehicles before getting it. When he gets in, you can still put an adult behind him. In our diesel sipping Benz no one, not even a child can fit behind him, the seat is back all the way and he has to lay the seat back back a bit. Our son has such long legs he cannot fit in the backseat of all high mileage sedans if the person in the passenger seat wants any room….

So we bought a monster that can haul 5 6'4" men without issue. And that can haul our gear for fun and for business. Big SUV's and trucks have a purpose for which they work well at. Not everyone wants to ride around in a tiny Prius carrying a couple tiny suitcases. I for one am just fine with driving a V8, knowing it can haul what I need. and I happen to like power, not wondering if I need to cut some holes in my floor and Flinstone a 4 cyl car up a hill…..

Then again, I have been a truck and SUV driver for so long I don't like small cars. Freak me out.

PS: That Titan? It has been up plenty of "narrow, rocky, muddy forest roads" since we bought her. Has more to do with the driver than the vehicle!

And as for the dream of transport that is magically green, only if you live in the city. No thanks on that. I'll take my country/hill billy lifestyle over that.

I love down. There is nothing like down out there. I'd rather wallow on natural insulation at home and on the trail than some freaky synthetic made of who-knows-what. I have down socks, booties, bags, jackets, sweaters…did I mention I love it? I love wool as well. I hate synthetic clothing.

Our cats also agree: down rocks. It is all their delicate butts like to sleep on.

Give me leather shoes. Synthetic materials only encourage blisters and stinky feet.

I wear wool socks almost all the time, even at home.

I enjoy meat even at times. I don't eat it daily so when I do I buy the best I can find – I prefer Bison.

I live life as fair and evenly as I can…but I don't worry about being green or eco-conscious by any means. All that is, is well a label to make one feel better!

Black & white vision and/or judgemental attitudes only serve to foster misunderstanding and greater divide within society.

I wrote a MYOG article a while back about a silk-shelled down vest. I've researched silks and natural materials for use in outdoor gear… realizing that they might not actually be the most sustainable method of producing gear. But there is some promise… I've also explored & written about the zen of backpacks… my undergrad degree is in environmental conservation…

I have two big dogs. I live as much of my life outside as possible. Gear tends to live in my vehicle. I take trips with other people, and gear. Many roads around my home (going to the places I'm interested in) are built around logging. It is quite common to see people with cars stuck in their driveways or in parking lots for maybe 4 months of the year. I used to drive a fuel-efficient vehicle. Then I realized that it didn't make any sense for where I lived or where I wanted the vehicle to take me. I drive an SUV. If I could get it with a turbo-diesel and get another 10MPG or so, that'd be great… but not an option I can just add in on my budget. Given the area I bought the vehicle for, the daily commute is generally 5 or 10 miles. Not so many miles a year.

Many aspects of my life revolve around sustainable life choices, philosophies, policies… but sometimes the benefits of a given choice outweigh the perceived costs.

Edit: Oh, and to echo Sarah… I regularly park my SUV in "Compact Only" spots that Civic drivers can't seem to fit in… it's definitely more about the driver. Amazing the places you can drive!

The fastest (social) changes are incremental. It is no different than the process for reduing the weight in your pack. Very few people can go from a 50+ Lb pack to a 15 Lb pack all at once. It costs too much, it is too much change for just about anyone to wrap their brains around.

I am trying to reduce my 50 Lb pack weight to 30 this year. Maybe I can get to 20 the next year. I gave up my SUV for a sedan and 50% (or better) increase in MPG. My wife and I both telecommute as possible. (She is 100% telecommute)

All we can do is make changes and choices that move us in the right direction. Sometimes we can learn to do with out, (do I really need a multi-tool AND a camp knife?) and sometimes we can replace with something better. Sarah's V8 gets better mileage than the old V6. Sometimes being green is about making good choices about what you REALLY need and sometimes it is about using the latest and greatest technology.

I have a 20 year old sub 3Lb tent. I am trying to decide if I want to reduce its weight (Ti stakes could save me 6 oz) or just replace it with one of the cool lightweight tents that people talk about on this site. Its not a decision I am going to make this year.

I think solar power is going to be one of the top answers to our energy challanges. (no one answer is going to solve it all) As James points out, there is a lot more to it than just photovoltaics. But even the PV tech is intriguing. Chad, I think your information is out of date. Some of the latest technology is manufacturing solar cells with "Ink Jet Printers". Essentially the same machine you have at home for printing from your computer.

The frustrating thing is that the gov't keeps changing the rules about how much is spent to stimulate this technology. When there are incentives, there is innovation. If the incentives go away too quickly, the technology does not make it to market.

In the long run, I do not believe Sarah needs to give up her big ride. We just need a better way to power it. We are heading the right way and if we can just keep our eyes on the prize, we will get there.

Balance truly is the key. I'm frustrated by the lack of advance in automotive (and motorized) engineering, too. The mileage of many vehicles and ORVs is apalling, given the technologies we have at hand. Case in point: Cadillac's big cars, like the Eldorado and Deville, with V-8s and plenty of horsepower… can get 28 MPG (know this through family). The 505-HP V-8 Corvette can get 28 MPG or so… but the Smart car only gets about 30 MPG… How smart is that? (Edit: Mileage figures from memory; after David's post below I went to Smart's website… it gets 33MPG… but city, 41 HWY with a 1L engine. Still pretty abysmal when you consider the totally disparate vehicles and not-too disparate mileages. Also double-checked Corvette: they've had a bit of engineering regression if my memory is correct, it's actually 24 MPG for the 7L Z06, 26MPG for the 6.2L 430HP base model.)

Ah, yes… when my friend bought his Subaru the V-6 was more fuel efficient than the 4-cylinder. Is it bad that he bought the more fuel efficient car, since it's more powerful? Should he have gotten the less efficient car, just because it fit into a false eco-mindset of "better?"

Just like buying a new tent. You have to get what works for you and you have to wade through the hype. Going to the trailhead, I'll take Sarah's V8 (or the V6 Subaru for that matter) over a Smart Car anyday. (that is a funny image, isn't it?)

On the other hand, the first website I found with numbers says that the EPA originally rated the Smart Car at 37 MPG, but has since revised it to 60 MPG. I am not claiming to have done any real research here, but I find the idea that a 'vette and a smart car have only 2 MPG difference to be less than credible. I would want to back that up with some real research before I started throwing that one around.

The problem is, to use a concept from this site, the Smart Car is not exactly what you would call "dual use". Unless you are referring to the fact that it only holds two people. If all you are going to do is drive it to work in the city (not unlike Sarah's benz) then fine, but not many folks are going to be willing to have this as their ONLY car.

(My wife REALLY wants a Cooper Mini, but we probably will never own one.)

The Smart car is hilarious. 28 mpg. Wow. My 1996 Civic gets 45 highway and 28 city. It also has a back seat.

Obviously, I did not make this clear…but I am not trying to attack anyone based on what he or she drives. Or eats. The point is awareness and progress. If you absolutely require a vehicle for your life, and you make your choice with the environment somewhere in mind, then good for you. My point is that we, especially in this country where we have so many resources, settle for the choice between bad and worse. A Prius may or may not be "better" than a Hummer, depending on the driver (how well he drives or how tall he is or whatever). We can argue all day about fuel efficiency, dependability, eco-friendliness. There are multiple valid points to be considered and no "right" answer. Ultimately, there is not even enough difference between a Prius and a Hummer to come to a consensus on the environmental point. To me, the fact that a vehicle that is marketed as eco-friendly, whatever the commercials tell us that means (apparently lots of dancing people in costumes), is not significantly different is a serious problem. My point is that, in this culture that has been built around owning a vehicle, we have learned to be satisfied with the choices we have been given…despite the fact that we also have the power to demand more and better choices. And, yes, it makes me angry that peoples' decisions are limited by the amount of money that can be made (by someone else) off of a product. There is absolutely no reason why there cannot be an affordable, emissions-free vehicle made from recycled materials that is tall enough for really tall people. Except "What if there isn't a big-enough market for it, and the company loses money?"
The thing that bothers me most is that short-term profit for a few is more important than the maintenance of our own life-support system. And we all go along with that to some degree. I can't figure that one out.

I have never driven a "smart car" but have wondered a few times if there weren't some auto design engineers laughing their a**es off back at the drawing board.

"My 1996 Civic gets 45 highway and 28 city. It also has a back seat."

Is it an "HX"?

Those Smart Cars are worse than a freaking Yugo or a Geo Metro! I could see owning one if you are single, no kids and live in a city with narrow streets. If and only if it got like 50 or more MPG. Our diesel Benz gets much better room and if I am driving it (rather than my tall husband) we can fit 4 adults comfy with packs in the trunk and still get way better mileage. Sadly though, those low slung German cars don't have much clearance. So low that on potholes often to avoid grinding, everyone has to get out. Makes it a super sucky vehicle for logging and FS roads!

I think more so the Smart Car scares me with how it looks like a toy car. It is so narrow and tiny.

Speaking of….a freaking Geo Metro got pretty spectacular mileage. Though they are scary little boxes to be in.

I will say that when we did buy the Titan, had it been available in diesel we'd have bought it without a second thought. Sadly though finding diesels in the US is not easy unless you want one of the very loud chattering Ford, Chevy, GMC, etc types. We don't. Outside of the US for example Nissan makes diesels. Most car companies do. The other issue is that the US made diesel trucks are on average $10K MORE than standard gas. Yech! It just isn't worth it for the trade off of higher mileage to pay that much more! So we accepted that when we bought a traditional gas powered truck.

I prefer diesel though, on the West Coast it is very easy to get Bio from B5 to B99.

To take this somewhat back to the OP, I see the vehicular correlation with backpacking gear in the title of this post… feature creep, cost containment, and engineering regression.

We have the technology to make things very lightweight (or very fuel efficient), but frequently those products which have the potential don't meet the potential. Part of it is pure and simple economics. The great mileage of the big ol' Cadillac is related to an expensive engine. Are you willing to pay an extra $5-10K for a really fuel efficient engine? Or, back to backpacking, are you willing to pay for a custom Cuben mid? How about life cycle? What kind of use are you going to get out of the product?

In terms of regression (and leading into feature creep), IIRC the older VW turbo-diesel Jettas got around 54 MPG, and the newer models get around 42. But then, perhaps IDon'tRC… (pretty sure I do though, I was going to buy one for a sales job)

I think that if our cars were stripped of extraneous features (power everything, computerized everything, sensors everywhere) they could be sold for roughly the same cost as a techy-engined "super" fuel efficient model. Likewise, if there weren't so many *&!! features built into backpacks they wouldn't weigh so much. Not to beat a dead horse (I might've mentioned this once or twice before), but my 30y/o Gerry 70L framed pack weighs 2 pounds, complete with metal zippers, leather patches, and packcloth. It seems like with today's technology packs of 1 pound or 2 would be nearly commonplace. But features keep getting added on… and there's the advantage of durability that some extra weight margin brings.

Just a few more cents in the pot…

"If they can just get rid of the theocracy…."

And replace it with….??

I'm an automotive technician.

I think what most of you consider an SUV is really a jacked up minivan. Most of them get pretty reasonable gas mileage. Around 20 or so. I agree that 20mpg is not "good" but for a 5-7 passenger vehicle it's not bad. Especially when you consider all the BS safety requirements the government puts on these cars, side impact beams, 20 airbags, active stability control etc.

Smart Cars are a joke. They only get 40 mpg have no trunk no spare tire no cargo space and no back seat. A car that spartan should get at least 60 mpg if not 80. Maybe with a diesel….

Hybrids are also a joke they only get marginally better gas mileage than their ICE counterparts and cost 5-20k more. Hybrids will not last they just don't make sense. Now a plug in hybrid with a dedicated electric motor and a small gas or diesel powered generator would be perfect. You could theoretically get unlimited gas mileage in something like that.

If you want a car with good mileage look to the cars of the 80s and 90s. Someone mentioned a Civic HX what a great car 40 mpg+ and capable of 50 with the right modifications.

But you don't have to get a boring old civic HX, I had a 91 CR-X si that got 30-35 mpg.

My 1985 mr2 with the original engine got 30-35 mpg too. I swapped a more powerful more efficient engine from a japanese market corolla and it gets 40 mpg now and revs to 8500 rpm sounds like a race car and is much faster than the stock engine.

"Someone mentioned a Civic HX what a great car 40 mpg+ and capable of 50 with the right modifications."

I can get 45-47 on the freeway if I keep it below 65 and there's no headwind. But you're right, Jesse, it's boring for folks that care about that kind of thing. Me, all I care about is getting from point A to point B as cheaply and environmenally as I can without sacrificing my freedom of movement. Only downside for me is the HX doesn't cut it on rough roads-not enough clearance. Not so good on snow and ice, either.

You left out non-existent ; )

Anna said,
Even though hybrid vehicles are a small step, we need completely different, efficient, quiet, sustainable, non-polluting, people-connecting modes of transportation.

I had a 1980 Buick Skylark I boughtright out of college that got 32-33 MPG. It's kind of amazing that new cars now get the same mileage. Sometimes.

"If they can just get rid of the theocracy…."

And replace it with….??

Education.

"non-existent" . sigh. …

Anna, there of course is nothing wrong with bringing up the conservation topic. It makes us think about what we are doing. At least you are being nice about it and not condemning that I can tell.

What does Anna drive?
Is Anna a traditional, lightweight, or ultralight hiker?

These are surely fair questions of those bringing up the UBE topic?

Strident self-righteousness draws lines in the sand, creates "us vs. them," leads to wars…

You dismiss other societies and cultures out of hand… they're "theocratic" and need "education," ie, they're ignorant.

I find it instructive that one of the two current theocracies (per a quick google to wiki search) is Catholic, Vatican City. Is that also an ignorant society?

Secular societies are not inherently ignorant. Striving to understand them–and in them, us–instead of dismiss them out of hand is part of the path to an ethical life.

"Strident self-righteousness draws lines in the sand, creates "us vs. them," leads to wars…"

Very, very much agree. Ignorance also leads to wars. Sheeple allow their 'rulers' to start wars. All countries – theocratic and secular.

"I find it instructive that one of the two current theocracies (per a quick google to wiki search) is Catholic, Vatican City. Is that also an ignorant society?"

Since you're asking, yes.

"Striving to understand them–and in them, us–instead of dismiss them out of hand is part of the path to an ethical life."

Female genitalia mutilation — don't want to understand them. Stoning 'sinners' to death — don't want to understand them. 'Honor' killings — don't want to understand them. Beating kids for holding hands — don't want to understand them. Protesting the funerals of dead soldiers — don't want to understand them. Beating a 'happy' man and then hanging him on a fence to die — don't want to understand them. Self righteous? I don't think so. Just tired of so, so much ignorance/hatred/fear the world over. Way past trying to understand any of it. That's why I backpack — I'm simply running away. Works for me. YMM, of course, V. If that lack of, I don't know, tolerance makes me unethical, I'm quite okay with that.

Note: I think y'all get my meaning of 'happy' above, since the ridiculously and excessively prudish filter has decided that the G word is profanity!

Of course they are fair. I will answer anything (almost…) I don't own a car. I bike pretty much everywhere and have chosen to live in a place where that is fairly easy. To get into the mountains, my hiking buddy has a 4-cyl station wagon.
I am lightweight, though this is connected to my bringing up UBE in the first place; I would love to carry a sub-10 base weight. Being as environmentally conscious as I can, though, is more important to me than shaving ounces, which is why I brought up the topic in the first place.
I will certainly not condemn a person, but I will condemn apathy, greed, and materialism that are so prevalent in our society…and the "me" concept. Regardless of who we are or where we are, every action we take has an impact; I think it's our responsibility to know that impact and know it effects everyone. It is not just about individuals in their own little world bubbles.

Would I say that the Vatican is an ignorant society? A city with vast riches that has spent centuries destroying various tribal cultures and leaving its followers in poverty, while they live in opulence? I would say evil, not ignorant. They probably know full well what they do.
There is, of course, a requirement for striving to understand people and cultures that is inherent in ethical existence. Understanding and not hating does not mean that you have to take a tolerant perspective of "whatever they do is fine, and I will not interfere or judge because its their culture." That is just a weak position.