Ultralight Rifle

I would rather carry a browning buckmark pistol with a SUL barrel. Forget who makes the barrels.

Either that or live with the extra weight and carry a marlin papoose.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/SelfLoading/70PSS.asp

That pounder is really a cheap looking rig and expensive. Guess it would be fine for a survival rifle though. If I knew I had to feed myself with a rifle, I would want something better.

My comments were made from the perspective of one with both decades in professional resource management in British Columbia, Alberta, the Yukon and N.W.T. AS WELL AS extensive experience here in VANCOUVER, B.C., where my direct family ancestors were among the first pioneers, in the private security field. They were simply FACTUAL and based on what is happening here and were NOT …racist… or …bigoted… in ANY respect.

It is SO easy to whine about "racism" today and it so often conceals a motive quite different from the one supposedly concerned. My CLOSEST friend, here, is a Hispanic-Asian, born just after his family immigrated to B.C. from an Asian nation; we just had lunch at our favourite Chinese restaurant yesterday.

I did not even come close to mentioning the specious term, "white" and my comments were based on a concern for the loss of the traditional freedoms we have enjoyed in the British Commonwealth and the U.S.A., ALL of which are under severe attack at present by both external and internal forces…..leading to societies more akin to those we saved freedom from 65 years ago. NOW, I am not going to pursue this, further, BUT, I WILL NOT be attacked by ANYONE on such a false and self-pitying basis, get it?

The comment about the rifle is based on shooting for over 50 years, owing about 150 guns during much of that time and actually using a gun for an employment tool. I also managed a retail gun store and do much of my own "gunsmithing" at home.

I HAD an AR-7 in the early '70s, actually USED it in the B.C. north and it WAS JUNK and totally unsuited for so called "survival" purposes. This item would be exactly the same and one reason is the difference in co-efficient of friction between the metals used in it's construction.

Anyway, that is my point and I will drop further comments concerning the very troublesome shootings here in B.C., IF, I am not subjected to further inchoate, untrue and offensive remarks.

BTW, in the event that anyone here is actually concerned with lightweight hunting and thus with proper identification of species.

This is a rather important issue where compliance with wildlife laws is concerned; the bird shown in the photo on Ryan's report is NOT, as his text mentions, a "Ruffed Grouse", "Bonasa Umbellus", it is actually a "Blue Grouse", "Dendragapus Obscurus" and is, while still a "Gallinaceous" bird, a different species.

All ya gotta do is Google Dewey's name to see lots of various comments on other forums…at least a few of which are less than flattering to people who are different from him. Since all his comments are based on "extensive experience", I'd never question anything he says, but…

Personally, I'm interested in the little pea shooter. Not something I'd get much use out of in New England, but used as Ryan talks about, seems like a reasonable tool…albeit one that may need a little tweaking.

Hey Dewey,

You wouldn't happen to be whitey…would ya? Middle aged plus? Fat head? Pretty sharp, but socially challenged? Lacking in the "finishing" opportunities that some rich liberals gave their kids?

Would you sleep in a bivy sewn by a non whitey? In a Hilleberg tent designed outside of N. Europe?

Oh, don't take me wrong! I'm just wondering if you have some of the same physical characteristics and ideas that I've noticed in others who write like you do.

I've always appreciated and enjoyed the experiential opinions and judgments that you've added to this forum. In the future I'll consider if your conclusions are soiled with bigotry.

I am susceptible to and affected by and struggle with bigotry. Mostly in unfamiliar circumstances, with unfamiliar people. I try to work through those situations.

Yeah, right, another wilderness "expurt" chimes in with an "ad hominem" remark, typical of suburbite wannabe-neverwere types from places where "wilderness" was destroyed centuries ago….reminds me of "Wiggy".

I would never carry a flyrod under 30 caliber.

sk, you are simply being foolish and, yes, MUCH of my gear IS sewn by people from different races, so what? MY Hilleberg tents, tho', were made in Estonia and they are as "white" as anyone.

BTW, the specific term I used, "non-traditional immigrant" was deliberately designed here to AVOID reference to issues of skin hue and other such "racial" characteristics and it INCLUDES peoples who are as fair skinned as I am….learn a bit, before allowing your self pity to so obviously cloud your judgement.

"as it is in the big seaport city I now reside in, with it's "multicultural" stabbings, lethal home invasions and shootings by gangs of "non-traditional" immigrants, allowed entry by leftist-liberal politicians and gutless cultural traitors"

This isn't racist. In fact, this isn't a generalization.

It is very specific to the geographic area in which Dewey resides. Before passing judgement, I encourage all to consider the current state of BC politics, the notable increase in gang activity and home invasions by effectively illegal immigrants, and to that point, understand Canada's relatively lax immigration policies.

Not once did Dewey mention a specific race.

In any event, lets not degrade this thread into something that leaves a bad taste in everyones mouth. Lets discuss UL backpacking.

"it's "multicultural" stabbings, lethal home invasions and shootings by gangs of "non-traditional" immigrants, allowed entry by leftist-liberal politicians and gutless cultural traitors."

My PC thought is this: If you didn't mean what you wrote, why use the words "multicultural" or "non-traditional immigrants" at all?

On the gun/flyrod, what pound test would you use? Or would it be what guage line would you use? :)

Let me first calm my admittedly quick temper and I will say that my comments were NOT intended to hurt anyone, here, or imply ANYTHING beyond what is HAPPENING here and thus to our traditional British-based individual freedoms, including gun ownership. So, let's all calm down and try to relax and enjoy the positive benefits of this forum.

I would not buy a gun like this as it is a waste of money in the "survival" circumstances and would also be useless for self-defence. I happen to believe that ANYONE has a fundamental birthright, as a human being, even we old whitey, fatheaded, socially deprived, etc., Canucks to self defence, using whatever weapon-tool-technique works for them…and, yes, I have "been there" more than once.

So, I prefer to carry what I know works and I like a 6lb. test leader on my Sage rod and my spinning rod as well. I do not practice "catch and release" due to being a very hardcore conservationist and I EAT any fish I catch, so, the stronger line means a more humane catch/kill situation, just as my .338WM means a swift, human death to an Elk for meat.

It's about factual reality, people, not about what one wishes life to be.

It's all about context, people. If you take long, unsupported trips deep into the backcountry, then such a rifle could make good sense. Think of it this way: one day of food weighs roughly 2 pounds. The rifle, then, is 1/2 the weight of one day of food. Add some .22 rounds and you have a day's worth of food weight.

A .22 is actually a pretty good tool for the application. If you were remotely interested in this rifle, it wouldn't be for hunting deer or stopping an angry grizzly in its tracks. It'd be for eating whatever you shoot–and a .22 does wonders for small game. Squirrels, rabbits, birds… and you have more range than with a shotgun. .22 rounds are also a lot lighter than shot shells.

If you're looking at spending a month deep in the north country, small game won't be scarce. This would actually be (much) lighter than carrying food in… even if you only counted on it every other day or something.

THANK YOU Brad Groves… I have been trying to communicate what you just said all along.

I keep hearing posts that point out how this gun is not enough to put down a deer or a bear… Well that's pretty obvious. It's a .22 for God's sake.

Why in the world would you put down a deer for food in a survival situation anyway? What in the world are you going to do with 100+ pounds of meat??

This gun is for small game, and at that weight, there is no other firearm I can think of that can achieve the same range. Every other gun mentioned as a better alternative does not even come close to how light this rifle is.

I've already mentioned that this gun is very obviously not meant for self defense against bears or anything of the sort. Like I said before, if you are going to be carrying a gun with enough fire power to take down a bear, you will NOT be going ultralight. A gun like that would weigh as much as my entire base weight. I, for one, am not willing to double my base weight for a gun that I "may" be able to get to in time when a bear suddenly charges out of nowhere.

I don't know what regulations would come into play but doing an unsupported wilderness trek and living off what you catch/shoot would be very interesting. I wonder how practical it would be to live off grouse, rabbits and trout for most of your food? It would definately be a unique "back to nature" experience.

Hey Sid you must have a pretty low baseweight! There are some pistols out there that should handle a bear for ~2 lbs loaded. Still pretty heavy to carry around though and no range like a rifle. Obviously if you were going out with the intention of hunting a bear that's not what I would take, but if push came to shove, that's all you had, and you scored a good hit (Or hits) with something like a Glock 29 that weighs 32.98 oz loaded you might be in ok shape. Of course if you miss maybe not. Maybe you could even consider the weight of the bullets a "Consumable".

I associate the following verbage with bigotry.

""multicultural" stabbings, lethal home invasions and shootings by gangs of "non-traditional" immigrants, allowed entry by…. gutless cultural traitors."

Dewey calls my association "foolish".

I identify bigotry as a personal, and by implication, (I could have been clearer), a human struggle.

Dewey calls that "judgment clouding self pity".

I don't have anything more to add.

You know, it wouldn't even necessarily be about "living off" small game for "most" of your food. Just supplementing could make a huge difference. In that hypothetical 4 weeks in the bush, say you only counted on 25% of your calories from game… that'd save you at least ~12 pounds from your starting weight (w/2 pounds/day/person, discounting 2 pounds from the week of food savings for rifle, ammo, and scope if carried). Savings get even bigger if you're going with more than one person.

It's not for everybody, but it does make a lot of–even UL–sense.

Anybody watch Alone in the Wild on the National Geographic channel recently? This guy set out just to survive in the wilderness for 3 months but he started with a food supply, gear, rifle, etc… He wasn't even trekking, mostly staying in one place but he still had to call in an emergency food drop after ~35 days I believe, then called the whole thing off prior to two months in as he just couldn't handle the sheer lack of interaction with other people.

Anyway, interesting how this thread has evolved from a very simple first post. :)

I caught a little of that show, I was dissapointed that it was in segments rather than in one continuous show. That fellow did have a gun and a fishing pole but from what I saw he did not have the greatest luck with either. When I go to the BWCA and am planning on fishing, I don't skip out on a meal dependent on catching fish. If you really know the area you are in that might work but it would be a big risk over a long period of time.

As a sociable person, I can understand not handling the hermit lifestyle.

My local PBS shows a program every year during pledge drives, I think it is called alone in the wilderness. It was a guy in the 70's dropped off in BC. It's a wonderful survival show. Definitely noit UL since the guy built a log cabin and stayed for 30 years or so. :)

I like to eat grouse. I like to eat fish. I hoped I would
get some ideas on how this might work for aquiring such
on a backpack trip. You know-some idea on how carbon fiber barrels work etc.

Nope.

I guess I will have to wait till someone
tries one and will give a more detailed report.

I saw the last show last night.
The guy definatly needs a tune up after that adventure.

I can understand extended solitude as being a problem for some people, but this guy went off the deep end quite a few times. Makes me wonder why he did not punch out earlier. All he did was cry the entire show.

To me it looked like he was so scared of a bear attack, that was really got to him.
Maybe he did not like being on the menu.

I guess I should not criticize the guy until I live his life and do what he did, but the freekin guy was starving, got air dropped a ton of food and he just sat there. I do believe most people would just dig in and eat themselves silly.

Also going into the wilderness on a semi survival type trip and having constraints on what you can kill for food is nuts. He had a solid chance at a moose and ducks, but he could not kill them.

After he punched out, when he got back to the hotel he just sat there like a nut. By the looks of it I thought he was going to chop up the furniture, build a fire in the middle of the room on the floor and cook a meal.

At the end he was staring into the bathroom mirror and half laughing – half crying, like a real nut case. He looked like a skinny Jack Nicholson with a bad hair day in the shining.

Here ya go.

Browning buckmark 22LR pistol with a Trail lite barrel. Should go about 1.5# and a really nice pistol.
Super accurate. One of the best.

Will shoot very very tight, like 3/8" groups at 25 yards. Its basically a match pistol.

To do what you want to do legally, of course you would need a hunting license and hunt during season. My dad and his buddies used to go on canoe and boat/hunting trips all the time and eat game while out. Of course they did it illegally off season sometimes too, but that was back in the 50's.

yea, he seemed to feel as if he failed by not supporting himself with food. however, he was limited as to what he could use to support himself. in the end the isolation and lack of a goal seemed to do him in.

i wonder if it had been a trek with obtainable goals each day if it would have helped.

i also wonder if his mental rationalization/internal banter is what goes on with failed thru-hikers who loose site of the goal. i can only imagine. but it did make me wonder.

Not to overstate the obvious, but there's a lot of inflamitory attitudes on this topic that are less than helpful (on both sides).

Whatever your thoughts on it, hunting with license in most national forests during proper seasons is legal.

Growing up way out in the boonies, my dad, brother and I would occasionally go out "hiking" (we never used the term backpacking) where we'd pack for a couple days.

We'd always include fishing poles and an old beat up single shot .22. Roasted rabbit over a hand made spit with BBQ sauce has it's place in the sport of backpacking much like those who would grill or poach a trout. It was never the point of our trips, but was an occasional positive distraction from walking.

Without handling the weapon myself, I'll withhold judgement on it. It's interesting on the weight front, but there are certainly other options and it has a very narrow scope of things that it can do, as others have mentioned. That said, for plinking at squirrels, I personally prefer a rifle's accuracy to a pistol, thus making this an innovative item.

For those concerned about it, a single shot like that usually isn't loaded or even put together until you've got need to load it. Like the old double barrel shotguns, keeping the gun broken down and unloaded WAS the safety. I personally would have prefered a traditional trigger gaurd and integrated safety, perhaps in thier V2.

I agree it looks an interesting idea. It may be just right for exterminating all those small, furry pests that have over run our native forests. Wouldn't be much good for a boar though, unless you could get a temple shot! For a fishing rod, you would be just as well to use a long stick found along the way.